4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 76

[Dotta]

"BK's attorneys are likely to seize the opportunity to sow doubt about DNA left on a knife sheath at the scene where four University of Idaho students were murdered, according to an attorney."

Bryan Kohberger defense gets boost over knife sheath DNA—Attorney

Journalist Howard Blum says Idaho investigators sent a knife sheath left at the murder scene to be tested by a startup in Texas.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Nila Aella]

That "startup in Texas" has ID'd many UID cold cases on this forum. I respect Othram a lot, as it offers a new opportunity for crimes to be solved as well. It's a much-needed service to families & LE.

Othram - A Revolution in Cold Case Resolution

Othram is revolutionizing how forensic cases are solved, justice is served, and families are mended.

othram.com

Of interest:

Idaho Advanced DNA Cold Case Team​

Idaho Advanced DNA Cold Case Team | Bureau of Justice Assistance

The Idaho State Police (ISP) has been integral in leading sexual assault response culture change in Idaho. The Idaho Cold Case and Advanced DNA Methods (ICCADM) Task Force (also led by ISP, in partnership with the Idaho Prosecuting Attorney’s Association (IPAA), the Idaho Chiefs of Police...

bja.ojp.gov

The Idaho State Police (ISP) has been integral in leading sexual assault response culture change in Idaho. The Idaho Cold Case and Advanced DNA Methods (ICCADM) Task Force (also led by ISP, in partnership with the Idaho Prosecuting Attorney’s Association (IPAA), the Idaho Chiefs of Police Association (ICOPA), the Idaho Sheriff’s Association (ISA), the Idaho Statistical Analysis Center (ISAC), the Rocky Mountain Information Network (RMIN), and Boise State University (BSU)) was established in 2020 to begin investigating and prosecuting cases resulting from unsolved sexual assaults and homicides where DNA evidence still exists and no probative matches exist through CODIS.

(much more at link)

TYboth!
Reading about the Lab in TX:
The process they use is called Forensic-Grade Genome Sequencing (FGGs), trademarked.
They have a dna database: people submit their DNA for the database only: not to get anything from them.
People can either submit it through a swab or they can submit the results they have received from ancestry sites.
They maintain chain of custody.
Their process works for highly degraded, chemically-damaged, contaminated, and mixed-source DNA that other labs have failed processing or with dna that is not suitable for testing with other labs/lab methods.

Genome sequencing:

Othram - A Revolution in Cold Case Resolution

Othram is revolutionizing how forensic cases are solved, justice is served, and families are mended.

othram.com

Rapid familial relationship testing

Othram - A Revolution in Cold Case Resolution

Othram is revolutionizing how forensic cases are solved, justice is served, and families are mended.

othram.com

Database:

Help Families Get the Answers They Deserve

Help law enforcement identify victims, find missing persons, and reveal perpetrators of crimes.

dnasolves.com

From PCA: Only place I find ISP Lab mentioned. And I don't recall any mention of a TX lab. Anyone else see either anywhere else? MOO

On December 27, 2022, Pennsylvania Agents recovered the trash from the Kohberger family residence located in Albrightsville, PA. That evidence was sent to the Idaho State Lab for testing. On December 28,2022, the Idaho State Lab reported that a DNA profile obtained from the trash and the DNA profile obtained from the sheath, identified a male as not being excluded as the bioiogical father of Suspect Profile.

The ISP lab website: the Idaho cold case and advanced dna methods link:
Page not Found: this page may have moved or is no longer available.

https://isp.idaho.gov/forensics/

Something I am curious about. I don't know much about ancestry websites. Would they share their database with a business like this (for people submitting their sample who didn't opt out)? Or do they not share at all?

And: When a process is trademarked: and it goes to court: do they have to provide the details of how they process the sample and the error rates, etc like with other dna testing?

MOO

 

[schooling]

"BK's attorneys are likely to seize the opportunity to sow doubt about DNA left on a knife sheath at the scene where four University of Idaho students were murdered, according to an attorney."

Bryan Kohberger defense gets boost over knife sheath DNA—Attorney

Journalist Howard Blum says Idaho investigators sent a knife sheath left at the murder scene to be tested by a startup in Texas.

www.newsweek.com

That article is so poorly written that the only conclusion you can come to is that the sensationalist Blum has a book to sell (literally) and Newsweek needs clicks.

It states that the local Idaho lab examined the sheath and “found nothing”. Which is a confusing way to say they examined the sheath and managed to successfully pull a male DNA profile. From there you can imply that they came up empty on CODIS because BK was not in the system. The former is in the PCA and not a secret.

To the casual reader it reads like the Texas lab found the DNA on the sheath via some familial exclusive method after the local lab was unable to. Tainting all matches going forward.

This is a good reminder to everyone that the Newsweek brand was purchased by a new owner who’s determined to continue to sink its reputation. It’s not the Newsweek we grew up with.

 

[Nichevo]

I interpret the PCA a bit differently: it is oddly mute, IMO, about when the Hyundai correction(s) took place. We know when WSU Police Department ran the plates, but at that time, the model year did not match what LE was looking for. We also know that LE was deluged with Hyundai tips at that point: so many tips (10,000 +) were being called in, a special FBI call line was started. MOO, I’m not at all convinced the correction & connection to BCK happened as early as most are assuming/speculating.

