UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #15

[Sundial]

Im not so sure about it.

He was new there and also lower in rank to Consultants.
A registrar - in the middle of training?

I guess the Consultants were discussing this matter in their own circle.

JMO

I guess we will have to wait and see. I mean, they also had a student nurse there during the case(s) with the triplets also in the middle of training.
Even previous colleagues lower ranked had stated in their messages her “run of bad luck”, concerned for her or their dismay at losing an otherwise well and stable baby.

Or, if guilty, she must have been rather manipulative to have kept him “on side” so to speak. There’s also the request for dr choc specifically to return to the ward. In itself it could be purely innocent, but on the other hand, I hope we might hear more about this and what the reasons were specifically for him to reattend.

All so bizarre imo.
JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

I have wondered, recently, if he was going undercover, to try and figure it all out.

I have wondered that since we learned more about the senior doctors and their attempts at getting the management to investigate her. Once they decided to start reporting their suspicions and asking for her to be removed, they must have discussed their suspicions with the other doctors and asked for their thoughts on the situation. At the very least, they'd warn them to keep an eye on her while she is on the floor.

I've wondered if maybe Dr choc was. originally interested in her, but then found out about the rumours and decided to keep his connection with her so he could monitor the situation?

I've seen this brought up a few times now but although the unamed female doctor said there were comments about LL amongst junior doctors, they were not about LL doing deliberate harm etc. so I think he just genuinely liked her. Plus I don't think he would have let it carry on beyond Baby O's death if he had been at all suspicious at that point. Will be interesting to seee what he does once she's moved to clerical though.

Mr Myers asked: “Did you hear gossip, comment, finger-pointing about Lucy Letby?”

She replied: “Yes, but vaguely. Nothing concrete implicating deaths and increasing mortality rates.”

Mr Myers said: “Who were making these comments?”

The doctor said: “Other junior doctors, some consultant colleagues. But again not in a way that would make you think anything untoward in the way of harm being done was going on.”

Doctor ‘shocked’ as Lucy Letby asked if baby was ‘leaving here alive’

A DOCTOR was “shocked” when Lucy Letby asked whether a baby was “leaving here alive”, the nurse’s murder trial heard.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[ColourPurple]

I guess we will have to wait and see. I mean, they also had a student nurse there during the case(s) with the triplets also in the middle of training.
Even previous colleagues lower ranked had stated in their messages her “run of bad luck”, concerned for her or their dismay at losing an otherwise well and stable baby.

Or, if guilty, she must have been rather manipulative to have kept him “on side” so to speak. There’s also the request for dr choc specifically to return to the ward. In itself it could be purely innocent, but on the other hand, I hope we might hear more about this and what the reasons were specifically for him to reattend.

All so bizarre imo.
JMO

Whichever nurse asked the other doctor that, I wonder how he felt , having just arrived to help with a very poorly child, only to then be asked if the other doctor was around and whether he could come?

 

[katydid23]

Im not so sure about it.

He was new there and also lower in rank to Consultants.
A registrar - in the middle of training?

I guess the Consultants were discussing this matter in their own circle.

JMO

True, but the consultants were desperate to keep her from harming any more babies but the management would not take her off the floor.

I'd think the consultants would have done two important things----

Ask the registrars and doctors in training if they had seen anything suspicious, since they spend a lot of time around the nurses on the floor...

AND ask them to keep an eye on her because they are concerned more incidents could happen.

I do believe they would discuss these things with the trainees because they spend more time on the floor doing routine tasks around the babies and nurses than the consultants do.

I get the feeling that Dr B and Dr J really did want to protect the babies on the floor but they couldn't get the help they desperately needed from management.

 

[Dotta]

I guess we will have to wait and see. I mean, they also had a student nurse there during the case(s) with the triplets also in the middle of training.
Even previous colleagues lower ranked had stated in their messages her “run of bad luck”, concerned for her or their dismay at losing an otherwise well and stable baby.

Or, if guilty, she must have been rather manipulative to have kept him “on side” so to speak. There’s also the request for dr choc specifically to return to the ward. In itself it could be purely innocent, but on the other hand, I hope we might hear more about this and what the reasons were specifically for him to reattend.

