4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 75

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Yes, he left a sheath behind. But as far as we know, he left nothing else except a partial footprint. IMO, killing 4 people in 15 minutesen without leaving your DNA (beyond on a snap to the sheath) is the thing crime novels are made of. So while I agree he made mistakes, as far as crimes go and relative to other crimes, BK wasn't as stupid as he's made out to be. MOO.

I mostly see people describing him as smart. Who is making him out as stupid?

I do imagine they found at least a little more DNA in the house. And IMO, there cannot be just one latent footprint, because that means he had blood on the bottom of his shoe, which had disappeared as he made 10-15 long strides from where ever he got it.

Arguing about what we don't know (yet) over and over...I guess is our fate until June.

We can see investigators doing analysis on the slider (even with a glove, he would have left something on the door, I figure). It probably isn't as dramatic as the footprint. And again, no PCA is going to list that, because then both the whackadoos and the real killer can make up stories about what route the killer took through the house. DM doesn't actually say she saw him go through the slider.

We have no forensic evidence that he ever exited the house and yet, just a couple of minutes after DM sees him, his car (and it is his car) is seen leaving. That's evidence as well. It doesn't all have to be DNA. Having his car caught on camera immediately after DM sees a man in black leave the house is pretty damning, IMO. Then, about 30 minutes later, he is heading south out of Moscow (even though Pullman is to the West) and takes a long route back to Pullman, pulling off the main road and turning on his phone so that most of that trip is tracked as well.

But you're saying that the "only evidence" is one footprint. And not leaving DNA is not a thing only in crime novels - in crime novels, DNA is much more important than it is presumed to be in real life. Now, having said that, DNA retrieval techniques are improving by leaps and bounds (those forensic vacuum cleaners they used may have dragged some up).

A man wearing a mask isn't breathing out much DNA (this is like saying that an operating room would be filled with medical personnel's DNA after each procedure - but they wear hats, gloves, masks, etc., and staff DNA is almost never found in studies of OR's. It turns out that pre-op prep (where people have their cell phones) does leave bio-traces of the staff behind, but when people leave behind their cell phones (which have lots of DNA on them) and are wearing masks, hats, new gowns and booties while prepping the room, the individual bio-matter of the staff (including bacteria gained from swabbing their noses that is unique to each individual). In Europe (where this study was done), OR people are being urged to gown up twice - and to leave their cell phones out of the OR. They're not concerned about DNA contamination, but bacterial contamination - but where there is bacteria from someone's body in a place, there's DNA as well.

So it is likely hard to find lots of BK DNA at 1122 King Road. But I believe he touched the slider (there are evidence markers there) both going in and going out (it's possible he left the door open though - if he were really smart, he might have done so, even just a crack would have meant he wouldn't have gotten victim blood and his own handprint (gloved) on the door. Naturally, the defense will argue that's not evidence he did it, because no DNA - but juries are not persuaded merely by DNA and in fact, in the Murdaugh case, the jury took less than 3 hours to deliberate the circumstantial evidence (jurors say it was only 45 minutes from first vote to last). The details of why the jurors decided what they did are in recent MSM (and in the Media thread over there).

I'm not sure why we are discussing DNA apart from the other evidence (his drive toward Moscow on that very night; his car seen circling the neighborhood; his car seen doing a 3 point turn to get to an invisible-to-the-camera parking spot; his car seen leaving at goodly rate of speed on camera - from the parking spot next to 1122, as either method of exit would have caught him on camera; his circuitous route home; his return to the scene of the crime the next morning; his use of the same circuitous route home (he would have had more evidence to dispose of after going home and showering).

LE and DA are not going to give the poseur whackadoos (present in every major case I've ever known about) and the real killer the information about what they know BK bought in Albertson's. I think the legal reasoning and the practical reasoning behind that is very clear. But they know what he bought and they caught him on camera doing it. They would have wanted a warrant for Albertson's cash register records, I reckon - just going in and asking staff if they remembered BK would have been prejudicial and really bad investigation. They need to see the digital trail.