Others have speculated that the incorrect Hyundai model year was an investigative ploy. I’m not in that camp, and I do find it interesting that the PCA is mute about when those internal corrections actually happpened. MOO & YMMV.

I think I’m in the DNA camp as being the key & have been for a while. I don’t know which family member uploaded their DNA to GEDMatch (presumably), but I do think that was the puzzle piece that made things move at such a rapid pace.

Again, all MOO & like everyone else, I’m impatient (LOL) for more details!

ETA: WSU Police Department

is it not mentioned in the PCA?:

After reviewing the numerous observations of Suspect Vehicle 1, the forensic examiner initially believed that Suspect Vehicle 1 was a 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra. Upon further review, he indicated it could also be a 2011-2016 Hyundai Elantra. As a result, investigators have been reviewing information on persons in possession of a vehicle that is a 2011-2016 white Hyundai Elantra. (Pg 7, paragraph 3)

I guess maybe I see your point, I initially interpreted the “change (I.e. correction)“ happening as the forensic examiner was making his observations.

MOO

 

[SortaSleuthy]

They were able to get a dna profile from the knife sheath snap.

That dna profile a mystery because it was not in any database.

So they run the profile through geneology websites looking for a family match. Bingo they match the dna to BK’s dad who has his dna in a genealogy website.

So they research BK’s dad and lo and behold he has a son who goes to college near Moscow.

They research this son, BK, and lo and behold he has a car that matches the description of the car they are searching for that was near the crime scene at time of the murders.

They get a warrant for BK’s cell records and lo and behold his cell phone was near the crime scene night of murder and turned off at the time of murder.

Enough for arrest. After arrest they get BK’s dna and LO AND BEHOLD it’s a match.

I’m sure I got a few details off here but this is the gist of it yeah?

Outstanding summary!

 

[maskedwoman]

Agreed. They have been in business for 5 years, which is the tail end of what you would call a start up, but they have helped identify an impressive list of Jane/John Does, as well as killers using their techniques. So it's not like LE took a desperate flyer on something without a track record.

Apparently, they charge between $6-10,000, which is extremely reasonable when you consider how much traditional investigation has normally already gone into a case by the time they normally get involved. I would love to learn more about this process, but I think it's safe to call it revolutionary.

 

[maskedwoman]

That article is so poorly written that the only conclusion you can come to is that the sensationalist Blum has a book to sell (literally) and Newsweek needs clicks.

It states that the local Idaho lab examined the sheath and “found nothing”. Which is a confusing way to say they examined the sheath and managed to successfully pull a male DNA profile. From there you can imply that they came up empty on CODIS because BK was not in the system. The former is in the PCA and not a secret.

To the casual reader it reads like the Texas lab found the DNA on the sheath via some familial exclusive method after the local lab was unable to. Tainting all matches going forward.

This is a good reminder to everyone that the Newsweek brand was purchased by a new owner who’s determined to continue to sink its reputation. It’s not the Newsweek we grew up with.

It is poorly written indeed and I'm very disappointed with Blum's comments. Yes, of course, LE wanted to tie someone to that knife sheath. That's their job. But he made it sound like they tasked the lab in Texas with tying the knife specifically to BK, which is ridiculous. They had to do the genealogical work first to even get to BK.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

The school would have to be run by idiots to let someone go with a statement like that but, to be fair, there are a lot of idiots in some surprising places (IMO). Still, there are ways to get rid of an employee without firing them. Companies eliminate positions. Or they reorg and you end up with a transfer to a position they know you can't/won't take.

I'm suspicious of this information myself. For all we know, the sister might have requested a leave of absence. And who would blame her? MOOooo

If you google it, you only get links to some of the....well, lesser mainstream media outlets. I saw one NBC station post it, but it was written by NewsNation.

 

[Helechawagirl]

This was an extremely minute dna sample?

Still the sample produced his DNA so the "new technique " worked if that is what happened.

Any links to confirm?

Tons of links/info at the end of this thread so I won’t repost.

 

[U.N. Known]

jmo imo there are overlapping issues, and LE has to investigate one to get to the other. 2021 is key - but for whom and why? What was happening on SM to connect BK to K, M and X? and how does that tie to both BK and DD (later in March 2021).
All we know is
what SM was used (there may be more in the orders that seal both warrant and affidavit),
the dates,
BK was in PA
K, M and X were in ID
something happened with DD in march 2021 - that's typically spring break - did BK visit ID then?

what else?

I hope we aren't making this case more interesting than it already is, but I agree that there seems to be more than a case of stranger murder.

Regarding what's in bold: good point, but also interesting because none of the victims were in that house in 2021 and Xana was still in HS. I wonder if f the spring break times of the two universities overlapped. If so, would the ID victims have even been in Moscow?

 

[Nila Aella]

I hope we aren't making this case more interesting than it already is, but I agree that there seems to be more than a case of stranger murder.

