TN - Shooting at private Christian Covenant School, Nashville, suspect dead, multiple victims, 27 Mar 2023

[Rolypolyoly]

So far, judging by her last message to a friend, it seems like her main motive was a death wish. She chose suicide by cop as the method. Even so, there was no need for anyone else to die. Like too many before her, she deliberately ruined innocent people's lives to achieve infamy. (JMO)

I'm wondering if she just wanted to hurt her family in the worst way possible. "Hey Mom and Dad, look what you made me do" and they have to live with that. The pain of losing their child, the pain if knowing their child is the reason 3 she's of parents are grieving for theirs, 6 families all grieving because their child chose to murder people to punish them and taint their lives and maybe their position in the community forever.

This is just a thought of what may have been her motivator though, I'm not in any way blaming her parents, they are victims too. JMO

 

[mooseandcoffee]

I wonder if it is appropriate to discuss school shootings with elementary school students or not. Maybe if they bring it up.

Although, when I was in elementary school, we had "nuclear bomb" drills. As if that isn't mentally disturbing, I don't know what is...

I teach in an elementary school. When we have active shooter drills--and sadly, we have to--the kids know a lot about other shootings. They have a lot of questions that they should never have to think about.

 

[indicolite22]

I'm wondering if she just wanted to hurt her family in the worst way possible. "Hey Mom and Dad, look what you made me do" and they have to live with that. The pain of losing their child, the pain if knowing their child is the reason 3 she's of parents are grieving for theirs, 6 families all grieving because their child chose to murder people to punish them and taint their lives and maybe their position in the community forever.

This is just a thought of what may have been her motivator though, I'm not in any way blaming her parents, they are victims too. JMO

She did hurt her family, but it could have been even worse for them - they could have been killed. Some past shooters murdered family members first before moving on to strangers.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

You make a good point about public disclosure removing mystique.

I want to say that I intended no disrespect in my earlier post for anyone who wants to read the shooter’s writings.

I guess the truth is that I just can’t handle it. Like many here, I have school-age little ones, my grandkids, who live far away.… I can’t even bear to ask my own child if the kids are asking questions, or if they are afraid.

Maybe the kids don’t live in fear, as the news of school shootings have become a common occurrence to them anymore. Is there a general acceptance by school kids of this ‘new normal’?

If so, that really scares me.

I don't think that the kids have accepted it. We, as a nation, have done so.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

She did hurt her family, but it could have been even worse for them - they could have been killed. Some past shooters murdered family members first before moving on to strangers.

Of course, but killing them doesn't really hurt them iykwim?, they would just be dead, but this? Making them live with what she did, that's a real world of hurt that will haunt them for many years to come, will they ever really have peace again?.

 

[10ofRods]

I can understand sympathy for the victims, but I find the perpetrator interesting, is there a way to ever identify these people before they commit the crimes?

When we look back at these shooters, Adam Lanza, other school shooters, we really can see a lot of problems...but not any specific reason for placing them on a 72 hour hold. And the closest ones, parents who should have alerted LEO, often were the ones who assisted the perpetrator with obtaining a weapon, as in the Highland Park shooter or Ethan Crumbley's parents.

As a teacher of adults, I do think that knowing more about the minds of such shooters is helpful. I've had guns in the classroom and I've had two young men (both very much into guns) explore such violent ideologies in their papers that I felt I needed to intervene in some way. One of them came back a decade later and said I may have had made the difference for him (he was a postal worker when I had him in class); he said "You kept me from going postal." There was a lot more to it. Apparently, I helped him steer toward a different career in which he became successful. I also changed his attitudes about women (it was a woman a work he was thinking of harming). He is now 50 years old, married, and seems to be doing well.

He was 22 at the time. See something, say something. The weird thing right now is that most people who might be disturbed or angry enough to do something awful...know a lot more about hiding it.

IMO.

 

[indicolite22]

Of course, but killing them doesn't really hurt them iykwim?, they would just be dead, but this? Making them live with what she did, that's a real world of hurt that will haunt them for many years to come, will they ever really have peace again?.

It depends whether the parents blame themselves or not. Perhaps they could not have prevented the tragedy. They didn't know about the weapons hidden in their house.

 

[MsMarple]

"Police also say she planned to attack a mall and family members, but she was shot dead at Covenant before she could murder any more."

Audrey Hale's parents 'couldn't accept' she was gay and trans

Church coordinator Norma, 61, and her husband Ronald, 64, refused to let Hale - who had recently adopted the name Aiden and used he/him pronouns - dress as a man in their home.

www.dailymail.co.uk

For someone with such a meticulous plan how exactly was Hale going to get out of the school in order to go on and kill family and mall shoppers? It makes no sense; surely he knew he'd never make it out of the school.

This plan of his, at least what we currently know about it, sounds almost like a child's fantasy (albeit a deadly one), not something that he successfully thought through. I wonder if Hale was aware of the flaws. MOO

 

[JennieM]

As a teacher of adults, I do think that knowing more about the minds of such shooters is helpful. I've had guns in the classroom and I've had two young men (both very much into guns) explore such violent ideologies in their papers that I felt I needed to intervene in some way. One of them came back a decade later and said I may have had made the difference for him (he was a postal worker when I had him in class); he said "You kept me from going postal." There was a lot more to it. Apparently, I helped him steer toward a different career in which he became successful. I also changed his attitudes about women (it was a woman a work he was thinking of harming). He is now 50 years old, married, and seems to be doing well.

He was 22 at the time. See something, say something. The weird thing right now is that most people who might be disturbed or angry enough to do something awful...know a lot more about hiding it.

