Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74

Status
Not open for further replies.
I believe you are correct CB aand that one of the photos does show a dice in William’s hand … but I don’t have access to a blown up version at this time..


The photographs, tendered as exhibits to the inquest into his disappearance, show William with his foster grandmother and older sister surrounded by books and toys on the veranda of the Kendall home from which he vanished.

He can be seen playing with dice and leaning forward in his Spider-Man suit.

The five photographs, which include the iconic last one of him “roaring” for the camera, were shot over two minutes and 39 seconds.


BBM .... this seems to be confusing/incorrect!

The five photographs, which include the iconic last one of him “roaring” for the camera, were shot over two minutes and 39 seconds.
https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/neverbeforeseen-photos-of-william-tyrrell-minutes-before-abduction/news-story/7ad0e147f361195409d52850c11ad71a

JMO - Those photos are showing the times of photos to be: each photo is approx two minutes and 39 seconds apart!
 
IMO all the information of the morning activities are in the fg walkthrough however the times are all mixed up. If we begin from the time fc rang BS which was 9:03am and then received a call from GO at 9:10am this is the starting point. Roughly 9:15am fc took the kids out the front of the house to collect leaves for their drawings for Opa while fgm finishes up in the kitchen. All 4 were most likely on the back patio by about 9:30ish. L was drawing her picture when the photos were taken while W was more interested in playing with the crayons and leaves. L tipped the container upside down and dice fell out. Ws 3yo attention span was already looking for the next best thing. Whatever happened to W happened ON THAT BACK PATIO. It was fairly quick and happened in front of his sister (maybe fg was there maybe she was inside making the teas and saw from the window?) in her quick thinking the fc has picks W up and moves him around to the side of the house (where they originally say he was playing and roaring like a tiger). Was he roaring like a tiger or growling and groaning in pain? I feel at this point it all happened so quick that L didn’t fully understand what was happening or if her brother was actually hurt or not. Acting as though nothing happened the fc says W is quiet and goes around the side of the house pretending to look for him . 10:05am is my next starting point being the time fc takes her mothers car to look for W. Another phone is used to contact the mfc informing him of what has happened. They arrange to meet somewhere in between to hand over W (presumably not alive) and Ffc drives to Lakewood to pick up the prescription at 10:18am while the mfc finds somewhere to dispose of Ws body. They both return to the house within minutes of each other (10:30/10:35ish). Fc enters via Batar Creek Rd and sees fgm outside talking to AMS and mfc enters via the bike trail at the end of the cul-de-sac (hence why no one saw his car including fg). No search was done either inside or outside the house until the mfc returned home. Had AMS not been outside having a cigi and seeing fg walking towards her, who knows what time that triple zero call would have been made.
 
So you’re trying to say the photo is 7.39 because she has slippers? It’s very likely since she wasn’t that well she just kept her slippers on all day. Or changed shoes or maybe even went barefoot. I don’t her footwear contributes to the timing of the photo
In Lola's defence, how many of us sit around in PJs all day, I know I do.

The FFGM wearing slippers could simply be a comfort thing, I wouldn't read too much into it. Besides much more comfortable wearing slippers than shoes..
 
IMO all the information of the morning activities are in the fg walkthrough however the times are all mixed up. If we begin from the time fc rang BS which was 9:03am and then received a call from GO at 9:10am this is the starting point. Roughly 9:15am fc took the kids out the front of the house to collect leaves for their drawings for Opa while fgm finishes up in the kitchen. All 4 were most likely on the back patio by about 9:30ish. L was drawing her picture when the photos were taken while W was more interested in playing with the crayons and leaves. L tipped the container upside down and dice fell out. Ws 3yo attention span was already looking for the next best thing. Whatever happened to W happened ON THAT BACK PATIO. It was fairly quick and happened in front of his sister (maybe fg was there maybe she was inside making the teas and saw from the window?) in her quick thinking the fc has picks W up and moves him around to the side of the house (where they originally say he was playing and roaring like a tiger). Was he roaring like a tiger or growling and groaning in pain? I feel at this point it all happened so quick that L didn’t fully understand what was happening or if her brother was actually hurt or not. Acting as though nothing happened the fc says W is quiet and goes around the side of the house pretending to look for him . 10:05am is my next starting point being the time fc takes her mothers car to look for W. Another phone is used to contact the mfc informing him of what has happened. They arrange to meet somewhere in between to hand over W (presumably not alive) and Ffc drives to Lakewood to pick up the prescription at 10:18am while the mfc finds somewhere to dispose of Ws body. They both return to the house within minutes of each other (10:30/10:35ish). Fc enters via Batar Creek Rd and sees fgm outside talking to AMS and mfc enters via the bike trail at the end of the cul-de-sac (hence why no one saw his car including fg). No search was done either inside or outside the house until the mfc returned home. Had AMS not been outside having a cigi and seeing fg walking towards her, who knows what time that triple zero call would have been made.
Appreciate this is your theory and your opinion Chrissy,