Regarding what's in bold: good point, but also interesting because none of the victims were in that house in 2021 and Xana was still in HS. I wonder if f the spring break times of the two universities overlapped. If so, would the ID victims have even been in Moscow?

Great points!
This made me wonder if the 2021 time period relates to LE thinking "the house" was the target. MOO

 

[JennyM523]

b&sbm
yet another interesting possibility. I think this whole case is a stretch. imo jmo


Please make this make sense, legal deities, make this make sense! he has a degree in cloud-based forensics, but drives his own car, takes his actual phone, and peels out after a quadruple murder. DD and tinder and other warrants back to 2021. please make this make sense.

Okay.. hold up. The warrants were requested before BK was their only suspect. They were covering all bases - they may have nothing to do with him.

 

[PrairieWind]

Agreed. They have been in business for 5 years, which is the tail end of what you would call a start up, but they have helped identify an impressive list of Jane/John Does, as well as killers using their techniques. So it's not like LE took a desperate flyer on something without a track record.

Apparently, they charge between $6-10,000, which is extremely reasonable when you consider how much traditional investigation has normally already gone into a case by the time they normally get involved. I would love to learn more about this process, but I think it's safe to call it revolutionary.

I think the question is going to be: Is there method generally accepted in the scientific community. Has it been peer reviewed and subject to publication. Can it be tested objectively. Can they demonstrate their error rate. Is there independent research to support their methodology?

 

[jepop]

I notice that this is a Notice of Brady Disclosure (top right and bottom of form) even though it says Brady/Gigilo in the
body of the notice by the prosecutor. JMO

I'd go with what's in the notice if I had to choose, the title of the notice being somewhat like a headline with further details (such as they are!) in the body of the material . MOO

 

[veronica.mars]

I hope we aren't making this case more interesting than it already is, but I agree that there seems to be more than a case of stranger murder.

Regarding what's in bold: good point, but also interesting because none of the victims were in that house in 2021 and Xana was still in HS. I wonder if f the spring break times of the two universities overlapped. If so, would the ID victims have even been in Moscow?

Maybe he visited to check out grad school, ate some vegan pizza at the Mad Greek, and became obsessed with a waitress there, Maddie. (All my own hypotheticals—not necessarily even imo.)

 

[jepop]

I hope we aren't making this case more interesting than it already is, but I agree that there seems to be more than a case of stranger murder.

Regarding what's in bold: good point, but also interesting because none of the victims were in that house in 2021 and Xana was still in HS. I wonder if f the spring break times of the two universities overlapped. If so, would the ID victims have even been in Moscow?

Maybe it has something to do with how long some social media companies hold onto their data. Trying to see when the victims' accounts were first opened in the previous 20 months? Only speaking generally, as I haven't put myself to work trying to figure out the second more specific Tinder warrant for 19 redacted accounts that seeks info on them between March 1st and March 31 2021. I do believe, however, that those 19 accounts were identified via Maddie's and Kaylee's Tinder warrants. MOO.

EBM for spelling

 

[Nila Aella]

I'd go with what's in the notice if I had to choose, the title of the notice being somewhat like a headline with further details (such as they are!) in the body of the material . MOO

The judges order also just uses Brady Disclosure. From reading at Wiki though I realize that it can encompass many different occurrences. MOO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/032823%20Protective%20Order%20-%20BradyGiglio%20Material.pdf

Brady disclosure - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[jepop]

Great points!
This made me wonder if the 2021 time period relates to LE thinking "the house" was the target. MOO

That makes sense to me. I've also posted a lot about the house target angle being a possibility behind the DD warrant going back to Jan 2022. I can envisage a scenario of LE detectives (possibly as expert sources) being able to argue for that in a PC affadavit for warrants of various sorts. MOO

 

[jepop]

It is poorly written indeed and I'm very disappointed with Blum's comments. Yes, of course, LE wanted to tie someone to that knife sheath. That's their job. But he made it sound like they tasked the lab in Texas with tying the knife specifically to BK, which is ridiculous. They had to do the genealogical work first to even get to BK.

I'm drawn back to recalling the Supplemental disclosure re the dna sheath button test result in the Application for WA search warrant of BK's residence. And the absence of the dna sheath test result info in the affadavit supporting all three search warrants in PA. I think LE are way ahead of News Nation's obfusticating report and vague speculative interview with Mr Blum (MOO). IMOO it was a slow news day, time to promote Mr Blum's book and stir the pot.

p6, pp14-15 WA search Warrant App

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

pp10-27

https://www.pacourts.us/Storage/media/pdfs/20230228/185614-dec.29,2022-applicationforsearchwarrantandauthorization.pdf

Edited to fix links.

 

[Teche]

Both the Post and Mail cite News Nation as the source. So, that's the origin point. News Nation wrote an article, and Mail and Post wrote articles saying 'News Nation says this!' And MSN and other aggregators have picked it up and spread it further.

Still not saying it's not true, I'd just like to see it verified by another media outlet using a direct source, rather than just repeating News Nation's work under their own banner.

MOO

I thought the father worked for the school system and mom was a substitute employee. School systems are usually careful about “firing” an employee. A scool could choose not to call a sub to work.