4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 75

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

He also could have crashed one of their parties by pretending to be Door Dash with a pizza. Who knows who ordered anything at some wild college party? JMO

If the order was set to be leave at door, he could have seen it being left and just taken it in while pretending to be DD.
He could have done this anytime an order had been left at door to be honest.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

That's ok. I graduated prior to COVID which did change everything. I know that back in my studies, this would have been very unusual. Nowadays, people do study online. I only find it unusual because we know that Kaylee was there at least part of the semester (usually semesters run August - December) because of the police call to the house where she answered the door on August 16th and the alleged incident at the vape shop in October.

Video shows Kaylee Goncalves speaking with cops 3 months before Idaho murders

Slain University of Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves is seen in newly released police video speaking to cops after neighbors complained about noise — three months before her and her roommates&#…

nypost.com

Kaylee Goncalves warned about stalker three weeks before her murder

A shopkeeper who knew Kaylee Goncalves, one of four Idaho University students murdered on November 23, claimed she had "tons of issues" with a stalker.

www.newsweek.com

So why she went home is a mystery to me. It could be to spend time with family. Or maybe she was spooked. I, personally, believe that some people have strong intuition. Maybe she knew there was danger. Maybe her complaining of a stalker was because she sensed BK. Or maybe there's something more. Who knows.

MOO.

I was thinking maybe as she was in her last semester, maybe she only had a couple of classes. I WAS in my last semester right now (I've decided to do an honours thesis), and by talking to my profs, I could easily have left two weeks ago (mid-term)
and still have completed what was left online.

 

[schooling]

Police said Kohberger applied for an internship with the Pullman police in the fall of 2022. In an essay he said he wanted to help "rural law enforcement agencies with how to better collect and analyze technological data in public safety operations," according to court documents.
Idaho murders: Roommate saw killer in mask leaving the house, docs say

What in his background provided him with knowledge on analyzing IT data? If he's internet savvy, maybe he developed a backdoor into DD. I can't wait for the day when all of these warrants make sense.

You guys have likely discussed his SteptoeVillage apt.

"The university provides TV, Internet, water, sewer, garbage, steam heat and hot water. The resident is responsible for electricity and phone service. Residents have access to the city bus routes through bus stops located near SteptoeVillage. Graduate students can only select the one and two bedroom flats in this complex."

BK resided at this apt. for free by only paying for the electricity he used?
https://housing.wsu.edu/apartments/steptoe-village/

Tech executive here.

Chances are close to 0%, IMO. He has nothing reported in his history so far that would indicate he's capable of pulling off a 0day exploit to get into the back door of DoorDash. We are talking less than .01% of the population here.

Did he steal someones password? Impersonate someone? I dont think so...but at least that has a greater than 1% chance.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

Tech executive here.

Chances are close to 0%, IMO. He has nothing reported in his history so far that would indicate he's capable of pulling off a 0day exploit to get into the back door of DoorDash. We are talking less than .01% of the population here.

Did he steal someones password? Impersonate someone? I dont think so...but at least that has a greater than 1% chance.

MOO

Also, isn't the whole thing of a back door is that it's basically a 'secret' way into the system left by the original programmers? A hacker can exploit one, but can't create one, as far as I know. Semantics, probably, but I think it's a distinction worth pointing out. @schooling , feel free to school me if I'm dead wrong.

I am not a programmer, nor do I play one on tv, but my biological father, uncle, and both my brothers all work/have worked in IT and programming, so you pick up bits just being around them.

MOO

 

[schooling]

Also, isn't the whole thing of a back door is that it's basically a 'secret' way into the system left by the original programmers? A hacker can exploit one, but can't create one, as far as I know. Semantics, probably, but I think it's a distinction worth pointing out.

I am not a programmer, nor do I play one on tv, but my biological father, uncle, and both my brothers all work/have worked in IT and programming, so you pick up bits just being around them.

MOO

A 0 day exploit into DoorDash would be worth millions of dollars. They are likely facing hundreds of attacks a day by some of the best hackers in the world.

I'm been in tech for 15 years, I'm a full stack programmer but prefer front end Javascript, have been at a company that was hacked and helped with the fallout.

Bryan is not finding a DoorDash exploit. We'll just have to disagree on that one.