All so bizarre imo.
JMO

There was also another doctor (female) who seemed to be LL's friend.
The one who asked her to emigrate to New Z. with her.

I think LL had a circle of friends in the hospital.

JMO

 

[Paracelsus]

It's truly confounding. I wonder are we ever going to find out what drove the management's position on LL?

Agree, confounding. However, I would expect the overwhelming pressure on the NHS and the specialist nurse staffing level crisis to be the management's defence. These both will have been strong influential factors for them to want to re-instate LL back to the ward. In addition to this without any tangible evidence, management would struggle at the time to keep LL withdrawn from duty without risking being taken to tribunal.

Why management didn't want to get the police involved at this point is very confusing...

 

[Sweeper2000]

" I can’t see her taking it home and knowing full well how dire the situation could possibly be."


The problem is, you are discussing her as if she is logical and rational and is thinking clearly. IF GUILTY of the alleged crimes, then she obviously has mental problems and does not think rationally.

If Guilty, then it would not be that big of a deal to take a piece of paper home, compared to the highly risky, brazen, crazy actions she has been accused of by the state. Why would she care about a random handover sheet if she dared to poison a baby with insulin or inject air in their bloodstream?

”why would she care”?

that’s kind of my point. I cannot deduce the potential value of this particular handover sheet from any angle, logical or otherwise. Especially when the presence of any med notes found at her home doesn’t really create any sign of “memento” keeping imo. not just that but to carry home the handover sheet for the day she texted the “worried“ text wouldn’t make sense to me when she is obviously aware of potential trouble.

 

[Sundial]

Whichever nurse asked the other doctor that, I wonder how he felt , having just arrived to help with a very poorly child, only to then be asked if the other doctor was around and whether he could come?

More so, whether more qualified or experienced given the nature of things, can you imagine being asked if the junior doctor was around instead. Seems a bit like undermining, similar to the nurse who felt the baby needed to be moved to room 1 ? And LL disagreed with it.
Similar to the undermining of her superior asking her more than once not to keep going back into the family room of grieving parents.

 

[Sundial]

There was also another doctor (female) who seemed to be LL's friend.
The one who asked her to emigrate to New Z. with her.

I think LL had a circle of friends in the hospital.

JMO

Of course. But wasn’t she also a bit bewildered one of the other babies (I can’t remember which) became poorly too after LL had apparently told her there were no concerns. Or something similar.

 

[Sundial]

Of course. But wasn’t she also a bit bewildered one of the other babies (I can’t remember which) became poorly too after LL had apparently told her there were no concerns. Or something similar.

To add to this, I think it was baby G, but I could be mistaken.
There was a text exchange between her and this female doctor friend “Ali” unless I’ve misinterpreted it, she asked about her shift and LL replied it was ok (or something similar), but there were discrepancies in tests or something. When LL was discussing with her via text what happened to the baby at a later time, the doctor was quite shocked by it.
Interestingly as the case has progressed, we’ve seen less (if any) discussion with this female doctor since and shes predominantly (or seems to be) messaging dr choc instead.

JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

To add to this, I think it was baby G, but I could be mistaken.
There was a text exchange between her and this female doctor friend “Ali” unless I’ve misinterpreted it, she asked about her shift and LL replied it was ok (or something similar), but there were discrepancies in tests or something. When LL was discussing with her via text what happened to the baby at a later time, the doctor was quite shocked by it.
Interestingly as the case has progressed, we’ve seen less (if any) discussion with this female doctor since and shes predominantly (or seems to be) messaging dr choc instead.

JMO

I think somebody said the junior doctors are only there for so long then move on, maybe she's gone to New Zealand. Would be interesting to see whether LL's crash calls often coincided with Ali's shifts though.

 

[katydid23]

But why would she want someone - anyone, for that matter! - looking more closely at the cases of the babies she, if guilty, had such close contact with and/or responsibility for?

I know this is not helpful but if I were a serial killing nurse, the last thing in the world I'd be doing is actively inviting a colleage into my darkness.

* Not fruit, chocolate.

That is why the question of motive is is important in understanding this crazy case.

IF the motive was just to harm and kill babies and that was allegedly the payoff for the defendant, then it would make no sense to invite someone into her darkness.

