ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 71

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I am scratching my head at this debate re whether the intruder was a "coward". What does it matter? (I'm not picking on you, CGray123. Yours is just the last post of many I have read on the subject.)

If the charges are true, BK is a brutal killer, and probably a sadist and a psychopath. All of which trumps "coward" in my book!
Well I used the word coward lol... And I agree, a brutal killer too and the other names you mention but I think coward does play into this as well a bit and can matter because I feel that can be part of what drives these types to kill.

BK sounded very much like a coward from what's reported about him because his lack of accountability in life and hiding behind a façade. I think when a coward feels a build up of rejection, humiliation and perhaps not facing their life difficulties (financials, stress, etc.) they might either run and hide or it can build up for someone to snap. This is all just my thoughts though, not scientific or anything. JMO, MOO
 
Snipped / bolded for focus

Has it been confirmed that it was expanded to before given to the public? Admittedly have fallen off this case due to work in the last week or two, but I hadn't seen that detail.

IMO, they got BK in their crosshairs based on his white Elantra being registered to WSU, and then went back for further review to see if they could exclude his 2015 Elantra from the video, and then the investigator decided it could be a broader range. I don't think LE was intentionally giving out false info.
From the afadavit: “Upon further review, he indicated it could also be a 2011-2016 Hyundai Elantra. As a result, investigators have been reviewing information on persons in possession of a vehicle that is a 2011-2016 white Hyundai Elantra.”

“On November 25, 2022 MPD asked area law enforcement agencies to be on the lookout for white Hyundai Elantras in the area.”

BCK’s 2015 Hyundai Elantra was Located November 29th.

December 7, 2022 - Flyer released to public
MOSCOW, Idaho – Detectives are interested in speaking with the occupant(s) of a white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra, with an unknown license plate.

The 5th generation Elantra was model years 2011 to 2016 built on the same platform with only minor cosmetic changes. IMO the info was not intentionally “false”, just specifically narrowed but not actually exclusionary for the full range of the 5th generation.
 
Snipped for focus. That's your opinion. My opinion is different. I believe there were several inconsistencies from LE and their officials (JMO), including most recently, the Indiana police stops.

IMO it was MSM or possibly sm that initially reported/speculated, possibly from unverified sources, that the FBI had ordered the traffic stops in Indiana. I hold this opinion because I am not aware of Indiana/Idaho/WA LE officially releasing any statements saying the FBI ordered the stops. MOO. I would be interested in any link that shows LE officially stating that the FBI ordered the stops or any statement from the FBI saying that they ordered the stops, only to then backtrack.

The statement made by the FBI is correct, in that the FBI made that statement (as reported in your link above and many other sources at the time). Because the FBI released that statement, I believe the FBI didn't order LE to pull over BK in Indiana. I just happen to belive that FBI would not make that statement unless it was true.

I'm mostly interested in the offcial LE investigative timeline. As far as defense claiming inconsistencies in LE's communication to the public goes, IMO, only LE's official press releases and official reports would be relevent.MOO
 
Well I used the word coward lol... And I agree, a brutal killer too and the other names you mention but I think coward does play into this as well a bit and can matter because I feel that can be part of what drives these types to kill.

BK sounded very much like a coward from what's reported about him because his lack of accountability in life and hiding behind a façade. I think when a coward feels a build up of rejection, humiliation and perhaps not facing their life difficulties (financials, stress, etc.) they might either run and hide or it can build up for someone to snap. This is all just my thoughts though, not scientific or anything. JMO, MOO
There is also a distinction to be made, IMO, between being coward (as in an opinion of a persoan in general) and a cowardly act ( as in BK allegedly murdering people with seven inch blade when anticipating the victims to be horizontal, sleepy/asleep, and unarmed). So someone could commit a cowardly act whilst perhaps not necessarily being perceived as a cowardly character in general. I guess what I'm saying, is that personally, totally MOO, I haven't been convinced by what's been reported so far to make any assertions about what is behind BK's character, how he ticks, what drives him and so forth. I feel comfortable holding the opinion that BK's alleged actions on Nov 13th were extremely cowardly. Whether he was/is a coward in general (of cowardly character) in other aspects of his life, I'm not willing to judge at this time. MOO
 
I don't need to find links to info almost everyone remembers. It was the coroner who originally claimed "All the victims were asleep in their beds" in the same interview where she claimed "Some fought back." Posters at the time wondered how both could be true and now Newsnation is reporting they weren't all in their beds.