ALL IMO. And while he's not an unintelligent person, it was unwise for him to turn his phone back on a mere 20 minutes or so after leaving 1122. BTW, the affiant for the PCA who wrote it from the point of view of being an affiant who visited the crime scene could not have attested to the Albertson's evidence, as that was collected by the FBI. But the DA could open their mouth and speak to the judge and say, "There is also this other evidence; here's the FBI phone number of the guy handling that."

It's not a trial, it's a probable cause affidavit. Probable cause is not based only on one affidavit, but can be based on words said out loud to the judge by the DA, an officer of the court, or by LE in person, as the case may be. The way I read Idaho laws on warrants, a DA can issue an arrest warrant without going before a judge (but generally wants a victim statement in hand, not possible in this case) but if the arrest is out of state it must go before a judge. The minimum requirement for what's in the PCA is way less than what's in this one.

DA and LE are simply not going to play their full hand for an arrest warrant when it isn't needed. IMO and in the opinion of every DA, LEO and Judge I've ever observed or interviewed.

But my main point is that there's way more evidence in this case mentioned in the PCA, and the argument over whether there's more DNA or not is both immaterial and unnecessary in Idaho - they don't need anything more to arrest him and we're not trying him here on WS.

It's tedious looking at each individual piece of evidence in a vacuum, I believe the only productive way to look at what might happen next (or whether BK did it) is to consider the sum of what is known (including public statements by various people who observed him before and after Oct 13).

I am very interested in the receipts and financial transactions; but I'd really like to know if they used the special forensic cameras on his body when when they booked him in Moscow. These cameras can capture evidence of scratches or wounds that are a couple of months old - even older, even if the scratches are not visible to the naked eye or barely so. BK is fair-skinned as well, and even with a regular magnifying glass, one can usually still see remnants of a moderate scratch a couple of months later.

I suppose if LE has found a receipt for purchase of a Ka-Bar knife and a black coverall amongst BK's things that will overshadow the DNA entirely at the preliminary. And, with any luck, they may still recover the knife. Something tells me that he did not take it with him on the way to PA - he got rid of it in Idaho. Unfortunately, the most likely place was in the Snake River, which is unlucky for the prosecution.

IMO.
 
Do you have a link to back up that he left footprints? I said in my post that I'm only going by what we know to be facts. If it's a fact that he left footprints, then I'll reconsider, but otherwise, I'm only considering the facts atm.
<snipped by me for focus> I'm not sure exactly why your post made me stop and think so much, but it did. :) We know and can infer a lot from the PCA, but you're correct that being able to infer doesn't make it a fact. 1) We know there was at least 1 latent footprint in the hallway and that they used Amido Black to bring it out. 2) Because Amido Black brought the print out, there must have been some sort of protein on the sole of the shoe, but we can only infer that it was blood. 3) We know the print was detailed enough for LE to see at least a partial pattern on the sole of the shoe.

Since it's apparently not possible for someone to clear the entire hallway with a single step, we can also infer there were other footsteps taken. It's very logical to assume there are other steps, but we don't have actual proof of that at this time. Stabbing even one person is often messy business, so we can infer it's unlikely that anyone could stab 4 people and come away without being fairly bloody. But, again, we don't have proof.

I have been guilty of making these same leaps this myself and probably will again. Working my way through this reminded me of an often repeated line from And The Band Played On: What do we think, what do we know, and what can we prove? Thank you for making me take a more disciplined walk through all of this. Hopefully, I'll remember this in the future. :)
 
I know next to nothing about killing people - in fact, that would be on the shady side of nothing. But when I see all the comments about how difficult it would be to kill 4 people in 15 minutes, I can't help but question that, rightly or wrongly. Maybe we should do some time tests? I wonder about the time needed to kill the 2 girls upstairs - with both victims conveniently in the same bed, and presumed to be sleeping, I should think 5 minutes would definitely be enough time, or even 4. Then perhaps a little longer to kill X and E, due to some resistance. Say 6 or 7 minutes? Plus say 30 seconds each for going up the stairs, and then down again? Now we're up to 11 - 13 minutes. Does that leave enough time to leave his car, enter and exit the building, and get back to the car?