However, if her alleged motive was all about gaining attention, being the martyr, playing the victim,

 

[katydid23]

I've seen this brought up a few times now but although the unamed female doctor said there were comments about LL amongst junior doctors, they were not about LL doing deliberate harm etc. so I think he just genuinely liked her. Plus I don't think he would have let it carry on beyond Baby O's death if he had been at all suspicious at that point. Will be interesting to seee what he does once she's moved to clerical though.

Mr Myers asked: “Did you hear gossip, comment, finger-pointing about Lucy Letby?”

She replied: “Yes, but vaguely. Nothing concrete implicating deaths and increasing mortality rates.”

Mr Myers said: “Who were making these comments?”

The doctor said: “Other junior doctors, some consultant colleagues. But again not in a way that would make you think anything untoward in the way of harm being done was going on.”

Doctor ‘shocked’ as Lucy Letby asked if baby was ‘leaving here alive’

A DOCTOR was “shocked” when Lucy Letby asked whether a baby was “leaving here alive”, the nurse’s murder trial heard.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

That's a very good point. After reading it last night, I quickly decided my theory must have been incorrect, as this doctor said there was no discussion of LL doing any harm.

But after sleeping on it, I am wondering if maybe this doctor didn't want to publicly admit the fact that they all suspected that a nurse was attacking babies for a solid year?

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Im not so sure about it.

He was new there and also lower in rank to Consultants.
A registrar - in the middle of training?

I guess the Consultants were discussing this matter in their own circle.

JMO

I was going to post something similar.
He was new there, maybe a junior? I feel he was just hoping for a hookup, or was hooking up with her?
There was something familiar when he offered for her to take his car one time, and he would pick it up in the morning. To me, it came across as if it was something that had happened before, or he had left hers in the morning before. I do think she was playing him, with the carrot like @Sundial said up thread, playing on his naivety and hormones.
JMO

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Agree, confounding. However, I would expect the overwhelming pressure on the NHS and the specialist nurse staffing level crisis to be the management's defence. These both will have been strong influential factors for them to want to re-instate LL back to the ward. In addition to this without any tangible evidence, management would struggle at the time to keep LL withdrawn from duty without risking being taken to tribunal.

Why management didn't want to get the police involved at this point is very confusing...

Hospital ratings.
JMO

 

[Kemug]

Letby messages a colleague after 8.30am to say she had a student nurse in but 'no time to do anything'.
Letby adds: 'She's nice enough but bit hard going to start from scratch with everything when got 3 babies I don't know and 2 hourly. Ah well...'
The Whatsapp conversation continues over the following hour.

Yet again, LL is so, so busy, but she always has plenty of time to be in contact with colleagues, friends and even family on social media. It annoys me.

 

[JosieJo]

JMO if guilty I do feel attention will play a part somewhere..I do wonder if a potential killer may kill based on different emotions

Frustration or being vexed over not nursing babies in itu

Attention from the drama of crash calls

Jealousy when a Dr innocently goes to lunch with a colleague

Enjoying parents grief etc etc

Could someone have a variety of motives depending on their feelings at the time ?

 

[marynnu]

Whichever nurse asked the other doctor that, I wonder how he felt , having just arrived to help with a very poorly child, only to then be asked if the other doctor was around and whether he could come?

Jealousy when a Dr innocently goes to lunch with a colleague

Help please folks! I've totally overlooked any sources re. the above & can't pin them down. If anyone can point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated, thank you. xx

 

[Tortoise]

ohh we're back on

Dan O'Donoghue

Lucy Letby's murder trial continues this morning. We're expecting to hear evidence from expert witness Dr Andreas Marnerides. He'll be taking the court over pathology reports. Ms Letby is accused of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 others. She denies all charges

Jury are currently being read the pathology reports for a number of children in the case - they have been warned that there is a lot of incredibly dense medical detail and will be provided with a glossary of terms afterwards. Dr Marnerides due in witness box later this morning

 

[Tortoise]

Help please folks! I've totally overlooked any sources re. the above & can't pin them down. If anyone can point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated, thank you. xx

reference to a nurse asking specifically for doctor choc, or doctor A as they refer to him in the podcast, is in the latest episode.

The Trial of Lucy Letby, Episode 25: The Triplets, Part 2: Baby P, “He’s not leaving here alive, is he?” she asked a doctor...

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