Furthermore, everyone else recalls how LE originally claimed the white sedan caught on security videos was of an earlier year than BK's white sedan turned out to be.

<modsnip> I said "I DON'T KNOW" if the defense will choose--or be allowed to introduce--such erroneous reports as evidence of confusion inside the investigation <modsnip>. I was asking whether any actual experts had opinions on the subject.

Coroner isn't LE.

No links because Moscow wasn't consistently inconsistent. Nothing for defense to present concerning this, instead, they need to explain a few other things concerning their client.
 
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Quoted directly from affidavit:

“Law enforcement officers provided video footage of Suspect Vehicle 1 to forensic examiners with the Federal Bureau of Investigation that regularly utilize surveillance footage to identify the year, make, and model of an unknown vehicle that is observed by one or more cameras during the commission of a criminal offense. The Forensic Examiner has approximately 35 years law enforcement experience with twelve years at the FBI His specific training includes identifuing unique characteristics of vehicles, and he uses a database that gives visual clues of vehicles across states to identify differences between vehicles.
After reviewing the numerous observations of Suspect Vehicle 1, the forensic examiner initially believed that Suspect Vehicle 1 was a 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra. Upon further review, he indicated it could also be a 2011-2016 Hyundai Elantra. As a result, investigators have been reviewing information on persons in possession of a vehicle that is a 2011-2016 white Hyundai Elantra.”

It was described as 2011-2016 for POI prior to request for info from public. BCK was identified as POI from that. IMO they described as 2011 to 2013 in request to public to give BCK a false sense of security.
BBM: Given the info currently available, it looks that way to me. Another poster on another thread briefly speculated that as LE continued in their investigation of BK from Nov 29th, they may have been very concerned about not alerting him inadvertantly. MOO

IMO I think it very likely that on November 29th or 30th,( IOW, ASAP), LE would have begun very quietly going around businesses and residents in the Pullman area trying to find any surveilance video for the 24 hours surrounding 4am Nov 13th that hadn't since been wiped. IMO, this is when they likley scored the two North-East Nevada sightings (2.44 am and 2.53 am) (PCA, p7) and and the five later Jonson Road/North-East Stadium Drive Pullman sightings (beginning 5.25am, ending 5.27am) (PCA, p8). MOO

pp7-8.
 
Harking back a bit to BK's eyebrows, whether bushy or not, I have decided (drum roll) that they are not particularly bushy, but rather his eyes are very deep set, which makes his gaze intense, and his brows more noticeable. Well, that's my opinion.
 
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I'm not sure she rationally thought about how flimsy a residential door is nor do I know if she hid someplace in her room but whatever decision she made allowed her to provide some insight and gave LE some information to start their investigation and in hindsight, it very well may have saved her life.
I don’t think she was scared at that point—just shocked at the unexpected visitor. Only in retrospect, did the things she heard take on a new meaning. JMO
 
There is also a distinction to be made, IMO, between being coward (as in an opinion of a persoan in general) and a cowardly act ( as in BK allegedly murdering people with seven inch blade when anticipating the victims to be horizontal, sleepy/asleep, and unarmed). So someone could commit a cowardly act whilst perhaps not necessarily being perceived as a cowardly character in general. I guess what I'm saying, is that personally, totally MOO, I haven't been convinced by what's been reported so far to make any assertions about what is behind BK's character, how he ticks, what drives him and so forth. I feel comfortable holding the opinion that BK's alleged actions on Nov 13th were extremely cowardly. Whether he was/is a coward in general (of cowardly character) in other aspects of his life, I'm not willing to judge at this time. MOO
I think of him as insecure and awkward—not as a coward—I think his mode of attack was designed with stealth and escape in mind.

At first, the overkill led many to suspect personal and targeted (Serial Killer 101) and at that point I believe LE was under pressure to “calm the public.”

As more information was gleaned from the investigation, LE had to adjust their theories accordingly.

In PR, we advise the use of phrases like, “We believe…”At this point in time…”Based on what we’ve learned so far”

Perspectives change as more information becomes available.

I do hope we eventually hear from BK and the information he provides is useful in predicting and preventing these senseless events.