 

[iamshadow21]

A 0 day exploit into DoorDash would be worth millions of dollars. They are likely facing hundreds of attacks a day by some of the best hackers in the world.

I'm been in tech for 15 years, I'm a full stack programmer but prefer front end Javascript, have been at a company that was hacked and helped with the fallout.

Bryan is not finding a DoorDash exploit. We'll just have to disagree on that one.

No, I agree with you. I wasn't saying it was in any way possible for BK to get into Door Dash.

I was just saying that you can't create a back door in a system from the outside, as far as I know.

If you scroll back to where I posted the link to BK's course list, I said I didn't think it possible for him to hack DD with his qualifications.

MOO

(Edited for clarity)

 

[schooling]

No, I agree with you. I wasn't saying it was in any way possible for BK to get into Door Dash.

I was just saying that you can't create a back door in a system from the outside, as far as I know.

If you scroll back to where I posted the link to BK's course list, I said I didn't think it possible for him to hack DD with his qualifications.

MOO

(Edited for clarity)

via an exploit, sure.

But exploits go for millions of dollars on the blackmarket. they are worth 10s of millions of dollars if you go the ransomware route.

2 years ago both Apple and Salesforce paid out $20 million dollars to a bunch of elite hacking groups to find bugs in their systems via their bug Bounty Program. You could become a millionaire pretty quickly if you knew what you were doing on either side of the hacking coin.

I think people (not you, I've seen others suggest this) hear about Facebook accounts getting hacked and think breaking into a system is just as easy. Your Facebook account is protected by your 8 digit password. DoorDash is protected by 500 developers constantly releasing code, a giant QA team checking the code before it goes out the door, multiple layers of security, including systems protected by encrypted keys that no computer can break.

If I was to entertain this thought for a second....could BK pull social engineering? Does BK have enough of a personality to use the combination of a phone and email and convince an employee to give them user name and password credentials and let them through the front door? that's how DoorDash was hacked in 2022. that's the 1% chance I gave up above because that's only part of the equation.

MOO.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

What in his background provided him with knowledge on analyzing IT data? If he's internet savvy, maybe he developed a backdoor into DD. I can't wait for the day when all of these warrants make sense

RSBM
This is where I have been for a long time regarding his knowledge of digital data. He had interests in digital evidence and forensics. If I were LE and knew this, I would use every cyber/digital/data expert I could find and pursue any warrants regarding that avenue.
If my nine-year-old can code an app for a coding class, I'm pretty sure BK could code or hack apps.
Very much JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

If I was to entertain this thought for a second....could BK pull social engineering? Does BK have enough of a personality to use the combination of a phone and email and convince an employee to give them user name and password credentials and let them through the front door? that's how DoorDash was hacked in 2022. that's the 1% chance I gave up above because that's only part of the equation.

MOO.

RSBM

If he has to rely on his personality, I think he's out of luck.

MOO

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

via an exploit, sure.

But exploits go for millions of dollars on the blackmarket. they are worth 10s of millions of dollars if you go the ransomware route.

2 years ago both Apple and Salesforce paid out $20 million dollars to a bunch of elite hacking groups to find bugs in their systems via their bug Bounty Program. You could become a millionaire pretty quickly if you knew what you were doing on either side of the hacking coin.

I think people (not you, I've seen others suggest this) hear about Facebook accounts getting hacked and think breaking into a system is just as easy. Your Facebook account is protected by your 8 digit password. DoorDash is protected by 500 developers constantly releasing code, a giant QA team checking the code before it goes out the door, multiple layers of security, including systems protected by encrypted keys that no computer can break.

If I was to entertain this thought for a second....could BK pull social engineering? Does BK have enough of a personality to use the combination of a phone and email and convince an employee to give them user name and password credentials and let them through the front door? that's how DoorDash was hacked in 2022. that's the 1% chance I gave up above because that's only part of the equation.

MOO.

RBBM.
What if that is the connection? The expansive DD search and 'getting through the front door'.
If all he had to do was message, email and phone, no in-person social awkwardness.
People make 'online' personas all the time.

 

[iamshadow21]

RBBM.
What if that is the connection? The expansive DD search and 'getting through the front door'.
If all he had to do was message, email and phone, no in-person social awkwardness.
People make 'online' personas all the time.

