Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74

[SLouTh]

That's not what the sister said in her statement to Debra Nelson as reported by CO in the podcast the link to which Chrissy posted yesterday. There she said they were all on the porch, he was playing at being a tiger, she was drawing, and FFC and FGM were each sitting in a chair, when William went 'around there' (pointing).

Agree that is what was said in the podcast … it is also in the book …

The interview with Detective Debra Nelson was not done until the Monday, 15th (4 days after WT disappeared)
Is it possible that a child may remember what she has heard repeatedly for the last 3 days, especially if said by adults???? “We were all sitting here and then he was gone… “ or words to that effect …. DEFINITELY NOT implying a lie…. But just wondering if a child may repeat what they have heard ????

All my opinion, and just a speculation…

Chapter 4, Missing William Tyrrell by Overington

 

[JLZ]

Agree that is what was said in the podcast … it is also in the book …

The interview with Detective Debra Nelson was not done until the Monday, 15th (4 days after WT disappeared)
Is it possible that a child may remember what she has heard repeatedly for the last 3 days, especially if said by adults???? “We were all sitting here and then he was gone… “ or words to that effect …. DEFINITELY NOT implying a lie…. But just wondering if a child may repeat what they have heard ????

All my opinion, and just a speculation…

Chapter 4, Missing William Tyrrell by Overington

After all, the last photograph is evidence that FFC wasn't in the chair for all of the time William was playing tiger and his sister was drawing. FFC was moving around the edge of porch taking photographs from different angles.

 

[SLouTh]

Yes, the early reporting included toilet breaks, cups of tea being made, L being with W by themselves for a short period of time. We have had to wait til the inquest to see if these areas are covered and mostly they weren't, nor in the FGM statement or walkthrough... I don't think you can just report things to police in statements/inquests if they aren't true to protect WT's sibling. These are official documents and processes. Why did the FFC say to the MFC, "he was just here" near the patio as per his walk through if it were not true?

Ah yes…. Remember all the questions Craddock asked about the tea…. ???
I wonder what he was really trying to find out???? Was that a discreet way of examining the timeline???
All my own opinion ..

https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/inside-the-william-tyrrell-inquest/news-story/d0e0d3664d113387adef9083d094040f

 

[Chrissy74]

Does anyone know if W had a speech impediment?

 

[deugirtni]

Does anyone know if W had a speech impediment?

I believe he did. moo

 

[deugirtni]

I understand but just try the experiment with this picture anyway. If I could find the 4th picture in the same quality as the one I posted, I would try it on that pic as well. He could well have a di in his mouth. Worked it out... here you go... that circle is directly copied from the picture, not me. New images released of William on fifth anniversary of disappearance I would use the link to take you to the picture as the circle is lost when i try it from the copy i put on my post of the last roar picture, one post back.
View attachment 409216

iiii's.. I just wanted to say.. even though I'm sure police must already be aware, I hope you send this information in to the tip line. imo.

 

[LolaAngelina]

Does anyone know if W had a speech impediment?

I haven’t seen anything to say he has, so l would say no. Why do you ask?

 

[bearbear]

++

I think, it can't be a dice, which is seen there with an outline, marked with a red pen.

The dimension of the outline is almost less than one of little W's cutting tooth. Much too little for some dice, IMO.

Why using a RED marker on a usually RED coloured tongue? IMO, it would only make sense, if there is seen something round in a different colour than red, but it shouldn't be seen for the viewer. WHY is the viewer not allowed to recognize it? What might it be, if it is no dice?

maybe a cut or wound,a sore or mouth ulcer, he could have bitten his tongue?

 

[nightrider17]

Does anyone know if W had a speech impediment?

Maybe he had a speech delay - which may contributes to not being able to use his words to explain when he gets frustrated or upset.

Not saying he did - but could be an explanation on how he interacted with play items - dice, colouring pens.



This can manifest in more displays of throwing items if he can't explain how he is feeling or get his point across that he is bored or tired.

This can definitely show up as a behaviour issue when really its just a communication difficulty to convey a message to others in a specific manner.

Again - I am not saying he has this but it if he did it can impact interactions with others.

If FGM was more particular about how children should behave and was misjudging her daughter for her children's behaviour it can put pressure on the relationship. My own opinion.

 

[Chrissy74]

Re: the first part of your post, Jubes says ....