We don't need to conduct tests on the speed. Marine training (emulated all across the country in various contexts using knife as a self-defense weapon) aims for 20 seconds or less (for killing someone with a Ka-Bar knife). I've now watched more videos on this topic than I care too and interviewed every Marine I know (and they span a time frame of having done training from 2 to 25 years ago) and they say the training expects a Marine to know where to place the killing knife insertion (they hold it in a saber grip, not a stabbing grip) and 20 seconds is the goal. 15 seconds is possible. Here's a less graphic description (doesn't mention time but will orient you):


Note that it is the footwork that is emphasize (and body placement of the knife wielder). While this is Marine training, there are knife classes taught all over the US.

And now, some of the more graphic stuff. First a quote:

//
James coiled like a snake preparing to strike. He latched onto the passing enemy soldier. His left hand felt around in the darkness. An arm. A chest. The softer stomach. His right hand followed with the blade, slashing and stabbing wherever it landed. It ended in seconds. James lay on the ground next to the body. He could not see the results of his action, but the rich smell of blood filled his nose. Another shot rang out. James crawled toward it. More unintelligible chatter and footsteps approached. One soldier came close. James dragged the enemy to the ground and plunged the Ka-Bar into him. When the scuffle ended, James heard rapid footsteps carrying away the other enemy soldier.//

From this story (Vietnam War; NSFL; triggering):


At any rate, all the marines I've talked to say they aim for 20 seconds or less.

Finally, this is not the only mass homicide using a knife (there was one in Calgary in 2014; at a party with many people around, 5 people were killed so quickly, no one could stop the murderer).

Here's one of the online training videos (this one by an amateur - there are many others):


Notice how quickly he manages to get 4-5 slashes right up in the neck area (further reach needed than for abdominal injuries). It's less then 3 seconds. Now, death would not occur instantly, but it sure would incapacitate a person and they would die of those neck slashes. Substitute lungs and liver; same thing (but just as quickly done).

IMO. And before everyone thinks I'm obsessed or weird, I do teach classes and labs in forensics and while I do not consider myself an expert, it's standard curriculum to discuss knives vs guns and to show videos like these, so that the students who want internships in the Sheriff's lab know a little bit before they go in. We also look at crime scene analysis to ask what type of knife attacks occur in what circumstances.

Here's one of the online tutorials. There are two parts to this tutorial, the first doesn't have videos. They come up in the top 10 results on google:


This one has anatomical drawings. Note that a wound to the lungs causes death by asphyxiation, all by itself. A wound to the liver needs immediate medical treatment but is very likely to be fatal (but slower than some of the other methods - if you read that article, it shows why).

I had a student make chain mail while taking this class (well, he didn't finish until afterwards). This is in SoCal.

IMPO.
 
But wasn't Kaylee the one who wasn't expected to be at the house that night? Who had just come back to show her friends her new car? So how could BK have known for sure that Kaylee would be there, if she was indeed his target?

Why is it that Kaylee's return, above, triggers a glimmer of a very, VERY early notion that I had??

- - - that BK had decided to follow Kaylee on her drive back to her hometown, entertaining the fantasy of a "chance" social interaction but in a fresh setting, i.e. away from her clutch of wise-cracking campus cohorts;
- - - that he did just that;
- - - and she skewered him;
- - - possibly in front of family or former high school friends;
- - - so, of course he knew Kaylee was at #1122 on the fateful night, because he never let her out of his sight from this humiliation onward;
- - - BK simply stalked her show-off-my-new-car-to-my-roomies return trip;
- - - his ideations kaleidoscoping with every roll of the odometer;
- - - as to how he was going to make her pay for being who she was;
- - - because it was now more than ever perfectly clear, and just, that Kaylee must pay.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

All the above hypothesis/speculation,
albeit in furtherance of offering motive and opportunity
extremely proximate to the events that evening.
 
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4 minutes, in this type of crime, actually seems to be really long upstairs. I'd say once he started upstairs he was done in 2 mins or less. 4 minutes is a long, long time to continuously stab. As grusome as this is, I know it was mentioned right above that reportedly the autopsy shows a fatal wound for all - if he went right for something like the neck, we're talking 5 seconds per person.

All just MOO.

Per the coroner report you're citing, he stabbed all of them multiple times. It said that one wound was fatal, but that doesn't mean they only had one wound. That's my interpretation anyway. MOO.
 
My fear, looking theoretically and abstractly at the case, is that IF by some chance he really is not guilty (I believe he is guilty, but you never know) rather than that “one juror” who finds reasonable doubt and holds out, there will be a going along with presumptions.

