UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #2 *Arrest*

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I’ve been reading this since the start, after the car was broken down not far from where I live.

One thing that confused me is the burner phones and sims- these would need charging but I haven’t thought of a way they could organise this- even power banks need charging and being outside in the cold would drain the battery faster too
They have to have been buying food somewhere, so somehow have gone unreported for weeks. I think separately they are less recognisable than together so maybe they have separated a few times to pick up food, and also to use a phone charger somewhere like a public library or a coffee shop.
 
Is the ground frozen right now? I know Newhaven/Brighton are right down south, but if the ground is like rock, nobody's going to be digging it. The allotment at least, the soil would be loosely packed from being frequently turned over, so easier to dig under less than ideal circumstances than hard packed natural on the downs.

It's not frozen here in South Wales and hasn't been for weeks

I’ve been reading this since the start, after the car was broken down not far from where I live.

One thing that confused me is the burner phones and sims- these would need charging but I haven’t thought of a way they could organise this- even power banks need charging and being outside in the cold would drain the battery faster too

Theoretically solar panels, more likely they've found an outside socket. I've got one on my driveway and there's nothing really to stop someone from walking up and using it, if they noticed it and saw what was under the grey box. I imagine the allotment has some access to electricity for power tools, though my knowledge of all things allotment is quite limited.
 
Also if the pair were buying food supplies, this indicates they hadn’t successfully adopted some sort of bear grylls approach, and it’s unlikely they could both a) walk very long distances while b) surviving 8 weeks with only as much as they could carry

Which means either they were being supported somehow, unlikely IMO or they had been visiting other shops- more CCTV will hopefully reveal more sighting of the baby
 
It's not frozen here in South Wales and hasn't been for weeks



Theoretically solar panels, more likely they've found an outside socket. I've got one on my driveway and there's nothing really to stop someone from walking up and using it, if they noticed it and saw what was under the grey box. I imagine the allotment has some access to electricity for power tools, though my knowledge of all things allotment is quite limited.
Good point about outside sockets, I have one too

Even when frozen everywhere else, ground in woodland is often softer as it’s sheltered from hard frost. Very sad if that’s the outcome
 
If the baby isn’t with them then I’d assume it has perished or is left abandoned following their arrest.

I can’t imagine the baby has been placed in the care of a willing third party.

If that were the case why on earth would they still be living outdoors in the middle of winter?
 
There's also the possibility as other posters have mentioned that the baby has been left elsewhere on their way to this area, as they have travelled extensively. That really doesn't bear thinking about :(
They have been in this rough area since January the 8th, which it seems the police were pretty sure they had the baby with them and alive. Doesn't seem likely they have moved out of the area and back again.

Police seem to think they have been camping rough, rather than bunkering down at a sympathetic persons house.

So while you can technically walk from one end of this search area to another in a day, what would be a (not really but go with it) reasonable amount of time to leave a baby? An hour? A half hour walk taking into account walking there and back again? What do people think is a likely search area/radius for a (live) baby?
 
They have been in this rough area since January the 8th, which it seems the police were pretty sure they had the baby with them and alive. Doesn't seem likely they have moved out of the area and back again.

Police seem to think they have been camping rough, rather than bunkering down at a sympathetic persons house.

So while you can technically walk from one end of this search area to another in a day, what would be a (not really but go with it) reasonable amount of time to leave a baby? An hour? A half hour walk taking into account walking there and back again? What do people think is a likely search area/radius for a (live) baby?
You are right, if the baby was with them then, it does limit the search to Brighton, Newhaven and nearby areas.
 
I see CM as a loving mother. One who has made very poor decisions but a loving mother never the less, as evidenced by her desire to keep her child. I can't conceive a scenario where a loving mother, so desperate to keep her child that she has gone on the run, would leave their living baby alone to pop to the shops. Which leads me to conclude the baby is no longer alive.
 
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I see CM as a loving mother. One who has made very poor decisions but a loving mother never the less, as evidenced by her desire to keep her child. I am also a loving mother. I can't conceive a scenario where a loving mother, so desperate to keep her child that she has gone on the run, would leave their living baby alone to pop to the shops. Which leads me to conclude the baby is no longer alive.
Let's not go there.
 
I think some of the things seen have been so odd that nothing is off the table, including leaving a baby for extended periods

The plastic bag shoe coverings, a dress in February, the large stick which looks so out of place- I’m very surprised they haven’t been spotted sooner but lots of people I’ve chatted to are barely aware of the case, despite the coverage
 
I see CM as a loving mother. One who has made very poor decisions but a loving mother never the less, as evidenced by her desire to keep her child. I am also a loving mother. I can't conceive a scenario where a loving mother, so desperate to keep her child that she has gone on the run, would leave their living baby alone to pop to the shops. Which leads me to conclude the baby is no longer alive.
I understand sympathising with her, I do. However 'loving mother' and dragging a newborn into the wilderness and failing to get it medical attention to the point that it dies (and still not calling an ambulance) are two things that rarely meet in my book.

