4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 75

[schooling]

This would depend on how often he was in the area. Every two or three weeks or every day just prior to the crime? MOO

We really do not know his movements between the crime and his trip. MOO

He may have had more than one phone. MOO

The phone number in the att warrant is redacted:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022823%20Order%20to%20Seal%20and%20Redact%20-%20ATT%201.pdf

Three unknown numbers in the verizon and tmobile warrants:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20Verizon%20Wireless.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20T-Mobile.pdf

One Verizon warrant and one ATT warrant are completely sealed:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20-%20Verizon%20Wireless.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022823%20Order%20to%20Seal%20-%20ATT.pdf

And the ATT GPS coordinates warrant gives no Ph#:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022823%20Order%20to%20Seal%20and%20Redact%20-%20ATT.pdf

If he was stalking those 12 times, why didn't he turn his phone off? MOO

From my reading of cell coverage in Moscow, it is poor in certain areas...not suddenly...according to users, the coverage drops out depending on the area you are in and your provider.

Who's the Best Carrier In Moscow? 27 People Agree It's This.

The best signal in the neighborhood is...

www.cellreception.com

People might have avoided the King Road area due to heavy police/press presence and the murderer/s not being apprehended yet. MOO

Personal experience: I was in Gainesville during Rolling: After the murders, many people left school and went home. My program did not allow that option so I stayed home and did not venture out unless absolutely necessary. I went to school and back not stopping anywhere. I did not go out for anything other than school lectures/labs, grocery food and gas. I particularly remember not wanting to go to the grocery store right down my street (I did go, but rarely). I avoided traveling anywhere near the crime scene locations. MOO

I'm sure they'll roll out every instrument possible to test coverage, signal strength, using the radio in his phone and/or similar radios. The prosecution isn't going to take that evidence into court without an expert witness who will have accounted for all of that. With the recent rulings around CLSI evidence and it's admissibility in court they'll be extra careful in order to avoid the possibility of appeal IMO.

It's an obvious place for the defense to attack. Their issue is that a car that looks 98% like Bryan's is seen on various cameras in a eastward direction before the crime, and westward after that just so happens to corroborate the cell evidence.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

As speculation, this is fine. But juries are instructed not to speculate, but to base their conclusions from the evidence and reasonable inferences from the evidence. If the jury is to find reasonable doubt, the defense will have to produce testimony to support an alternative purpose for a lot of adverse facts. MOO.

But I haven't come to any conclusions that aren't fully reasonable and some wasn't even speculation. IMO, jurors are likely to do the same, even free of speculation.

For example, the prosecution says "BK went to his parent's in PA a month after the murders." As a juror, I'd hear "BK spent the holidays with his family." That isn't speculation. That's fact, just a different angle than the prosecution wants. If the prosecution wants me to see this as suspicious, they have to give me a reason it's suspicious. Unless they can, then I suspect what some people hear is that a grad student went home for the holidays. MOO.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

One thing I find confusing about the footprint -- there was apparently enough organic material (presumably blood) to spread in a big enough "puddle" so as to leave an identifiable diamond shaped ("Vans-like") tread pattern, yet at the same time it was not enough material to be visible to the naked eye and was found only with use of Amido black?

Aren't these situations somewhat contradictory?

The only easy explanation that comes to mind would be if the footprint was made and visible, and then wiped up so no longer visible but still identifiable with the enhancing techniques. But DM would have seen him bend over and wipe away the print if it happened on his way out, yes?

Or maybe the print was made through shoe cover booties, such that the bootie absorbed the visible blood but the tread was still there to be found by the Amido black? (but then again, if there were other, progressively less bloody prints leading up to that one, that wasn't mentioned so we don't know about them).

What am I missing?

MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

One thing I find confusing about the footprint -- there was apparently enough organic material (presumably blood) to spread in a big enough "puddle" so as to leave an identifiable diamond shaped ("Vans-like") tread pattern, yet at the same time it was not enough material to be visible to the naked eye and was found only with use of Amido black?

Aren't these situations somewhat contradictory?

The only easy explanation that comes to mind would be if the footprint was made and visible, and then wiped up so no longer visible but still identifiable with the enhancing techniques. But DM would have seen him bend over and wipe away the print if it happened on his way out.

Or maybe the print was made through shoe cover booties, such that the bootie absorbed the visible blood but the tread was still there to be found by the Amido black? (but then again, if there were other, progressively less bloody prints leading up to that one, that wasn't mentioned so we don't know about them.

What am I missing?

MOO

Someone cleaned up? Several times, I've come back to the neighbor's report of an open door at 8:30 in the morning. BK's phone was supposedly back at the house at 9 am.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Someone cleaned up? Several times, I've come back to the neighbor's report of an open door at 8:30 in the morning. BK's phone was supposedly back at the house at 9 am.

Are you suggesting he went back in the house the next morning?

