Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74

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Well that's a surprise isn't it, not!! There are certain questions that keep getting avoided, over the years, wouldn't want to upset the narrative, would we?




It's likely whatever was disposed of (possibly the shoes) on Batar Creek Rd was possibly removed later on. I mean they were never considered persons of interest in that first week or subsequent weeks. There's no way the FFC took William down to the riding school and attempted to dispose of him, that's the stuff of make-believe.

IMO, the purpose for driving on Batar Creek Rd was to simply remove evidence, it had nothing to do with checking to see if a 3yr old walked that far. Again I ask the question; why didn't she turn left out of Benaroon Drive onto Batar Creek Rd? If she was checking if he walked down there, why only right? That's why her story has never added up, nor do the time stamps or anything after 10 o'clock.

Have all the theories been tested, that's again, a $1m question.
TBH …. I don’t think even disposing of shoes makes any sense …. Because putting all of the info we have together… I think the drive occurred before FF arrived home…. And Police hadn’t even been notified at that time that William was missing …. So it would make no difference if he was wearing shoes or not… ????But this is just my opinion ….

Not checking left on Batar Creek Road, makes as much sense as not driving up and down Ellendale Cres ….to look for William … IMO
 
Where has it been proven he was roaring in that photo? Did the FM say that? It’s just a photo with his mouth open. He could be laughing or screaming out or even just doing a crazy face.
I don't know if it is proven that is what he was doing when the photo was taken, however the FM stated that is what he was doing in that shot during the 60 minutes interview. That was a "Rar"
 
When you listen to the MFC walk through video where he says he gets out of the car and his wife asks if W is with him and he says why would he be.


It seems like he is implying they are all on the back patio/verandah. The Ffc, the FFGM and L.

I find that strange that they would just be sitting there just as he drives in at 10.30/10.35.??????



I also don't believe that W was occupied for 50 minutes or more on the small back deck doing activities. Starting from 9.30 till 10.30. NO WAY.

Even the photos of him seemingly interacting with the colouring pens etc - appears like he is not really going to be doing that activity for any length of time. My opinion only of course.


So I wouldn't be surprised if they had a conversation with W on not throwing the colouring in pens, then that didn't really work so distracted him by mentioning the Daddy tiger roar. Maybe saying they would take a photo of him being a tiger. He had photo taken and then proceeded to jump off and run down the side of the house.

So disappeared at 9.45. - well went out of sight.

Maybe this lead to a stern conversation between FFC and W out of sight of everyone else - around the corner out of vision of the others. Something happened.

FFC came through side door and got FFGM car keys and took a drive.

Crabs heard a car about 10.05 to 10.10 zipping around possibly FFC driving a unfamiliar smaller car to hers and having a few issues. My opinion only.

FFC then return and is Back on the back deck before MFC home at 10.35. Just a possibility.

I am really struggling to back FFC version of timeline - because of the car journey and being back to have a quick discussion with her husband when he returns asking if W is with him. So then is any of what she is saying truthful and in the right order or events. There is a doubt there for me. MOO
 
Well that's a surprise isn't it, not!! There are certain questions that keep getting avoided, over the years, wouldn't want to upset the narrative, would we?




It's likely whatever was disposed of (possibly the shoes) on Batar Creek Rd was possibly removed later on. I mean they were never considered persons of interest in that first week or subsequent weeks. There's no way the FFC took William down to the riding school and attempted to dispose of him, that's the stuff of make-believe.

IMO, the purpose for driving on Batar Creek Rd was to simply remove evidence, it had nothing to do with checking to see if a 3yr old walked that far. Again I ask the question; why didn't she turn left out of Benaroon Drive onto Batar Creek Rd? If she was checking if he walked down there, why only right? That's why her story has never added up, nor do the time stamps or anything after 10 o'clock.

Have all the theories been tested, that's again, a $1m question.
I don't know, if FFC knew of an abduction and don't claim, she had known. But IF she had known, she probably would have guessed the route of the abduction-car and this route was to be avoided at all costs. Does that make sense, when we think about, why she didn't drive along a certain road but another?
 
When you listen to the MFC walk through video where he says he gets out of the car and his wife asks if W is with him and he says why would he be.


It seems like he is implying they are all on the back patio/verandah. The Ffc, the FFGM and L.

I find that strange that they would just be sitting there just as he drives in at 10.30/10.35.??????



I also don't believe that W was occupied for 50 minutes or more on the small back deck doing activities. Starting from 9.30 till 10.30. NO WAY.

Even the photos of him seemingly interacting with the colouring pens etc - appears like he is not really going to be doing that activity for any length of time. My opinion only of course.