Can I just ask a couple of questions about how you derived a couple of your conclusions?

How did you come up with 10:05 as the time the FM left the house in her mothers car?? (As the time of her drive has us all intrigued… )

and …

It has been reported that FF was captured on CCTV at the Chemist (CO‘s book) picking up his prescription …. And that his alibi was confirmed by Police very early on ….. If Police checked the CCTV footage in the beginning and saw that it was the FM at the chemist, and not the FF, then wouldn’t the investigation have gone in a very different way from the beginning???
So just wondering what it is, that puts FM at the chemist for you???
 
coming up for court on Mar 15 at 9:30am for bail review and 'other' mention

The court listing number is the same as was in January 2023. I would assume it relates to the lying to NSWCC case that was put back to later this year. Magically within the last 10 minutes, it's been pulled from the daily court lists...
 
Last edited:
IMO all the information of the morning activities are in the fg walkthrough however the times are all mixed up. If we begin from the time fc rang BS which was 9:03am and then received a call from GO at 9:10am this is the starting point. Roughly 9:15am fc took the kids out the front of the house to collect leaves for their drawings for Opa while fgm finishes up in the kitchen. All 4 were most likely on the back patio by about 9:30ish. L was drawing her picture when the photos were taken while W was more interested in playing with the crayons and leaves. L tipped the container upside down and dice fell out. Ws 3yo attention span was already looking for the next best thing. Whatever happened to W happened ON THAT BACK PATIO. It was fairly quick and happened in front of his sister (maybe fg was there maybe she was inside making the teas and saw from the window?) in her quick thinking the fc has picks W up and moves him around to the side of the house (where they originally say he was playing and roaring like a tiger). Was he roaring like a tiger or growling and groaning in pain? I feel at this point it all happened so quick that L didn’t fully understand what was happening or if her brother was actually hurt or not. Acting as though nothing happened the fc says W is quiet and goes around the side of the house pretending to look for him . 10:05am is my next starting point being the time fc takes her mothers car to look for W. Another phone is used to contact the mfc informing him of what has happened. They arrange to meet somewhere in between to hand over W (presumably not alive) and Ffc drives to Lakewood to pick up the prescription at 10:18am while the mfc finds somewhere to dispose of Ws body. They both return to the house within minutes of each other (10:30/10:35ish). Fc enters via Batar Creek Rd and sees fgm outside talking to AMS and mfc enters via the bike trail at the end of the cul-de-sac (hence why no one saw his car including fg). No search was done either inside or outside the house until the mfc returned home. Had AMS not been outside having a cigi and seeing fg walking towards her, who knows what time that triple zero call would have been made.
Knowing what we know now about the later charges and the wooden spoon, it seems highly possible that, at some point on the deck, Wm realized he was going to "get it" -- and he grabbed the dice or crayons or his sister's drawing and took off on foot to outrun trouble. He tears around the side of the house, he goes wide, he's running in the grass to the front yard. He tears around tight, he's on the verandah and gaining elevation fast. By then it's either a game to him or real fear (of the likes of an angry spoon). Climbs over the rail, launches over the rail.... accident like that could happen in an instant. Heck, he might've believed he could fly, jump, Spiderman it. He may well have let out an enthusiastic exclamation -- or a fearful one. Fatal fall.

A person has a moment to decide. Truth or no truth. Come clean or cover up. Instinct might've been to cover. Couldn't maybe accept what she'd caused to happened.

Red flag for me, she seems to have taken the car ride without her mother knowing. Returning after an absence and pretending Wm was freshly missing.

I think she chose self-preservation.

jmo
 
I am happy that we are all discussing this case again.

Things were very quiet around here for a while and I can honestly say there is not 1 case that I would like to see solved more than this one.