"The longer this goes on, the less likely it seems that anyone will find him. That makes me sick. I think about William's sister who is the last person known to have seen him alive.
She was 5 back then, a foster child like he was, and remembers that the two of them were playing a game of tigers on the lawn beneath the house, out of sight of the adults."
Source: Badness by Gary Jubelin and Dan Box, chapter A White Button in the Darkness

I think it is very possible that the stories of them playing chasey/hide-n-seek (tigers) together may well be true, but then the retelling was adjusted to protect sister.
Sister said in her statement that William went to look for daddy's car. She might have known that because she was with him. So she went back to the back patio.

SthAussie Are you suggesting police changed the ff story to protect Ws sister or did the ff change their story to protect her?

L says in her statement that W went to look for daddy’s car. Who’s seen this police statement? Going off the CO book L paints a very different image. No mention of the 2 of them playing together. W was playing like a tiger on the grass on his own and then suddenly he heads off around the side of the house and is gone. In this story Both adults are present when this happens.

Where the adults inside making cups of tea or distracted in conversation while both children were completely out of sight?

 

[nightrider17]

double post

 

[SouthAussie]

SthAussie Are you suggesting police changed the ff story to protect Ws sister or did the ff change their story to protect her?

L says in her statement that W went to look for daddy’s car. Who’s seen this police statement? Going off the CO book L paints a very different image.

In CO's book Missing William Tyrrell it gives the interview transcript of where sister speaks of William going to find daddy's car. In Chapter 4.

This is a little bit of it. 'Oh, okay. And you said that he went off to find Daddy's car? How do you know he went off to find Daddy's car?'


And there's this .... (from article dated 16 Feb 2020) .... "William’s sister had also told detectives in her interview that she saw William running towards “daddy’s car” before he vanished.
Thread 73, post 794


And there's this .... (article dated 7 Sep 2015)
"On Sunday, William's parents revealed he could have made his way down the sloping backyard because he was excited about his dad coming home from work and wanted to welcome him home.
"I called out, 'Can you see daddy's car?' " said his mother. "Then there was no answer."
Within 20 minutes his mother had called police."
Thread 25, post 236


As well as Jubes saying in his book Badness, as stated upthread ... "The longer this goes on, the less likely it seems that anyone will find him. That makes me sick. I think about William's sister who is the last person known to have seen him alive."
.

 

[Couldbe]

In CO's book Missing William Tyrrell it gives the interview transcript of where sister speaks of William going to find daddy's car. In Chapter 4.

This is a little bit of it. 'Oh, okay. And you said that he went off to find Daddy's car? How do you know he went off to find Daddy's car?'


And there's this .... (from article dated 16 Feb 2020) .... "William’s sister had also told detectives in her interview that she saw William running towards “daddy’s car” before he vanished.
Thread 73, post 794


And there's this .... (article dated 7 Sep 2015)
"On Sunday, William's parents revealed he could have made his way down the sloping backyard because he was excited about his dad coming home from work and wanted to welcome him home.
"I called out, 'Can you see daddy's car?' " said his mother. "Then there was no answer."
Within 20 minutes his mother had called police."
Thread 25, post 236


As well as Jubes saying in his book Badness, as stated upthread ... "The longer this goes on, the less likely it seems that anyone will find him. That makes me sick. I think about William's sister who is the last person known to have seen him alive."
.

JMO – It can be logically debated:

1. The FM had not yet received the usually sent ‘home in five’ text message from the FF at the time when William (Or William & his sister) was/were said to be around that side of the house (On the grass).
2. FM has described the searching activity by herself before she later saw the text message (Sent at 10.30 am)…on her Mobile (Which was retrieved from inside the house).
3. SO, without the FM expecting the imminent return of the FF in his vehicle, the revelation of the following is placed in doubt:
   "On Sunday, William's parents revealed he could have made his way down the sloping backyard because he was excited about his dad coming home from work and wanted to welcome him home.
   "I called out, 'Can you see daddy's car?' " said his mother. "Then there was no answer."
4. Question? … Why does this not make sense … in the context of what has been said about William’s sister being there with him, seeing him running towards ‘daddy’s’ car? E.g. why did his sister not answer or continue on down to welcome the FF... because at that point the vehicle would not be in sight?