Probably won’t happen in my lifetime, but I believe we will eventually be able to predict who is most likely to commit acts of violence. (JMO)
 
IMO it was MSM or possibly sm that initially reported/speculated, possibly from unverified sources, that the FBI had ordered the traffic stops in Indiana. I hold this opinion because I am not aware of Indiana/Idaho/WA LE officially releasing any statements saying the FBI ordered the stops. MOO. I would be interested in any link that shows LE officially stating that the FBI ordered the stops or any statement from the FBI saying that they ordered the stops, only to then backtrack.

The statement made by the FBI is correct, in that the FBI made that statement (as reported in your link above and many other sources at the time). Because the FBI released that statement, I believe the FBI didn't order LE to pull over BK in Indiana. I just happen to belive that FBI would not make that statement unless it was true.

I'm mostly interested in the offcial LE investigative timeline. As far as defense claiming inconsistencies in LE's communication to the public goes, IMO, only LE's official press releases and official reports would be relevent.MOO

"members of a law enforcement coalition investigating the alleged killer asked Indiana police to pull him over, according to a law enforcement source."

 
Isn't she underage? I know for a fact I would not have called cops in the middle of the night for fear of being busted with booze. IMO

No evidence she was drinking that night. But I don't think we even need to bring booze into it. For me, trauma is enough to explain why she didn't call the cops. JMO.
 
Opinion:

But the Indiana LE were not the same LE as in Idaho.

So now we have a picture of various "inconsistencies" from various, unrelated LE agencies. That, to me is normal. Inconsistencies are normal and rarely pose any problems in court (because raising them can damage the defense as much as the prosecution - in many cases, moreso). I think this is one of those cases.

Your argument seems to be that LE is inconsistent, rather than that "all human investigations are inconsistent, so we should expect inconsistencies." I think the consistency argument gets weaker every year, as more and more jurors understand what investigations are like - with help from the various attorneys involved. It becomes a matter of ordinary reason and common sense. If every LE agency across the US is "inconsistent," then what do we do about law enforcement and murder?

It's up to the jury to decide (and they do).

The early inconsistencies are all explainable and very unlikely to come up at the actual trial, as the defense doesn't want cans of worms. The Coroner alone is responsible for about half of these inconsistencies, and the vagaries of investigation for the other - as we're seeing in the Murdaugh trial. Inconsistencies abound, but the jury has to sort them out. "Crime of passion" vs "LE receives information in a particular order, gradually getting a full picture..." well, I don't think the jury will ever hear the phrase 'Crime of passion' or "targeted" in this entire trial. I don't know why they would.

Do you think that the defense will bring those things up? I don't. It will just make their situation far, far worse. They need to stay away from any of that rhetor.

IMO, IME.

It's behind us. The strategies for bringing someone to the court of justice are quite different (fortunately) from those involved in convicting them. The defense doesn't want to give any hint that BK could have committed a crime of passion - and if they choose to introduce that notion, I think his goose is cooked, because the prosecution has its own strategy for turning that around on him.

IOW, LE is not going to be harangued at trial; it's all about whether BK is guilty. At trial, IMO.

I do understand that some people are still caught up in the first couple of weeks of what people in Moscow said - but it's not going to look consistent to a jury. IMO.

Although it would be very interesting to call the coroner to the stand and let both sides have at her (if that's what happens). The medical examiners (from Spokane) will then be called and I am pretty sure the Coroner's "inconsistent" phrasing will go down the drain. But I don't fault her or the 'crime of passion' mayor, either. Most of us understand what it's like in the first days of a major crime (we just imagine it if we haven't been through it).

IMO.

That's fine. We can debate whether or not it makes any difference, whether or not it's the norm, whether or not it'll even be brought up. I'm not commenting on that stuff. I just don't think it's factual to say there have been no inconsistencies. That's all.

MOO.
 
Coroner isn't LE.

No links because Moscow wasn't consistently inconsistent. Nothing for defense to present concerning this, instead, they need to explain a few other things concerning their client.
One can say a coroner isn't LE in the strictest sense, I suppose. But assuming the coroner testifies during the case, I'd think she might be asked about prior inconsistent statements. And it would seem she's been inconsistent more than once. I wouldn't expect LE/coroner inconsistencies in public statements to necessarily form the majority of the defense questions in court but I also am not sure the majority of their questions will involve "explaining" their client. That would seem to misplace the burden of proof.
 
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