The fact that the FC's were given anonymity when William first disappeared IMO helped with a cover up if they were in fact involved in this crime.

Maybe I am giving the current investigative team too much credit but one big question sticks out to me:

Why are they so adamant that the FFC was involved in William's disappearance?

It will all come out in the wash in the Coronial Inquest Findings but surely there has to be some evidence they have that drives them not to give up.

Also, no date has been set for the findings to be released so it gives me hope that they are still working on "something" in the background right now.
 
Last edited:
Appreciate this is your theory and your opinion Chrissy,

Can I just ask a couple of questions about how you derived a couple of your conclusions?

How did you come up with 10:05 as the time the FM left the house in her mothers car?? (As the time of her drive has us all intrigued… )

and …

It has been reported that FF was captured on CCTV at the Chemist (CO‘s book) picking up his prescription …. And that his alibi was confirmed by Police very early on ….. If Police checked the CCTV footage in the beginning and saw that it was the FM at the chemist, and not the FF, then wouldn’t the investigation have gone in a very different way from the beginning???
So just wondering what it is, that puts FM at the chemist for you???
10:05 Mr and Mrs Crabb hear car stop briefly stop in front of fg house then drives off. Detective Beecroft also placed the time W was taken from the home to be around 10:05-10:15am.
I know it’s been reported there was cctv footage of mfc at pharmacy but lots of things have been reported that are not accurate. I know from the mfc statement that he was able to produce a receipt from the pharmacy confirming the time but other than that there has been nothing confirmed by current task force or at inquest of actual cctv footage. Having said that it’s also possible mfc was inside the pharmacy waiting for his perception when Ffc rang. He rushed off to meet her and she goes to pick up script.
 
A
I am happy that we are all discussing this case again.

Things were very quiet around here for a while and I can honestly say there is not 1 case that I would like to see solved more than this one.

The fact that the FC's were given anonymity when William first disappeared IMO helped with a cover up if they were in fact involved in this crime.

Maybe I am giving the current investigative team too much credit but one big question sticks out to me:

Why are they so adamant that the FFC was involved in William's disappearance?

It will all come out in the wash at the Coronial Inquest but surely there has to be some evidence they have that drives them not to give up.

Also, no date has been set for the findings to be released so it gives me hope that they are still working on "something" in the background right now.
Agree… their inquest is finished though is it not? I was under the impression all that’s remaining is the coroners finding
 
IMO all the information of the morning activities are in the fg walkthrough however the times are all mixed up. If we begin from the time fc rang BS which was 9:03am and then received a call from GO at 9:10am this is the starting point. Roughly 9:15am fc took the kids out the front of the house to collect leaves for their drawings for Opa while fgm finishes up in the kitchen. All 4 were most likely on the back patio by about 9:30ish. L was drawing her picture when the photos were taken while W was more interested in playing with the crayons and leaves. L tipped the container upside down and dice fell out. Ws 3yo attention span was already looking for the next best thing. Whatever happened to W happened ON THAT BACK PATIO. It was fairly quick and happened in front of his sister (maybe fg was there maybe she was inside making the teas and saw from the window?) in her quick thinking the fc has picks W up and moves him around to the side of the house (where they originally say he was playing and roaring like a tiger). Was he roaring like a tiger or growling and groaning in pain? I feel at this point it all happened so quick that L didn’t fully understand what was happening or if her brother was actually hurt or not. Acting as though nothing happened the fc says W is quiet and goes around the side of the house pretending to look for him . 10:05am is my next starting point being the time fc takes her mothers car to look for W. Another phone is used to contact the mfc informing him of what has happened. They arrange to meet somewhere in between to hand over W (presumably not alive) and Ffc drives to Lakewood to pick up the prescription at 10:18am while the mfc finds somewhere to dispose of Ws body. They both return to the house within minutes of each other (10:30/10:35ish). Fc enters via Batar Creek Rd and sees fgm outside talking to AMS and mfc enters via the bike trail at the end of the cul-de-sac (hence why no one saw his car including fg). No search was done either inside or outside the house until the mfc returned home. Had AMS not been outside having a cigi and seeing fg walking towards her, who knows what time that triple zero call would have been made.
JMO - This is all a feasible scenario ..... data from being able to track the travels of both vehicles via CCTV, etc probably wasn't done thoroughly enough early in the investigation, because the Fosters weren't 100% under suspicion at that time. Time has been lost to track that data now .... on the other hand, maybe the data has been 'dug up'!
Sadly though, no trace of William being anywhere out there has been found.
 