I think the problem I have with the subterfuge theory is that nothing else we have seen from this case has suggested any degree of complexity, planning or forethought beyond 'watch a house of young people on and off for a while, late at night, then break in while they're sleeping and kill them'. This wasn't a diamond heist or a confidence trick. It was brutal, sloppy, and in my opinion, solitary.

MOO

 

[Idaho transplant]

RSBM
This is where I have been for a long time regarding his knowledge of digital data. He had interests in digital evidence and forensics. If I were LE and knew this, I would use every cyber/digital/data expert I could find and pursue any warrants regarding that avenue.
If my nine-year-old can code an app for a coding class, I'm pretty sure BK could code or hack apps.
Very much JMO

“(DeSales University has) an entire house, they call it the crime scene house, that is used for simulations, for crime scene investigation or collecting evidence or crime scene photography or responding to other emergencies."
According to court documents, Kohberger’s criminal justice studies were important enough for detectives to investigate. While executing a search warrant at Kohberger’s parents’ home, investigators recovered a criminal psychology book and DeSales University documents.

I wonder how that 'crime scene house' compares to the Moscow crime scene house.

 

[Boxer]

MOO maybe the police want to ask relevant DDs for dash cam footage if they have it.
Those Dadhers would not know they may have filmed BK during his many visits to the house area.

 

[iamshadow21]

“(DeSales University has) an entire house, they call it the crime scene house, that is used for simulations, for crime scene investigation or collecting evidence or crime scene photography or responding to other emergencies."
According to court documents, Kohberger’s criminal justice studies were important enough for detectives to investigate. While executing a search warrant at Kohberger’s parents’ home, investigators recovered a criminal psychology book and DeSales University documents.

I wonder how that 'crime scene house' compares to the Moscow crime scene house.

I suspect the 'crime scene house' is like Frances Glessner Lee's nutshell studies, but at 1:1 scale. To get an idea what that might be like, I think you see this kind of thing in an educational setting in Elisabeth Shue's first episode of CSI (bearing in mind that that is a fictional setting and show). Her character is teaching students about crime scene investigation, it's her 'character introduction reveal'.

The advantage of having a whole house for this is, presumably, you can set it up countless times with endless variations to show different crimes and presentations of suspicious death. It's like a stage set.

MOO

 

[jepop]

Uni. Students w Several Bank A/Cs? Remember Those Free Toasters Ads?

snipped by me. @BeginnerSleuther Yes, weird.
Good question and undoubtedly several things factoring in to each having multiple a/c's, and overlapping w same banks as the others. The amt of money in the a/c's or student/family's net worth is likely irrelevant imo.

I have not followed detail on the ^ banks or a/c's, but suspect some may have been opened w INCENTIVES like these:
"Enjoy 20% off your purchase of $*advertiser censored* or more, when you open a __ a/c."
"You'll save $25 on your monthly cell phone plan for opening a ____ a/c."

Think: college student (esp'ly female?) group-shopping for clothes. Who's gonna pass this ^ up? Could be SINGLE transaction a/c, good for student, not good for bank.

May be offered by e-tailers or sticks & bricks merchants of products or provider of services. Or by banks themselves, in co-op w these entities.

May explain a few (not all) of those seemingly high numbers of a/c's. jmo

_____________________________________________
Anyone remember bank ads for a free toaster for opening a savings acct? Actually a different rationale than these current incentives, but looking back, makes some sense.
For those too young to recall, or anyone who wants to reminisce.
2009 article goes back 30 yrs: "Why Banks Used To Give Out Toasters"

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-banks-used-to-give-out-toasters-2009-3o

@al66pine Do you think it is at all possible that the financial warrants for the 4 victims and the redacteds do not necessarily mean that all these individuals had accounts at all those financial institutions? I've attempted some research on this myself (upthread) but you seem more research savvy than me! How does LE/financial expert from FBI go about tracing and tracking the financial transactions of a bunch of people at once and quickly? Is it possible the warrants for financial records of these people could be granted without each individual necessarily having a carded account with the institution? One poster upthread here has even calculated probability and pointed out the odds of all these individuals having accounts with all these same financial institutions is astronomically low. I think there is a simpler explanation personally. Asking you because you because I see you as being very good at reseearch IMO.

Please feel free to ignore ofcourse!