There have been quite a few cases where there was reasonable doubt but conviction still came.

Which is why the gag order was and is necessary. Social media mobs were calling for his head before the PCA even came out, all based on assumptions.
 
I mostly see people describing him as smart. Who is making him out as stupid?
Snipped for focus.

To me it's semantics. IMO he's been labeled as intelligent. You can be extremely intelligent with degrees up the ying yang, but still not very smart, which to me is more about common sense, street smarts, etc. I worked with very intelligent people (engineers with patents and degrees up the wazoo), but man o man some of them sure didn't have a lick of common sense!

One asked where office supplies were (in a drawer in the cabinet right outside her cubicle). I said In the office supply drawer. She asked... How do you open it? I said... Uh... you pull on it (demonstrating with my hand in the air while we walked).

True story!

All MOO
 
I would really like to know what the light/lighting was like that night. Was there any moonlight coming in to the house? Were there any nightlights on? Was there a light on in any of the rooms, eg in a bathroom to make it easier to see the way at night? If it was pitch black, that would surely slow the killer down somewhat. I suppose we'll eventually find out.

I'd like to know that too. A quick check of internet astronomy charts shows the moon was nearly full. Moon had risen around 1 am and would not set until about 9 am.

There's also that neon sign on the second floor which may or may not have been left on at night. Our house has overhanging eaves and is among trees, but it is almost never completely dark (dark of the moon it can be dark in interior halls).

It would be interesting to know if lights were found on the next morning, by anyone. I kept thinking the murderer had to have had a headlamp, but after learning the moon was full and nearly overhead or a little toward the west when the murders occurred, made me think differently. Also, if the killer is BK, then he is used to navigating a partially obscure and difficult visual world.

IMO.

Snipped by me. You must have read stuff I haven't. What I'm reading is exactly the opposite.

MOO.
I must be. Starting with what his professor at DeSales said, then what the students at WSU said.

I read a lot of "Well, for a guy who is so smart, he sure did some dumb things" here on WS, which is not the same thing as saying he's stupid.

He's obviously got a high enough IQ. His TapATalk posts show, as several of us posted, a perceptive and articulate 15-17 year old. He got into grad school. He surely had to have transcripts and probably a GRE to do that. Over and over, what I read here is, "For someone who appeared to be smart, he lacked common sense."

Lacking common sense != "dumb" in my book.

I'm not going to go back and count ratios between "he's smart" and "he's dumb," but people saying he's stupid really would have to work to convince those of us who think otherwise. He's smart and he thought he'd constructed a perfect crime (perhaps the first of many he wanted to commit, who knows). He made one major error (not bad - most people would indeed have cut themselves with a knife - but he chose a knife that made that far less likely, just as the Marines do, and he probably used it in the saber/flat manner I posted about just above - so I think he was smart enough to use the internet, follow instructions, etc). Not everyone can do that.

He managed to dispose of nearly all the physical evidence. He came very close to not being caught. I think we'll find that nearly all the evidence in the car was successfully removed - I would not bet even a donut that they'll find victim blood in the car, but will be very relieved if they do.

IMO.
 
This is such an important distinction. The sheath being there does not mean BK is the one who left it.

The other pieces of evidence (that we know) could also be attributed to something or someone else:
  • a car like his was seen on video.
  • his cell phone pinged in the area multiple times
There is no video evidence of the car's license plate. The driver of the car was not identifiable. All of the above, put together is compelling; however, a good defense team will work hard to poke enough holes in at least one of those to create reasonable doubt. It doesn't matter how small the chances are that the combination of those things isn't likely to happen to one person--they only need one juror to vote not guilty.


I actually think it is more damning to find BK's DNA on something associated with the weapon as opposed to on a door knob. On a door knob the defense could say he came to a party X amount of time ago, but to be associated with this brutal knife causing horrific multiple stab wounds is very hard to overcome.

The defense has 3 ways to go.

1.) It is BK's DNA but other killers stole or found his knife sheath, used heir own knife even, and left the sheath at the scene.

2.) Say that this is not BK's DNA and put up expert witnesses to cast doubt on the DNA evidence.