I am happy that we are all discussing this case again.

Things were very quiet around here for a while and I can honestly say there is not 1 case that I would like to see solved more than this one.

The fact that the FC's were given anonymity when William first disappeared IMO helped with a cover up if they were in fact involved in this crime.

Maybe I am giving the current investigative team too much credit but one big question sticks out to me:

Why are they so adamant that the FFC was involved in William's disappearance?

It will all come out in the wash at the Coronial Inquest but surely there has to be some evidence they have that drives them not to give up.

Also, no date has been set for the findings to be released so it gives me hope that they are still working on "something" in the background right now.

Perhaps Laidlaw chose to pin it on FFC because she was the one who spoke at will, MFC has always remained in the background. I don't fully understand why she's the sole POI.

It's healthy to discuss alternative theories and it seems more than ever people on here are willing to look at other possibilities, not just an abduction theory.
 
JMO. Strangely, each of the five photos appear to have been taken pretty well exactly 2 mins apart (Indicates possible downloading of them to me).
In the photo that was taken before the last iconic photo (Supposedly roaring) .... William already has his mouth open (Maybe to receive the dice in his hand):
View attachment 408950

Thankyou InFocus for clearing that up..... I would have thought that the once dice activity of FFC teaching him how to roll the dice was over, the dice would have been put away!
BBM, Could you please supply an image/s of what you are describing, where it can be clearly seen that there is approx. 2 minutes between every photo?
 
Post in thread 'Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72'
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

Post in thread 'Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72'
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

Thinking about the time of FM drive (assuming she did indeed leave the house and return before FF arrived home) as per my question above to Chrissy about 10:05….

The Crabb‘s possibly heard the only car that morning …. And testified re the times as above ….

Mr Crabb - 10mins after getting home (got home 09:30-09:35) so 09:40 -09:45

Mrs Crabb - 40 mins after getting home so 10:10 - 10:15

I was checking Caroline Overington’s Book for the exact time they heard the car …. And instead found the car had actually stopped outside 48 Benaroon… Over the years this has sort of turned into just a u turn ….and I had forgotten it had actually stopped….

From the book: Missing William Tyrrell

He (Mr Crabb) thought the car had stopped to do a U Turn or maybe turn in a circle before heading off again.

It stopped at number 48, he said, I don’t know for how long, about as long as it takes to put a letter in the box. it stopped, and then kept on going.

Mrs Crabb also remembers hearing the car.


Chapter 4, page 54.



I can see how Mrs Crabb’s time could fit with the proposed drive of the FM as per this earlier deduction …which does fit with time of 10:10 - 10:15…. And the 10min timeframe …

Post in thread 'Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74'
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74

However, either of those two time periods above, as suggested by the Crabbs, could also fit with an abduction, as both were after the time of the photos…

Hopefully this makes sense and the links work….. as it has taken a bit to put it all together…
 
Why are they so adamant that the FFC was involved in William's disappearance?

It will all come out in the wash at the Coronial Inquest but surely there has to be some evidence they have that drives them not to give up.

Also, no date has been set for the findings to be released so it gives me hope that they are still working on "something" in the background right now.
I agree DW … I also hope there is still work occurring in the background….

Except for Police (Danny Doherty) saying one tiny line about “new evidence” there has been absolutely no clarification on why they have focused on FM …
and to my knowledge no actual evidence produced…

It has been a long time between drinks….. (oops …. press conferences) and who knows if Police have even moved on by now??? Certainly in the past with this case, they have been quick to suggest a POI but pathetically slow at clearing them IMO

Or is it just a case of not hearing anything further until all of the court cases are completed??? Funny that doesn’t seem the same as other matters before the courts … we hear extra updates … eg the CM Case

It's healthy to discuss alternative theories and it seems more than ever people on here are willing to look at other possibilities, not just an abduction theory.
For many years we were unable to discuss this scenario as per WS Rules, as until a person is named as a POI, we were not able to discuss these types of theories …

I agree and think it’s healthy to discuss alternatives… and goodness this case has so many discrepancies to look at … and it is all super interesting to discuss….
 
Post in thread 'Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72'
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

Post in thread 'Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72'
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

Thinking about the time of FM drive (assuming she did indeed leave the house and return before FF arrived home) as per my question above to Chrissy about 10:05….