 

[jepop]

I was just reading an article on IMEI-I was trying to find out if BK could have tracked any of the victims phones without having to download an app onto their phones and in my search found out about IMEI. I never knew about this IMEI, but there are cell phone tracking websites where you can use a persons IMEI to track their phone. I was trying to do a bit of “sleuthing” but I failed! I looked into one of the companies that had a warrant served, “Extreme Networks” to possibly see if BK could have used this business in any way to track any of the victims. The technology is way over my head!

I don't know much re IMEI numbers but Extreme Networks was Kaylee's new place of employment ? from what I understand. The warrant was for an encrypted laptop there. MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

I don't know much re IMEI numbers but Extreme Networks was Kaylee's new place of employment ? from what I understand. The warrant was for an encrypted laptop there. MOO

Yep.

Here's a link to a point in the threads where Kaylee's employment with Extreme was discussed:

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

 

[jepop]

Yep.

Here's a link to a point in the threads where Kaylee's employment with Extreme was discussed:

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 36

Thank you. You probably put relevant links in your earlier post about this, but I went and had a read of thread 36 there (I didn't join here until Jan but was lurking and reading before that). From what I read there, KG commenced a paid internship with Extreme Networks in June 2022 with employment to commence in Jan. MOO your premise makes perfect sense to me regarding the likely reasons (internship, future employment, spending time with familiy) KG had left the Moscow student house by Nov 13th.

 

[al66pine]

Student/Victims' Multiple Bank A/C's Overlapping Each Other???

@al66pine Do you think it is at all possible that the financial warrants for the 4 victims and the redacteds do not necessarily mean that all these individuals had accounts at all those financial institutions? I've attempted some research on this myself (upthread) but you seem more research savvy than me! How does LE/financial expert from FBI go about tracing and tracking the financial transactions of a bunch of people at once and quickly? Is it possible the warrants for financial records of these people could be granted without each individual necessarily having a carded account with the institution? One poster upthread here has even calculated probability and pointed out the odds of all these individuals having accounts with all these same financial institutions is astronomically low. I think there is a simpler explanation personally. Asking you because you because I see you as being very good at reseearch IMO
Please feel free to ignore ofcourse!

@jepop My apologies, not ignoring your post. Good question.

Your "simpler solution" may be better than my idea, so pls, SPILL IT.
Short off the cuff answer, yes, but I'll have to think thru it after a good night's sleep.

BTW, flattered by your post [blushing, ]. Seeya sometime tomorrow.

 

[jepop]

Student/Victims' Multiple Bank A/C's Overlapping Each Other???

@jepop My apologies, not ignoring your post. Good question.

Your "simpler solution" may be better than my idea, so pls, SPILL IT.
Short off the cuff answer, yes, but I'll have to think thru it after a good night's sleep.

BTW, flattered by your post [blushing, ]. Seeya sometime tomorrow.

You often go off and do background on various notions people bring to the threads, IMO!

In a nutshell, my "simpler" solution is what I wrote (quoted) further upthread but I don't have the brain or necessary understanding to comprehend a process involved in tracing specific transactions of many individuals during an urgent mass murder investigation.
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4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 75

But how do four 20-somethings who don't seem to be from wealthy backgrounds have so much money in college that they even need this many financial institutions? As SGH said, it was like 8 or 9 different financial institutions counting the credit unions. I don't believe it's student loans...

www.websleuths.com

"Just because all 4 are listed in the search warrant doesn’t mean that all the victims actually have an account at all these banks.They’re casting a wide net to allow themselves to follow a trail; trace specific transactions." Courtesy of @Momac-07 in thread 74.
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I thought that LE with the aid of investigative financial specialist (maybe in FBi) might be able to get warrants for a specific set of individuals from Banks and Credit card companies that act as credit card networks at the point of transaction. The links in my earlier post were an attempt to explore that idea. I could be right off base with that idea, I really don't know. But the notion that all these individuals had accounts with all of these financial institutions seems astronomical and I'd rather look for more rational (MOO) solutions first up if they exist. MOO

MY earlier post also had some specifics to suggest BOA has good student accounts (perhaps all did have BOA accs) and that Discover and AMEX act as major credit card networks. But like I said, my understanding is that of a lay person and there are massive gaps in my knowledge.