3.) File Motions to get the DNA evidence tossed out, which would require the defense to call witnesses at the June preliminary hearing to explain how the DNA wasn't collected or processed correctly, or the amount of DNA is too small for adequate analysis, or the DNA was destroyed during testing and now the defense cannot use it to conduct their own tests, etc...

The jury will need an alternate suspect, other possibilities of who else could have done it. Perhaps pointing out (trying to convince the jury) that it is more realistic that 2 other perpetrators committed this, that it is unrealistic for one person alone to have stabbed 4 people multiple times in such a short time span.

The defense could argue that this is only Touch DNA and that the DNA would be stronger if it came from actual bodily fluids, blood, sweat, saliva, piece of skin, hair, or if it came from under the victim's fingernails.

 
We have no forensic evidence that he ever exited the house and yet, just a couple of minutes after DM sees him, his car (and it is his car) is seen leaving. .
just curious - what you’re basing this off of when you say ‘and it is his car’ ? not arguing it is or isn’t, only that this is all I saw about the car:
 

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I actually think it is more damning to find BK's DNA on something associated with the weapon as opposed to on a door knob. On a door knob the defense could say he came to a party X amount of time ago, but to be associated with this brutal knife causing horrific multiple stab wounds is very hard to overcome.

The defense has 3 ways to go.

1.) It is BK's DNA but other killers stole or found his knife sheath, used heir own knife even, and left the sheath at the scene.

2.) Say that this is not BK's DNA and put up expert witnesses to cast doubt on the DNA evidence.

3.) File Motions to get the DNA evidence tossed out, which would require the defense to call witnesses at the June preliminary hearing to explain how the DNA wasn't collected or processed correctly, or the amount of DNA is too small for adequate analysis, or the DNA was destroyed during testing and now the defense cannot use it to conduct their own tests, etc...

The jury will need an alternate suspect, other possibilities of who else could have done it. Perhaps pointing out (trying to convince the jury) that it is more realistic that 2 other perpetrators committed this, that it is unrealistic for one person alone to have stabbed 4 people multiple times in such a short time span.

The defense could argue that this is only Touch DNA and that the DNA would be stronger if it came from actual bodily fluids, blood, sweat, saliva, piece of skin, hair, or if it came from under the victim's fingernails.

Also, it was found on what is known as a "use point." There was enough DNA deposited by multiple snappings/unsnappings to get a few swabs (and I bet a big box of donuts there's plenty more left on the sheath).

The idea that someone broke into BK's apt and stole his Ka-Bar knife and sheath; drove a car with his phone in it, a car that matches the description of his own car; turned the phone off, then murdered, left the sheath to frame BK (WHY?) and then drove in roundabout fashion to BK's apartment to park the car; then stole the car again around 9 am and drove to the murder scene is preposterous, to me. An unknown person (BK had few associations, so might as well say a stranger who hated him) steals his phone, knife, sheath and car; kills 4 people (three of whom BK had interacted with on Insta before the murders IMO); then drives around Idaho back to Pullman; parks the car; then steals it again? Really?

And such a person wouldn't be worried about getting victim blood in the car (just his own DNA). Why is BK so worried about hiding his trash? Because he knows how LE uses trash to match DNA and he knows the DNA is on the missing sheath.

Then, after visiting the murder scene, this car thief (never reported by BK) drives the same route as the night before. Wow.

Why didn't BK report all this? THat's clearly what all those asks by LE were after. Come forward and tell us the story, even if you have any knowledge about this situation. That would be the time for BK to exonerate himself.

And if he has this story to tell about the car being stolen, he should have had an early prelim and said exactly that. If his claim is that he himself slept in late, so this person could steal his car twice and bring it back twice, then yeah, that's a weak alibi. How did the person break into the car? There ought to be have been signs of hotwiring. Why is BK himself SEEN ON VIDEO at Albertson's and the Coffee Stand and one other place during the second "theft." How does BK know to go the same route as his ostensible enemy?

This is laughable. IMO. If it weren't so awfully tragic. But the story of a frame-up (which requires even more knowledge and actions by the perp than what I listed off the top of my head) is extremely far-fetched. And this person (the scoundrel who framed BK) is approximately his height and has a forehead that looks like BK's. Wow. So many amazing coincidences.