So I wouldn't be surprised if they had a conversation with W on not throwing the colouring in pens, then that didn't really work so distracted him by mentioning the Daddy tiger roar. Maybe saying they would take a photo of him being a tiger. He had photo taken and then proceeded to jump off and run down the side of the house.

So disappeared at 9.45. - well went out of sight.

Maybe this lead to a stern conversation between FFC and W out of sight of everyone else - around the corner out of vision of the others. Something happened.

FFC came through side door and got FFGM car keys and took a drive.

Crabs heard a car about 10.05 to 10.10 zipping around possibly FFC driving a unfamiliar smaller car to hers and having a few issues. My opinion only.

FFC then return and is Back on the back deck before MFC home at 10.35. Just a possibility.

I am really struggling to back FFC version of timeline - because of the car journey and being back to have a quick discussion with her husband when he returns asking if W is with him. So then is any of what she is saying truthful and in the right order or events. There is a doubt there for me. MOO
FFC's timeline from different sources, appears to be, she noticed he was quiet approx. 10.25-10.30 am, she began searching the yard, house several times, opening every cupboard, let her mother know she couldn't find him, walked down the street looking for him, received MFC's text at 10.30 but didn't inform him she was looking for WT, went over to AMS house, got the car and went to look for him, all before MFC arrived home at approx. 10.35am

MFC's version is that he arrived back at the house at 10.35am after sending the 10.30am text and FFC approached his car in the carport from the carport back patio area.

AMS reports meeting the FFC for the 1st time standing at her fence at 10.40am, and being able to hear the MFC calling out for WT. While searching with FFC up until the 000 call, she does not report the FFC getting a car and driving to look for WT.

The FFCM reports that after WT went round the corner, it was some time so she followed in the same direction as WT and the FFC went and ventured further down into her front yard where she saw AMS on the road and FFC returning from the Batar Creek road end of Benaroon drive saying that she is going to call the police. She is not clear about when MFC returned or how he knew. I put a big circle around that point because apparently he is frantic and searching and yet she is saying that she doesn't know WT is missing until after 10.40am?

Neither AMS, FFC nor FFCM describe the MFC passing them on his return journey to the house while any of them are looking for WT on the street, so the only thing that seems to fix a moment in time of all four of those people is that from the information gathered so far is that no one from 48 Benaroon was seen looking for WT outside of the property until 10.40am.

I tend to trust more of what FFCM says in her walkthrough because she seems to more accurately and succinctly describe the washing machine repair and details around that to the detective than what the FFC has reported about that in media. It seems like, in media reports, the FFC has added responses from her mother to give the impression that she was not the only one who had become aware for a period of time that WT was missing. Her mother's publicly released statement and walk through do not confirm a lot of her statement. She may not remember everything but she seems lucid and accurate to me. MOO
 
With the Foster Father answering this question by giving the time, it wasn’t really for him to state … because only the Foster Mother, Foster Daughter and Foster Grandmother were there at that time (He apparently had been away … until his return at 10.35 am).

IN THEIR WORDS: William Tyrrell's parents talk of the day their boy went missing and the 'living nightmare' they endure

“P: When did you guys last see him?

M:
That morning, on the 12th at Mum’s place.

D: About 10.15am.


That's right, it wasn't his place. Originally in the footage of that interview the fp's were completely blacked out but you could see gestures and when the MFC says 10.15 the FFC leans in closer to him and gently says "no". In that section of the interview, it has now been overlaid with footage of WT on his bike and when people find transcripts online of the interview, the "no" is not written down.
 
So I go back to a couple of points...
It appears FFC became aware for a period of time that WT was missing and left the street in her mother's car, most likely before MFC's return.
Both FP's were absent from the street but nearby at approx. 10.30am... "cricket noises"...
 
FFC's timeline from different sources, appears to be, she noticed he was quiet approx. 10.25-10.30 am, she began searching the yard, house several times, opening every cupboard, let her mother know she couldn't find him, walked down the street looking for him, received MFC's text at 10.30 but didn't inform him she was looking for WT, went over to AMS house, got the car and went to look for him, all before MFC arrived home at approx. 10.35am

MFC's version is that he arrived back at the house at 10.35am after sending the 10.30am text and FFC approached his car in the carport from the carport back patio area.

AMS reports meeting the FFC for the 1st time standing at her fence at 10.40am, and being able to hear the MFC calling out for WT. While searching with FFC up until the 000 call, she does not report the FFC getting a car and driving to look for WT.

The FFCM reports that after WT went round the corner, it was some time so she followed in the same direction as WT and the FFC went and ventured further down into her front yard where she saw AMS on the road and FFC returning from the Batar Creek road end of Benaroon drive saying that she is going to call the police. She is not clear about when MFC returned or how he knew. I put a big circle around that point because apparently he is frantic and searching and yet she is saying that she doesn't know WT is missing until after 10.40am?

