'UK - Epsom college head Emma Pattinson, 45, found dead on campus along with husband George, 39, and daughter, Lettie, 7 - 6 Feb 2023

[annpats]

I mean, even in mental illness, aren't people aware of their circumstances, of external perceptions and repercussions?

Or these psychotic periods that trigger murder-suicide are so strong nothing else matters. Like tunnel vision.

 

[annpats]

DBM. Double post.

 

[iamshadow21]

Or these psychotic periods that trigger murder-suicide are so strong nothing else matters. Like tunnel vision.

For information about mental illness with a particular focus on a form of psychosis that leads to homicide, if you're up for the content, then it might be useful to come visit the Lindsay Clancy thread, where we have a lot of very knowledgeable folks, including medical people, and some posters with personal lived experience of psychosis who have been able to talk about what it's like for the folks who have it.

At this time, we don't know that anyone in this precious family experienced psychosis, so it may not end up being relevant to their deaths, but the thread is very illuminating about a condition lived with by many but little understood by the general public.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

are a few reasons but it seems often the husband/father decides to end their life and feels that it’s “kinder” to take their family with them and save them the pain and grief their death will cause. In their minds it’s an act of love, not hate. I’m not speculating

Quote RSBM.
If someone decides to take their own life and then that taking the life of their family is "kinder," that's pure narcissism, the opposite of love. It's the ultimate control.

And even if they try to tell themselves it's "love," they do know it's wrong, because they don't tell anyone of their plan. They do it sneakily and often violently.

I think it's more about not wanting their family to eventually be happy without them and to not let anyone else have them.

I'm not cutting them any slack - unless we're talking about true insanity.
JMO.

 

[I wonder]

I can't comment much, because I am absolutely filled with rage. I am overcome with anger. How dare people do this. If you're unhappy, leave, or take your own life.

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TAKE YOUR FAMILY WITH YOU.

 

[19thcenturynovel]

The Tragedy of Murder-Suicides

The Tragedy of Murder-Suicides

Eleven murder-suicides are committed every week.

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[SurreySleuthy]

Which brings me to ask, Does anyone know the particular culture of this particular school? I mean, in the UK, certain types of students go to certain public schools: Eton is not at all the same as Harrow, Marlborough is yet different, Winchester, too, Charterhouse, Rugby, Canterbury..... So what's the special niche for Epsom, except maybe for its shooting team? Or is the shooting team the key attraction?

I’m from the area and had an offer to go to Epsom College which I didn’t take up in the end. However I’ve been round the grounds and sat the exams / did interviews there etc. It’s certainly nothing like either Eton or Harrow.

I’d say it’s good academically but not outstanding. Good for sports and yes known for shooting (a friend moved to EC specifically for this reason). It’s also co-ed and a lot of the independent schools in this area are single sex (and actually a lot of the state schools are too). It’s also one of few boarding schools around. Incidentally one of the reasons I chose not to go there was because even the day pupils had school on Saturdays and 16 year old me was not up for that!

 

[wibbler]

BBC : Epsom College deaths believed to be murder-suicide

 

[ecology1]

Surrey Police is investigating the deaths of Epsom College head teacher Emma Pattison, her seven-year-old daughter Lettie and her husband as murder-suicide, the BBC understands.

Epsom College head called relative before she was shot by husband

Police recover a firearm owned by George Pattison who officers believe killed his wife and daughter.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[SurreySleuthy]

Edit as duplicate (can I delete?)

 

[Caroclaud]

Grim news as we all probably suspected. Double murder suicide.

Absolutely depressing.

 

[Teeniesmum]

Grim news as we all probably suspected. Double murder suicide.

Absolutely depressing.

Link to UK London Newspaper,again confirming Double Murder Suicide Family found dead at Epsom College 'believed to be murder-suicide'

 

[Teeniesmum]

Edited to Add, so he had a gun licence shame he shot in the wrong order.

 

[SurreySleuthy]

Edited to Add, so he had a gun licence shame he shot in the wrong order.

So it’s possible he actually had guns in the house in a cabinet then. This just shouldn’t be allowed. I understand shooting is a sport but no one should need to keep the guns used for it in their own house.

 

[ecology1]

So it’s possible he actually had guns in the house in a cabinet then. This just shouldn’t be allowed. I understand shooting is a sport but no one should need to keep the guns used for it in their own house.

And not just any house but one in a location where loads of children were living close by.

 

[iamshadow21]

And there it is.

I'm sorry, Emma and Lettie. This was meant to be a new and exciting chapter in your lives. I'm sorry you didn't get a chance to live it.

Sleep well, Emma.

Sleep well, Lettie.

You deserved so much more time to grow and explore and achieve and fulfill all your dreams.

 

[3point5]

And not just any house but one in a location where loads of children were living close by.

Fwiw, rules are very tight for how you store weapons and firearms. If he was following the law on storage (and you can get random inspections so odds are he was), the guns would be in a locked cabinet bolted to a wall, and the ammon would have been in a <mod note - fixed typo> separate locked cabinet.

 

[Teeniesmum]

So it’s possible he actually had guns in the house in a cabinet then. This just shouldn’t be allowed. I understand shooting is a sport but no one should need to keep the guns used for it in their own house.

Here in the UK, if you hold a gun licence you can keep you guns at home as long as they are stored in a locked cabinet, which has to be secured to the wall.

Edit crossed posts with @3point5

 

[ecology1]

Fwiw, rules are very tight for how you store weapons and firearms. If he was following the law on storage (and you can get random inspections so odds are he was), the guns would be in a locked cabinet bolted to a wall, and the ammon would have been in a <mod note - fixed typo> separate locked cabinet.

Yes, but this was a school, where many young children lived and safeguarding is (or should be) the absolute priority.

Even if he legally held the gun there and stored it securely, it doesn't automatically mean the school should allow it.

 

[SurreySleuthy]

Here in the UK, if you hold a gun licence you can keep you guns at home as long as they are stored in a locked cabinet, which has to be secured to the wall.

Edit crossed posts with @3point5

Yes I know, but that’s only safe if the owner of the license and holder of the key to the secure cabinet isn’t going to commit murder. How would we ever know if they are or aren’t? I’m questioning why any gun cabinet should be allowed in a house rather than at the shooting range or wherever it is the guns are used, where presumably there would be even greater security.