Edited for clarity

 

[SouthAussie]

JMO – It can be logically debated:

1. The FM had not yet received the usually sent ‘home in five’ text message from the FF at the time when William (Or William & his sister) was/were said to be around that side of the house (On the grass).
2. FM has described the searching activity by herself before she later saw the text message (Sent at 10.30 am)…on her Mobile (Which was retrieved from inside the house).
3. SO, without the FM expecting the imminent return of the FF in his vehicle, the revelation of the following is placed in doubt:
   "On Sunday, William's parents revealed he could have made his way down the sloping backyard because he was excited about his dad coming home from work and wanted to welcome him home.
   "I called out, 'Can you see daddy's car?' " said his mother. "Then there was no answer."
4. Question? … Why does this not make sense … in the context of what has been said about William’s sister being there with him, seeing him running towards ‘daddy’s’ car? E.g. why did his sister not answer or continue on down to welcome the FF... because at that point the vehicle would not be in sight?

Edited for clarity

That is what sister thought. That William went to find daddy's car.

This does not mean that daddy was on his way home, or that daddy's car was there, just that is where she thought William went.

We know very little of their actual conversations during that morning.
We do know that they planned to visit Opa's grave when daddy got home, so they were likely tentatively waiting for daddy to get home.

 

[Chrissy74]

That is what sister thought. That William went to find daddy's car.

This does not mean that daddy was on his way home, or that daddy's car was there, just that is where she thought William went.

We know very little of their actual conversations during that morning.
We do know that they planned to visit Opa's grave when daddy got home, so they were likely tentatively waiting for daddy to get home.

In the first few days weeks months it was reported on the missing persons website that W was playing with his sister when he suddenly disappeared.

However police statements from Ffc ffcm and L put them all together on the back patio talking drawing and sipping tea when W went missing.

When L was questioned why she thought W was going towards daddy’s car her reply was “I don’t know”.

There was a time however when the children were reported as playing together and that was during the dice game as per Ffc account in the LH podcast. L and W played the dice game only minutes before w was gone.

From the LH podcast:
After playing with the dice for a while W got bored and jumped off the patio on the grass and began playing daddy tiger. He wanted L to play but she wanted to draw. He then walked around the side of the house.

Just because W and L were said to be playing together which as stated they were,I don’t believe their play was away from the adults and out of their sight.

Connecting the dots it seems that whatever happened to W happened on the back patio seconds or minutes after playing the dice game with his sister.

The reason why L thought W was going towards daddy’s car was because she was told that, not because she saw it. Going towards daddy’s car would show W heading towards the carport not in the opposite direction.

Did W take the dice from his sister while she was playing with it and ran off towards the side of the house? Were W and his sister playing chasey or was Ffc chasing W to get the dice back? Is that when she slipped and grazed her hand chasing after W?

 

[Megnut]

Maybe the sister heard the gma's car?

 

[Couldbe]

Maybe the sister heard the gma's car?

Yes she could have Megnut; in the context of these discussions, where would that have fitted?

 

[Megnut]

Yes she could have Megnut; in the context of these discussions, where would that have fitted?

The tea.

I think tea may have been made/served twice.

I think there may have been two times for sister to draw pictures on the patio.

I think that sister's perceptions/memory might have been manipulated. The FGma's too. Converging. Smoke and mirroring.

Remember you were drawing with Wm? Remember he ran around the side? Remember he roared?

(To erase real memories -- that he wasn't there possibly for an entire drawing session, that the female caregiver was absent for quite a while.....)

IMO....

I think it's possible that, at some point around 10am, the female caregiver was upset with Wm (possibly upset over many things and his being three set her off)... and he did leave the patio.... and she went after him.

Something terrible happened. Choking, falling.

Bundled into the boot.

Returned to the patio with tea. Made sure the foster grandma was settled with her tea and news, foster daughter, a bathroom break and plenty of drawing paper. Then she left again, this time in the car. Which the sister may have heard ... and associated it with the foster family's car. Maybe she conflated those events -- Wm running around the side of the house. Her hearing a car. No reason for her to think the foster grandma's car would start. Perhaps she even bounced up to run toward it and the foster grandma kept her on the patio, to keep drawing. (How was HER hearing? Maybe she never heard a car at all....)

I think the female caregiver may have returned around 10:20, parked. Came out to the patio thru the house, sat down as if she hadn't been gone long.... maybe brought out more tea....like the movie Groundhog's Day.... Deja vu.... then said, it's too quiet, went around the side yard AGAIN.... then the foster grandma followed, aware of a second passage of time, now close to 10:30.... and then the search in the house, in the yard, etc, then the male caregiver gets home.....