She may be a loving mother, but I think her actions have shown she is not a safe mother. If she gave birth in a car, didn't get a newborn to a hospital after a car fire and dragged a newborn all over the country before subjecting it to a tent for months in the middle of winter... Mental illness or other sympathetic motivations aside. I don't think leaving it somewhere to go to the shops shows much of a change in the level of harm she has been willing to put her baby into to keep it out of authorities hands IMO.
 
I think some of the things seen have been so odd that nothing is off the table, including leaving a baby for extended periods

The plastic bag shoe coverings, a dress in February, the large stick which looks so out of place- I’m very surprised they haven’t been spotted sooner but lots of people I’ve chatted to are barely aware of the case, despite the coverage
I’ve been asking myself since I heard someone did see them, would I recognise either of these individuals if they were say on the street in London (where they seemingly might have been going next)? I must pass at least a dozen homeless people to and from work every day. These particular two might look different to the pictures I’ve seen in the press after months on the streets. I don’t know if I would clock them, honestly. I would hope so but not sure.
 
And the large stick he’s carrying in the video seems odd to me. For what purpose? Self-defense? Hiking? Not very inconspicuous when you’re attempting to move about undetected.
I'm not sure if it's just me but particularly in the footage of them walking one way, he appears to be using it like a makeshift walking stick and almost hobbling. But then walking back he's not using it and seems to walk a lot more freely. Bizarre.
 
I see CM as a loving mother. One who has made very poor decisions but a loving mother never the less, as evidenced by her desire to keep her child. I am also a loving mother. I can't conceive a scenario where a loving mother, so desperate to keep her child that she has gone on the run, would leave their living baby alone to pop to the shops. Which leads me to conclude the baby is no longer alive.
I honestly don’t know if we have good evidence of the “loving” aspect actually. It could simply be a desire not to be controlled by the “system”, or control from CM’s partner, or basic disordered thinking, as to why CM wanted to keep the child with her. The apparent demeanour of CM when her partner was being arrested and the reported conversation they had about going to London (someone quoted it up-thread) don’t seem like a mother missing her child IMO.
 
I’ve been asking myself since I heard someone did see them, would I recognise either of these individuals if they were say on the street in London (where they seemingly might have been going next)? I must pass at least a dozen homeless people to and from work every day. These particular two might look different to the pictures I’ve seen in the press after months on the streets. I don’t know if I would clock them, honestly. I would hope so but not sure.
It sounds bad but I tend to avoid eye contact because then you just end up getting harassed for change. I personally don't think I'd see them if I walked right past them.

JMO.
 
I understand sympathising with her, I do. However 'loving mother' and dragging a newborn into the wilderness and failing to get it medical attention to the point that it dies (and still not calling an ambulance) are two things that rarely meet in my book.

She may be a loving mother, but I think her actions have shown she is not a safe mother. If she gave birth in a car, didn't get a newborn to a hospital after a car fire and dragged a newborn all over the country before subjecting it to a tent for months in the middle of winter... Mental illness or other sympathetic motivations aside. I don't think leaving it somewhere to go to the shops shows much of a change in the level of harm she has been willing to put her baby into to keep it out of authorities hands IMO.
I have not once suggested she is a safe mother in the slightest.
 
I'm not sure if it's just me but particularly in the footage of them walking one way, he appears to be using it like a makeshift walking stick and almost hobbling. But then walking back he's not using it and seems to walk a lot more freely. Bizarre.
Interesting observation. They have presumably been waking quite a bit; perhaps there’s an injury — or some weird mental thing about his feet. First the plastic bags on the shoes, now hobbling with a walking stick . . .
 
I have not once suggested she is a safe mother in the slightest.
I was more suggesting she could love her child but could (and has been) making very unsafe and neglectful choices in their care and safety. So while a rational loving mother would never leave a tiny baby alone to go to the shops. She by all we know, cannot be counted on to make rational choices.
 
I'm not sure if it's just me but particularly in the footage of them walking one way, he appears to be using it like a makeshift walking stick and almost hobbling. But then walking back he's not using it and seems to walk a lot more freely. Bizarre.
I noticed that too. Also trying to make out what he's saying in the earlier clip, sounds like "Constance, where are you keeping your..."
 
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