 

[Sundog]

But I haven't come to any conclusions that aren't fully reasonable and some wasn't even speculation. IMO, jurors are likely to do the same, even free of speculation.

For example, the prosecution says "BK went to his parent's in PA a month after the murders." As a juror, I'd hear "BK spent the holidays with his family." That isn't speculation. That's fact, just a different angle than the prosecution wants. If the prosecution wants me to see this as suspicious, they have to give me a reason it's suspicious. Unless they can, then I suspect what some people hear is that a grad student went home for the holidays. MOO.

I assume that BK's defense attorneys will establish their narrative about the facts in their opening remarks at the trial. This is an opportunity to set the stage for the defense strategy/narrative without having to call a witness (expert or other) to the stand. The prosecution will do the same. So the jury will likely have competing narratives in their minds as the trial begins, as they listen to the evidence and testimony of witnesses (experts, etc.).

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Are you suggesting he went back in the house the next morning?

I've wondered if he did, yes. Otherwise, I can't explain the footprint. Do we think when the girls called their friends, they came and cleaned? I doubt it. So why else was the print not noticeable? MOO.

Though with the friends, that also brings up a good point. Were their footprints cleared? IOW, were their shoes looked at to insure this print was unaccounted for and didn't belong to one of the friends?

 

[Sundog]

I've wondered if he did, yes. Otherwise, I can't explain the footprint. Do we think when the girls called their friends, they came and cleaned? I doubt it. So why else was the print not noticeable? MOO.

Though with the friends, that also brings up a good point. Were their footprints cleared? IOW, were their shoes looked at to insure this print was unaccounted for and didn't belong to one of the friends?

If BK went back to the house that morning, then wouldn't he have retrieved the sheath?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

If BK went back to the house that morning, then wouldn't he have retrieved the sheath?

Not if he couldn't find it. We don't know how visible it was. It was to the side of MM, but was it covered in blood? Was she leaning on it? He also may not have wanted to leave his DNA on the bed/covers. We don't know if he knew where he lost it. He may have gotten back home and realized he lost the sheath, so he may have gone back to see if he dropped it, saw that print and wiped it before leaving the home.

I don't know, it's just a thought because I can't explain how the footprint wasn't seen on first processing or even with the naked eye. So that leads me to: did the killer clean? Did someone else clean? And if so, who is someone else?

MOO.

 

[wary]

But I haven't come to any conclusions that aren't fully reasonable and some wasn't even speculation. IMO, jurors are likely to do the same, even free of speculation.

For example, the prosecution says "BK went to his parent's in PA a month after the murders." As a juror, I'd hear "BK spent the holidays with his family." That isn't speculation. That's fact, just a different angle than the prosecution wants. If the prosecution wants me to see this as suspicious, they have to give me a reason it's suspicious. Unless they can, then I suspect what some people hear is that a grad student went home for the holidays. MOO.

Right. Although I’m strongly leaning toward the prosecution’s side of things, I’ve never seen anything suspicious about BK going home for Christmas.

Have you seen anything that implies that the prosecution intends to try to turn it into something suspicious? (Obviously, they have to SAY something about it, to clarify why various pieces of evidence have an East Coast provenance.)

 

[Montecore1]

But how do four 20-somethings who don't seem to be from wealthy backgrounds have so much money in college that they even need this many financial institutions? As SGH said, it was like 8 or 9 different financial institutions counting the credit unions. I don't believe it's student loans (certainly not federal student loans, and they'd have no reason to get private loans). I get what you're saying about people knowing each other and having the same bank, but 8-9 different banks? And college aged kids, all of whom need that many?

This whole case is very weird.

This has me wondering as well...but even more so why do they all have credit card readers (Square/Block) IMO

Im not saying they were up to anything nefarious maybe just the opposite but either way IMO it's a valid question.

I'm inclined to think K may have intended to sleep in her own bed, and may have even started out there, crating Murphy there for the night, but my guess is that she moved into M's room to connect with M about their attempt to reach the ex, or due to whatever then triggered those calls. I suppose they could have texted each other about it rather than being in the same room, but it seems more likely to me they were in the same room.

Anyway we don't know for sure but I think it's likely K was already in M's room and maybe even had nodded off or otherwise decided to stay in M's room when the killer arrived.

I have always speculated that both were still awake and just laying there chatting into the night. This was the last time they were going to really hang out before there adult, post college lives would begin.

MOO they could have been laying there with the lights dimmed and the killer walked in and surprised them...possibly the reason KG's wounds were worst. Im speculating KG was on the outside of the bed and could have fought back and MM maybe just curled up in a ball against the wall? IMO

then how will it look that between Nov 14th and mid DEc when BK left for PA with his Dad, his phone never pinged again in that area? Did his regular/normalised activity prior to Nov 13th just suddenly stop? Did he continue the driving/shopping/jogging but with phone turned off?