I think that's why the timeline might be especially confusing.... some things happened twice.... sleight of hand.....

JMO

 

[Couldbe]

The tea.

I think tea may have been made/served twice.

I think there may have been two times for sister to draw pictures on the patio.

I think that sister's perceptions/memory might have been manipulated. The FGma's too. Converging. Smoke and mirroring.

Remember you were drawing with Wm? Remember he ran around the side? Remember he roared?

(To erase real memories -- that he wasn't there possibly for an entire drawing session, that the female caregiver was absent for quite a while.....)

IMO....

I think it's possible that, at some point around 10am, the female caregiver was upset with Wm (possibly upset over many things and his being three set her off)... and he did leave the patio.... and she went after him.

Something terrible happened. Choking, falling.

Bundled into the boot.

Returned to the patio with tea. Made sure the foster grandma was settled with her tea and news, foster daughter, a bathroom break and plenty of drawing paper. Then she left again, this time in the car. Which the sister may have heard ... and associated it with the foster family's car. Maybe she conflated those events -- Wm running around the side of the house. Her hearing a car. No reason for her to think the foster grandma's car would start. Perhaps she even bounced up to run toward it and the foster grandma kept her on the patio, to keep drawing. (How was HER hearing? Maybe she never heard a car at all....)

I think the female caregiver may have returned around 10:20, parked. Came out to the patio thru the house, sat down as if she hadn't been gone long.... maybe brought out more tea....like the movie Groundhog's Day.... Deja vu.... then said, it's too quiet, went around the side yard AGAIN.... then the foster grandma followed, aware of a second passage of time, now close to 10:30.... and then the search in the house, in the yard, etc, then the male caregiver gets home.....

I think that's why the timeline might be especially confusing.... some things happened twice.... sleight of hand.....

JMO

JMO – Police have suggested that William disappeared at some time between 10.05 am and 10.20 am.
Adhering to that then if, as per this following link, the FM made a cup of tea at between that time (10.20 am at the latest), THEN would that same cup of tea still be warm when First Responders arrived at 10.06 am and went to the back deck and felt the tea cup? …. On that quite cold morning…I doubt it. SO, as you have said in your post Megnut, most likely was a second tea drinking event.

Parents of William Tyrrell appear on 60 Minutes as new evidence revealed
“William was wearing a Spider-Man suit and playing in the backyard with his sister when he disappeared, as their mother made a cup of tea.”

 

[LolaAngelina]

The tea.

I think tea may have been made/served twice.

I think there may have been two times for sister to draw pictures on the patio.

I think that sister's perceptions/memory might have been manipulated. The FGma's too. Converging. Smoke and mirroring.

Remember you were drawing with Wm? Remember he ran around the side? Remember he roared?

(To erase real memories -- that he wasn't there possibly for an entire drawing session, that the female caregiver was absent for quite a while.....)

IMO....

I think it's possible that, at some point around 10am, the female caregiver was upset with Wm (possibly upset over many things and his being three set her off)... and he did leave the patio.... and she went after him.

Something terrible happened. Choking, falling.

Bundled into the boot.

Returned to the patio with tea. Made sure the foster grandma was settled with her tea and news, foster daughter, a bathroom break and plenty of drawing paper. Then she left again, this time in the car. Which the sister may have heard ... and associated it with the foster family's car. Maybe she conflated those events -- Wm running around the side of the house. Her hearing a car. No reason for her to think the foster grandma's car would start. Perhaps she even bounced up to run toward it and the foster grandma kept her on the patio, to keep drawing. (How was HER hearing? Maybe she never heard a car at all....)

I think the female caregiver may have returned around 10:20, parked. Came out to the patio thru the house, sat down as if she hadn't been gone long.... maybe brought out more tea....like the movie Groundhog's Day.... Deja vu.... then said, it's too quiet, went around the side yard AGAIN.... then the foster grandma followed, aware of a second passage of time, now close to 10:30.... and then the search in the house, in the yard, etc, then the male caregiver gets home.....

I think that's why the timeline might be especially confusing.... some things happened twice.... sleight of hand.....

JMO

So you have something happening to William at 10 and fm returning after burying his body at 10.20??