IMO.

I wish we had more people like you in the world.

 

[Allabouttrial]

It depends whether the parents blame themselves or not. Perhaps they could not have prevented the tragedy. They didn't know about the weapons hidden in their house.

I can imagine they do. What parent wouldn't feel, in part, responsible in some way? 'If only' will probably be playing a big part in their thoughts right now.

 

[Cindizzi]

The assailant who killed six people at a Christian elementary school in Nashville had legally purchased seven firearms recently — including the three used in the shooting — and was being treated for an emotional disorder, the Nashville police chief said on Tuesday.

The shooter, who the police have identified as Audrey E. Hale, was under doctor’s care, said Chief John Drake of the Nashville Metro Police Department at a news briefing on Tuesday afternoon. Chief Drake added that the shooter’s parents felt that their child “should not own weapons.”

The shooter purchased seven firearms from five local gun stores and stashed them around the house, Mr. Drake said, using three of them on Monday to kill three 9-year-old children and three adults. The parents initially believed that their child no longer owned any firearms after selling a weapon, they told the police in interviews.

[…]

The Latest: Nashville Shooting: Police Say Shooter Was Under Doctor’s Care for ‘Emotional Disorder’

The authorities were still searching for a motive behind the attack, which killed six people, including three children, at a Christian elementary school. Here’s what to know:

www.nytimes.com

 

[formerlyme]

Am I correct at this point the only info about treatment for an emotional disorder is from the parents?
I know it is still early in the investigation but we are solely on what they said right now correct?

 

[JennieM]

Am I correct at this point the only info about treatment for an emotional disorder is from the parents?
I know it is still early in the investigation but we are solely on what they said right now correct?

I think from the parents but also the doctor. I am sure the police has contacted the doctor.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

It's happened far too many times that the media tries pointing out bad things that have happened in mass murderers' pasts while obviously painting them in sympathetic light as someone who was driven to crime.

Or they're just presenting a person's past and experiences in the hopes of recognizing some sort of motive.

 

[neesaki]

If this article is accurate, I wonder why, as a 28 y/o adult, she didn’t move out on her own…. if she felt her parents wouldn’t let her be who she really was. Could she have been mentally incapable of living independently ?
Instead she chose to go on a killing spree.

Audrey Hale's parents 'couldn't accept' she was gay and trans

Church coordinator Norma, 61, and her husband Ronald, 64, refused to let Hale - who had recently adopted the name Aiden and used he/him pronouns - dress as a man in their home.

www.dailymail.co.uk

EDITED : quoted wrong post

 

[formerlyme]

If this article is accurate, I wonder why, as a 28 y/o adult, she didn’t move out on her own…. if she felt her parents wouldn’t let her be who she really was. Could she have been mentally incapable of living independently ?
Instead she chose to go on a killing spree.

Audrey Hale's parents 'couldn't accept' she was gay and trans

Church coordinator Norma, 61, and her husband Ronald, 64, refused to let Hale - who had recently adopted the name Aiden and used he/him pronouns - dress as a man in their home.

www.dailymail.co.uk

EDITED : quoted wrong post

starving artist? I think also the pandemic and rent increases have made it much more comment for adults to move back home.

 

[Cedars]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>


This raises a question for me: why have police even called it 'a manifesto'?

Is it because that's what she wrote on top of it "My Manifesto"?

Why give it such a pretentious name? IMO, in reality it was a suicide note.

JMO

 

[10ofRods]

I can’t even remember the last school that I’ve seen that just had unprotected glass doors. My kids elementary & middle schools had glass in the front doors but they were made with that metal stuff in the glass. Two sets of doors both sets locked and required ID to get through, then once you made it to the lobby the secretary sat behind bullet proof glass and she could buzz you into the hallway that led to the classrooms.

I don’t understand how there are so many school shootings and so many schools that are so easily accessed by shooters.

Where I live, many private schools (and some public) do not have this. The private school my daughters attended for about a year opens onto a large parking lot, has no lobby whatsoever, just unprotected classrooms. Administration is located two buildings away. We have no state or local codes governing private school architecture.

There's no buzz through system at most schools, just a clangy chain link gate. The fences (often as short as 4') and gates appeared in the last couple of years. There's no bullet proof glass in any school in my county. I don't think the school boards have ever considered it.

It's something to think about, though. Advocate for esp. if you are a parent - they might listen to parents at the board meetings.

IMO.

 

[JennieM]

Michael Hill's family releases statement​

Michael Hill was a custodian of The Covenant School and was killed in the shooting there yesterday.

His family have released a statement, which has been shared by Nashville's News Channel 5’s reporter Kelsey Gibbs.

"We would like the thank the Nashville community for all the continued thoughts and prayers. As we grieve and to try to grasp any sense of understanding of why this happened, we continue to ask for support. We pray for the Covenant School and are so grateful that Michael was beloved by the faculty and students who filled him with joy for 14 years"

You can read the full statement from the Hill family here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-65087221

 

[x_files]

One huge stumbling block to seeing if such therapies and treatments would work is that it is very, very hard to force people into any kind of treatment or therapy against their will.

Those with some types of criminal convictiions can be ordered to take "this or that" type classes as part of their rehabilitation. But... those with out such convictions essentially cannot be forced to take any kind of therapy.

Evidently, neither this rampager nor the last rampager in Texas had criminal convictions. Rather, I think a substantial majority do not.

Needless to say, a significant majority of "angry" types dont view themselves as "angry"- intense? Possibly. Focused? Probably. But "angry" and in need of voluntary therapy? Not very likely.

I wish we had solutions.