The Crabb‘s possibly heard the only car that morning …. And testified re the times as above ….

Mr Crabb - 10mins after getting home (got home 09:30-09:35) so 09:40 -09:45

Mrs Crabb - 40 mins after getting home so 10:10 - 10:15

I was checking Caroline Overington’s Book for the exact time they heard the car …. And instead found the car had actually stopped outside 48 Benaroon… Over the years this has sort of turned into just a u turn ….and I had forgotten it had actually stopped….

From the book: Missing William Tyrrell

He (Mr Crabb) thought the car had stopped to do a U Turn or maybe turn in a circle before heading off again.

It stopped at number 48, he said, I don’t know for how long, about as long as it takes to put a letter in the box. it stopped, and then kept on going.

Mrs Crabb also remembers hearing the car.


Chapter 4, page 54.



I can see how Mrs Crabb’s time could fit with the proposed drive of the FM as per this earlier deduction …which does fit with time of 10:10 - 10:15…. And the 10min timeframe …

Post in thread 'Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74'
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74

However, either of those two time periods above, as suggested by the Crabbs, could also fit with an abduction, as both were after the time of the photos…

Hopefully this makes sense and the links work….. as it has taken a bit to put it all together…
As Couldbe mentioned in an earlier post no one actually saw what time the mfc returned to the house which indicates to me he returned via the bike trail that leads to the cemetery and then Albert St. And going by GJ interview with mfc in 2016 it seems someone did see his car return via the track . HS/PS? HS left for bingo that morning at 10:37am
Fgm is asked by the detective during her walkthrough if she saw the mfc car (referring to seeing it come up the street as she headed back to the house. “No. I saw him before I saw his car”. On her walk back up to the house after briefly speaking to AMS on the rd fgm sees mfc frantically searching for W at the side of the house where he was last seen playing. Mfc walkthrough also describes the moment he returns to find out W is missing. So where did he come from? Unless fgm wasn’t telling the truth about seeing the mfc before the search began but I don’t think so. Why walk down looking for daughter after waiting some time for her return if the mfc was already home and searching for W. His 10:30am text and 10:35am arrival fits in with the time Ffc first speaks to AMS who she sees speaking to her mother as she drives into the street.
Ffc was gone for at least 20-25min. That’s enough time to leave W in a spot that mfc was familiar with and would then have ample time to hide his body somewhere else.
 
BBM, Could you please supply an image/s of what you are describing, where it can be clearly seen that there is approx. 2 minutes between every photo?
Last two photos in this collection:-

(DSC01104.JPG) Created 7:37:38 & (DSC01105.JPG) Created 07:39:39

These are apart = 2 mins 1 sec

Somewhere earlier, we have seen the times for all five photos ... including the icon photo of William
 
Last two photos in this collection:-

(DSC01104.JPG) Created 7:37:38 & (DSC01105.JPG) Created 07:39:39

These are apart = 2 mins 1 sec

Somewhere earlier, we have seen the times for all five photos ... including the icon photo of William
I'm very confused by what you are saying. If there is information/data that shows each photo was acknowledged somehow, 2 minutes and 40 seconds between each picture then would you please supply a link to all that data, otherwise, I find it difficult to consider what you are saying and if that info is available then I'd really like to consider it, please.
 
Here are 3 photos … I haven’t found the other 2 with created details as yet …
#1102
#1104
#1105
 

Attachments

  • E850E2F0-7861-4429-AECB-F04651530AD7.jpeg
    E850E2F0-7861-4429-AECB-F04651530AD7.jpeg
    120.2 KB · Views: 10
  • A1581208-2460-4D79-8B55-78B348780210.jpeg
    A1581208-2460-4D79-8B55-78B348780210.jpeg
    128.1 KB · Views: 10
  • 1D4267A5-9A71-4C5D-8AED-EE73017EED78.jpeg
    1D4267A5-9A71-4C5D-8AED-EE73017EED78.jpeg
    125.6 KB · Views: 10

Attachments

  • A644E4FF-B1C6-4CFD-A929-99540FF4997D.jpeg
    A644E4FF-B1C6-4CFD-A929-99540FF4997D.jpeg
    110.8 KB · Views: 5
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
159
Guests online
964
Total visitors
1,123

Forum statistics

Threads
589,935
Messages
17,927,879
Members
228,005
Latest member
vigilandy
Back
Top