Interesting and good observation, but do we know for sure that his phone didn't ping during that time frame?

I've been told that attorney's like to have jurors with my profession. However, I could be that juror. I always wonder which is worse--a guilty person going free or an innocent person rotting in jail or worse, being executed--and the guilty person being free.

IMO, TWISI, MOO, IMHO thats an easy answer. It would 100% be the latter...
Blackstone's Ratio

 

[Auntie Cipation]

If BK went back to the house that morning, then wouldn't he have retrieved the sheath?

It was upstairs. I don't know if I can entertain the idea that he went back in, but if he did, it's entirely possible that any number of things prevented him from making it upstairs to get it.

 

[maskedwoman]

One thing I find confusing about the footprint -- there was apparently enough organic material (presumably blood) to spread in a big enough "puddle" so as to leave an identifiable diamond shaped ("Vans-like") tread pattern, yet at the same time it was not enough material to be visible to the naked eye and was found only with use of Amido black?

Aren't these situations somewhat contradictory?

The only easy explanation that comes to mind would be if the footprint was made and visible, and then wiped up so no longer visible but still identifiable with the enhancing techniques. But DM would have seen him bend over and wipe away the print if it happened on his way out, yes?

Or maybe the print was made through shoe cover booties, such that the bootie absorbed the visible blood but the tread was still there to be found by the Amido black? (but then again, if there were other, progressively less bloody prints leading up to that one, that wasn't mentioned so we don't know about them).

What am I missing?

MOO

Only that one footprint is mentioned in the PCA, but we shouldn't assume it was the only footprint present jsst like we shouldn't assume there were bloody footprints everywhere. IIRC, it was suggested that this one latent footprint was specifically called out because, due to its location, it supported DM's statement about the intruder walking past her bedroom door. There could have been a whole line of footprints that gradually became fainter and this latent one was the only one they mentioned. We will eventually find out how many total footprints there were.

 

[Justice101]

I'd work for free to be that fly imo jmo

Every time some discovery evidence gets given to the defense from the prosecution and his attorney gives it to BK... there's got to be a lot of "uhhn, uhhh, awwww...... well..." with BK trying to make up some crazy reasoning of how to defend it.

I am fairly confident (that is, just my opinion) that there is going to be an overwhelming pile of evidence proving BK's guilt.

Any allusions of grandeur that BK would have about giving reasonable doubt, is going to be poo-pooed by the attorney recommending BK consider a plea deal.

 

[maskedwoman]

It was upstairs. I don't know if I can entertain the idea that he went back in, but if he did, it's entirely possible that any number of things prevented him from making it upstairs to get it.

Agree. If he went back, he ran the risk of leaving more forensic evidence or being caught at the scene. I do believe he drove past the next morning because he wanted to know what was happening. Or not happening.

 

[Justice101]

Me too because I assumed the sheath was attached to his pants somehow. Why would it be sitting around and not kept on his clothing so he could pull the knife out when needed? And why wouldn't he notice it was missing when he was done with the knife and wanted to put it back in the sheath for his exit?

If it was on his belt, it would stay on his belt. You can't rip leather off leather like that. Leather is really tough.

However, I think he put the sheath in his Dickies coveralls and it fell out of his front pocket.

that is... if he didn't plant it as evidence.. thinking he had wiped off ALL of his DNA beforehand.

That's still my theory... crazy as it sounds, that he thought he would taunt LE with a knife sheath with no DNA on it.

 

[mickey2942]

Have they decided on change of venue? I can't imagine this trial to be held in Moscow, ID.

 

[Cool Cats]

Have they decided on change of venue? I can't imagine this trial to be held in Moscow, ID.

Too soon. BK hasn't even entered his plea yet. Judge still needs the June hearing to decide if there is enough evidence to go forward to trial.

 

[schooling]

Only that one footprint is mentioned in the PCA, but we shouldn't assume it was the only footprint present jsst like we shouldn't assume there were bloody footprints everywhere. IIRC, it was suggested that this one latent footprint was specifically called out because, due to its location, it supported DM's statement about the intruder walking past her bedroom door. There could have been a whole line of footprints that gradually became fainter and this latent one was the only one they mentioned. We will eventually find out how many total footprints there were.

And judging by the early descriptions of the crime scene being 'the worst' that investigators had ever seen...

There were likely other footprints.

 

[U.N. Known]

What specific holes?

1. the time lapse between the crime and LE arrival (maybe nothing, but maybe something)
2. the possible misidentification of the model year of the Elantra
3. no license plate number identification for the suspect's car
4. no sightings of BK himself in the car
5. the phone pings put BK in the area, but cannot alone place him at the house prior to the murders or the day after (if he went back there should be video evidence of the car as there was from the night before)
6. no known connection between BK and any of the victims' (from verifiable/reliable sources)

All of the above is based on the current information that is available, not on what LE may have discovered after the gag order was put in place and the warrants sealed.