Neither AMS, FFC nor FFCM describe the MFC passing them on his return journey to the house while any of them are looking for WT on the street, so the only thing that seems to fix a moment in time of all four of those people is that from the information gathered so far is that no one from 48 Benaroon was seen looking for WT outside of the property until 10.40am.

I tend to trust more of what FFCM says in her walkthrough because she seems to more accurately and succinctly describe the washing machine repair and details around that to the detective than what the FFC has reported about that in media. It seems like, in media reports, the FFC has added responses from her mother to give the impression that she was not the only one who had become aware for a period of time that WT was missing. Her mother's publicly released statement and walk through do not confirm a lot of her statement. She may not remember everything but she seems lucid and accurate to me. MOO
Extracted from above:
"'Neither AMS, FFC nor FFCM describe the MFC passing them on his return journey to the house while any of them are looking for WT on the street, so the only thing that seems to fix a moment in time of all four of those people is that from the information gathered so far is that no one from 48 Benaroon was seen looking for WT outside of the property until 10.40am."

Was it to support the abduction belief that she experienced immediately, that the Fosters had expressed so adamantly that William was not a wanderer, that she held off until a few days before she decided to declare a drive in FGM's Mazda; whenever that actually occurred.
 
That's right, it wasn't his place. Originally in the footage of that interview the fp's were completely blacked out but you could see gestures and when the MFC says 10.15 the FFC leans in closer to him and gently says "no". In that section of the interview, it has now been overlaid with footage of WT on his bike and when people find transcripts online of the interview, the "no" is not written down.
Yes agree with your assessment of this interview …. And the above post ..

Is it all possible that the drive by the FM was taken at some other time that day???? And has been “mixed” into the morning timeline by journalists etc?

Is there any actual evidence of what time precisely “the drive by FM“ occurred???
 
Extracted from above:
"'Neither AMS, FFC nor FFCM describe the MFC passing them on his return journey to the house while any of them are looking for WT on the street, so the only thing that seems to fix a moment in time of all four of those people is that from the information gathered so far is that no one from 48 Benaroon was seen looking for WT outside of the property until 10.40am."

Was it to support the abduction belief that she experienced immediately, that the Fosters had expressed so adamantly that William was not a wanderer, that she held off until a few days before she decided to declare a drive in FGM's Mazda; whenever that actually occurred.
I think if your child did wander away that it is logical to get in the car and have a look. It's possible she did it on MFC's return but I think it's more likely that he would do it as he had just come from his car. If he was present when she went searching, wouldn't she just get in her own car? I don't know how long she held off for or if she was told that the car was seen so she said she forgot like a lot of other things she forgot that morning but was able to remember over time.
 
Yes agree with your assessment of this interview …. And the above post ..

Is it all possible that the drive by the FM was taken at some other time that day???? And has been “mixed” into the morning timeline by journalists etc?

Is there any actual evidence of what time precisely “the drive by FM“ occurred???
I guess the answer to that question is in whatever police document where the FFC said that she went for a drive. There maybe circumstantial evidence or an eyewitness that confirms it happened in the morning. If she was really muddled and mistaken then I feel so sorry for her because she might have shot herself in the foot misremembering that drive. MOO
 
I guess the answer to that question is in whatever police document where the FFC said that she went for a drive. There maybe circumstantial evidence or an eyewitness that confirms it happened in the morning. If she was really muddled and mistaken then I feel so sorry for her because she might have shot herself in the foot misremembering that drive. MOO
Thanks…. Yes so many vital parts have been omitted from the “story“ over the years causing confusion etc. … and Craddock’s style of questioning at the inquest did not appear to be “direct” …. (But I do understand how an inquest works and that it is totally different from a criminal trial…. ) but it could have been so helpful if he asked “what time did you drive to Batar Creek Road? “ ….

Jubelin states in his latest book that he knew about the drive and considered it normal behaviour, when looking for a lost child….. and continues to defend the FM publicly, so perhaps the Police do know the time of the drive???

However, for the sake of open discussion, if we extend the timeline from the time of the photos, as suggested by Nightrider, then it could change the entire complexity of the investigation as it now stands….

The infamous “drive“ as it stands now, IF, it was indeed before the alarm was raised by FM that William was missing, is probably the single most contributing factor in her being the current POI, when we look at it together with all of the other circumstantial evidence, as you have pointed out ….

All in my opinion ….
 
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If you tell a lie that's big enough, and you tell it often enough, people will believe you're telling the truth. Even if what you're saying is total rubbish.