Occam's Razor, for me. Respectfully disagreeing with the "someone stole his phone, knife and car and impersonated him" theory (and BK's car phone and PERSON drive the same route the next morning - pausing at 1122 King Road, proceeding south, through Lewiston/Clarkston; getting out of his car; seen on camera in Albertson's and elsewhere).

How does BK know to drive to 1122 the next morning, then go on the same route that his stolen car went the night before (purportedly - according only to speculation here on WS, AFAIK).

I think my questions are good ones - anyone have any answers to this last one? Because we know for sure he did that the next morning. Seen at Albertson's, seen at the coffee stand - and there's one more place where his phone pauses. His car and his phone are in the same place as his body Sunday morning, if you ask me.

IME. IMO.
 
Snipped for focus.

To me it's semantics. IMO he's been labeled as intelligent. You can be extremely intelligent with degrees up the ying yang, but still not very smart, which to me is more about common sense, street smarts, etc. I worked with very intelligent people (engineers with patents and degrees up the wazoo), but man o man some of them sure didn't have a lick of common sense!

One asked where office supplies were (in a drawer in the cabinet right outside her cubicle). I said In the office supply drawer. She asked... How do you open it? I said... Uh... you pull on it (demonstrating with my hand in the air while we walked).

True story!

All MOO
Totally irrelevant how smart or stupid BK is.

All the prosecution has to do in regards to his intelligence is convince the jury that BK was intelligent enough to have stalked the victims, intelligent enough to get into the house, and was physically able to overcome 4 people and stab them multiple times.

He drives, he's healthy, he is a pretty big strong guy, he has obvious intelligence, the jury will see this.

I think leaving his DNA on the knife sheath was a simple mistake. I think he wore gloves and was super careful to not touch the sheath or knife with his bare hands. Leave no touch DNA on the knife that could transfer to the victims, leave no touch DNA on the sheath that could transfer to the knife.

I think he accidentally touched the snap with his un-gloved finger and forgot he did or forgot to wash the snap after touching it. Maybe he thought the knife wouldn't touch the snap anyway so it wouldn't matter that he touched it.

But I don't think it was stupid that he left touch DNA on the snap. Easy mistake, a mistake doesn't make you stupid. It is like a killer wearing gloves when they load the bullets into their gun but earlier they made the mistake of touching a shell casing with their bare hand, leaving a partial print.

Ditto leaving the knife sheath, not stupid, just a mistake.

It shows how much of an amateur BK is, he is no professional killer. He was in over his head, actually making multiple mistakes. Being too human, thinking with his emotions.
 
The link is for a copy of the Washington State warrant for BK's apartment. LE chose not to use the DNA evidence as part of their probable cause. I remember discussing it at the time but I've forgotten what was said. Any thoughts on this? tia!


"In making this determination, this court did not consider the information in the Supplemental Disclosure re DNA test as evidence supporting the existence of probable cause. This court also does not consider the information in that Supplemental Disclosure to be exculpatory." (see page 1)

Further down in the document it says this:

"But I am specifically asking the court to NOT consider this supplemental disclosure as evidence supporting the existence of probable cause. The reason for this request is that if the DNA test results are held inadmissable at some point, such a ruling would not impact the findings of probable cause for this warrant, so long as the court is satisfied as to probable cause regardless of the dna test result."
(see page 6)
 
MOO the theory he was innocently stalking while murder took place or SODDI is not reasonable. His defense team will depend on evidence suppression.

Not being valid and not being reasonable are different things, IMO. I don't think anyone is arguing someone else did it. Or at least, I haven't seen that in many threads. MOO.
 
Also, it was found on what is known as a "use point." There was enough DNA deposited by multiple snappings/unsnappings to get a few swabs (and I bet a big box of donuts there's plenty more left on the sheath).

The idea that someone broke into BK's apt and stole his Ka-Bar knife and sheath; drove a car with his phone in it, a car that matches the description of his own car; turned the phone off, then murdered, left the sheath to frame BK (WHY?) and then drove in roundabout fashion to BK's apartment to park the car; then stole the car again around 9 am and drove to the murder scene is preposterous, to me. An unknown person (BK had few associations, so might as well say a stranger who hated him) steals his phone, knife, sheath and car; kills 4 people (three of whom BK had interacted with on Insta before the murders IMO); then drives around Idaho back to Pullman; parks the car; then steals it again? Really?