Time ultimately will never be a friend to several individuals in this case. I would go far as to say, time is what they're afraid of in the end. If you want to shift the goalposts, it will eventually cause a domino effect.

“You may delay but time will not.” – Benjamin Franklin
 
....
AMS reports meeting the FFC for the 1st time standing at her fence at 10.40am, and being able to hear the MFC calling out for WT. While searching with FFC up until the 000 call, she does not report the FFC getting a car and driving to look for WT.
....
It is my understanding from what AMS has been reported to have said, that she and FM became separated for a time after AMS was told W was missing and before FM's call to 000. And when they met back up, FM declared about hitting his head, and it was time to call 000. Since AMS wasn't approached by FM until FD was already back at the house (and yelling in the background per AMS testimony), that drive may very well have occurred after FD's arrival back at the house. imo.

This is quoted from a post from prior member frogwell, who attended the inquest and heard AMS's testimony:

The way this evidence is quoted for the article isn't the impression I got when hearing it in the court. When AMS told the court about the FM saying "he's hit his head....................", that was after they had an initial conversation and both of them had searched to the end of the street, they had split up and then rejoined each other, time had passed and now the FM was quite upset that she had not found WT and that he hadn't answered. She had to call the police.


This is the article wherein frogwell was disputing how it had been written:
‘Somebody has taken him’: William Tyrrell’s foster mother shares grief over loss of three-year-old
 
It is my understanding from what AMS has been reported to have said, that she and FM became separated for a time after AMS was told W was missing and before FM's call to 000. And when they met back up, FM declared about hitting his head, and it was time to call 000. Since AMS wasn't approached by FM until FD was already back at the house (and yelling in the background per AMS testimony), that drive may very well have occurred after FD's arrival back at the house. imo.

This is quoted from a post from prior member frogwell, who attended the inquest and heard AMS's testimony:

The way this evidence is quoted for the article isn't the impression I got when hearing it in the court. When AMS told the court about the FM saying "he's hit his head....................", that was after they had an initial conversation and both of them had searched to the end of the street, they had split up and then rejoined each other, time had passed and now the FM was quite upset that she had not found WT and that he hadn't answered. She had to call the police.


This is the article wherein frogwell was disputing how it had been written:
‘Somebody has taken him’: William Tyrrell’s foster mother shares grief over loss of three-year-old
FFC and AMS walked towards BCR because of concern about fast moving traffic down there and AMS thought WT might be attracted to paintings on the bus shelter. They split up at Ellendale and rejoined there when FFC talked about his head and needing to call the police. It's possible the FFC got the car then however, no one mentions it in their statements. and why would she get the car, drive, return and then go back on foot to AMS and then walk towards 48 together to make the phonecall? If that were the case, would she not just pull over in her car and tell AMS she's decided to call police?
 
FFC and AMS walked towards BCR because of concern about fast moving traffic down there and AMS thought WT might be attracted to paintings on the bus shelter. They split up at Ellendale and rejoined there when FFC talked about his head and needing to call the police. It's possible the FFC got the car then however, no one mentions it in their statements. and why would she get the car, drive, return and then go back on foot to AMS and then walk towards 48 together to make the phonecall? If that were the case, would she not just pull over in her car and tell AMS she's decided to call police?
With the FFC saying … as per link below…. It is JMO that she is indicating that the drive she speaks of occurred before she called 000….. at least some time between 10.05 am and 10.45 am.

The 000 call was at 10.56 am SO , calculating time for accessing the Mazda and for the drive (there and back) at say 15 minutes, (10.56 minus the 15 minutes = 10.41 am) maybe this is feasible.

The vital minutes which could answer what REALLY happened to William
“After searching inside and underneath the house, the foster mother said she asked a neighbour to help look for William before jumping in her mother's car.”
 
This is from Dr Sleuths Timeline ….. however there does appear to be a contradiction with the timing…?????

10:30-10:56
"FFC ran to AMS’s house, asked if saw little boy in spiderman suit? , AMS said no, suggested bus stop on Crn Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd, FFC ran to bus stop , heard the “scream” , ran back to # 48 Benaroon Drive, got in FGM car & drove looking for WT, drove down Batar Ck Rd, thought he could not have gotten that far, went back to FGM house, ran inside & got her mobile phone, saw message from MFC."


From the above….
So after the drive, did FM go inside and get her mobile (and see the message from FF) prior to FF arriving home ??? If so, that puts the drive prior to 10:35am ????

Is the general consensus, on the thread, that FM DID receive the FF’s Siri message just prior to FF arriving back at Benaroon Drive?? Hence the question ”Is William with you??? “……. Or sometime later??


EDIT to add….

OR, …… did FM only see the message from FF when actually grabbed the landline handset and took it out to the carport to make the 000 call????

All IMO
 
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