And such a person wouldn't be worried about getting victim blood in the car (just his own DNA). Why is BK so worried about hiding his trash? Because he knows how LE uses trash to match DNA and he knows the DNA is on the missing sheath.

Then, after visiting the murder scene, this car thief (never reported by BK) drives the same route as the night before. Wow.

Why didn't BK report all this? THat's clearly what all those asks by LE were after. Come forward and tell us the story, even if you have any knowledge about this situation. That would be the time for BK to exonerate himself.

And if he has this story to tell about the car being stolen, he should have had an early prelim and said exactly that. If his claim is that he himself slept in late, so this person could steal his car twice and bring it back twice, then yeah, that's a weak alibi. How did the person break into the car? There ought to be have been signs of hotwiring. Why is BK himself SEEN ON VIDEO at Albertson's and the Coffee Stand and one other place during the second "theft." How does BK know to go the same route as his ostensible enemy?

This is laughable. IMO. If it weren't so awfully tragic. But the story of a frame-up (which requires even more knowledge and actions by the perp than what I listed off the top of my head) is extremely far-fetched. And this person (the scoundrel who framed BK) is approximately his height and has a forehead that looks like BK's. Wow. So many amazing coincidences.

Occam's Razor, for me. Respectfully disagreeing with the "someone stole his phone, knife and car and impersonated him" theory (and BK's car phone and PERSON drive the same route the next morning - pausing at 1122 King Road, proceeding south, through Lewiston/Clarkston; getting out of his car; seen on camera in Albertson's and elsewhere).

How does BK know to drive to 1122 the next morning, then go on the same route that his stolen car went the night before (purportedly - according only to speculation here on WS, AFAIK).

I think my questions are good ones - anyone have any answers to this last one? Because we know for sure he did that the next morning. Seen at Albertson's, seen at the coffee stand - and there's one more place where his phone pauses. His car and his phone are in the same place as his body Sunday morning, if you ask me.

IME. IMO.
You don't have to convince me, I do not think that some other killer found or stole BK's knife sheath, then used it, then left it behind either accidentally or to frame him. Odds are against that. Common sense and Occam's Razor.

Posts keep coming up where someone says:

"Just because BK's DNA is on the knife sheath doesn't mean he was there."

But I pointed out that if the defense wants to go this route then they need to give the jury an alternative suspect. They would also need to give the jury some credible answers as to when, where, why, how this could have happened. Like when did BK acquire the sheath, where did he keep it, did he lose it somewhere or was it stolen out of his car or apartment or car? When did he last see it? Who was he with when he last saw it? ETC......

I don't think this is a realistic defense, also it is a dangerous defense. Why dangerous?

Because this defense requires the defense to admit in open court that yes this is BK's DNA.

There is nothing a jury likes more than for the defense to confirm that their client left behind his DNA. This erases reasonable doubt and I believe would lead to a slam dunk conviction. Jurys want to be confident in the DNA results. Jurys love DNA, it helps them feel confident that they are not condemning an innocent man.

No, I think the defense will take both other routes with the DNA:

1.) File a Motion to get the DNA thrown out. This would include a hearing where the defense argues for their Motion to exclude the DNA evidence and the prosecution argues for their Opposition Motion, their Motion to keep the DNA evidence in. This can also include presenting evidence and calling witnesses.

2.) If the defense's Motion to exclude the DNA evidence is denied and the prosecution's Motion is granted, then the defense would have to try to cast as much doubt as possible on the DNA results.This would include expert witness testimony to cast doubt on the testing results, and possibly trying to prove the DNA was compromised in some way even before being tested.

2 Cents
 
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Not being valid and not being reasonable are different things, IMO. I don't think anyone is arguing someone else did it. Or at least, I haven't seen that in many threads. MOO.


MOO evidence suppression, or mitigation will be almost the sole fighting focus of the defense, as MOO the facts cannot be argued away.

MOO To follow up on a possible win by the defense of suppressing evidence, or of evidence being successfully mitigated by a defense expert's testimony, AT will present at least one alternative theory.
 
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