UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #15

[gerbil]

Emphasis IMO.

 

[Sweeper2000]

So, do we think Dr.A has named someone? Or are the asterisks just gor emphasis?

"If *anybody* says something to you about being not good enough or performing adequately I want you to promise me that you'll give my details to provide a statement."

Just for emphasis. Think the context gives the idea that the root of that being addressed/consoled is perceived to be purely in the mind of the person being addressed.

im actually really blooming curious about this doc choc. Its only a little while that he has been at coch, yet it seems these two are actually quite deep which to me is standout. I might have expected so at this level to have developed over more time but I will say it seems he is much more involved than her. I can’t say I think her disposition has actually changed much since the start whereas he seems very full on yet I’m also not really seeing her seeing him as a potential partner. She seems formal he seems very informal indeed. However I don’t know if this simply is some quite young and inexperienced individuals being that along with LL not quite being on the atypically social page.

if I were to gauge this relationship without the context I might say this is one person burning the candle at both ends and the other simply not getting his perspective.

 

[ColourPurple]

Just re-reading the text exchange, and going by this last paragraph I'd say he definitely knew what the consultants had been saying about LL being at all the unexpected collapses , by this point!

The doctor said: “Lucy, if anyone knows how hard you’ve worked over the last three days it’s me.

“The standard of care delivered is tertiary nicu (neonatal intensive care unit) level. If *anybody* says something to you about being not good enough or performing adequately I want you to promise me that you’ll give my details to provide a statement. I don’t care who it is and I don’t care if I’ve left the trust. Promise?”

Letby responded: “Well I sincerely hope I won’t ever be needing a statement. But thank you, I promise.”

The doctor said: “And I don’t either. You’ll know that the coch (Countess of Chester) mortality rate is a bit higher than the network average. It makes people (consultants) look at trends and patterns. That may have been why Dr G came to ask.

Doctor told Lucy Letby: ‘I would trust you with my own children’

A DOCTOR reassured “worried” Lucy Letby that she was “one of a few nurses I would trust with my own children”, her murder trial has heard.

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[ColourPurple]

And not just anyone who had a close relationship with her. You only need look at the appalling damage an out of control social media can inflict upon anyone whose name/face happens to flow into the latest news cycle. This is wholly warranted self-protection.

I'm surprised more of the witnesses here haven't chosen the same degree of anonymity as Dr Choc.

I bet many are wishing they had now!

 

[Anxala]

I bet many are wishing they had now!

Why do you say that? I hope you don't mean it because they've become the objects of SM speculation and abuse?

 

[Sundial]

I wouldn't blame any witnesses from requesting the screen if they had fairly close relations with LL at the time this was all happening, regardless of whether they might have supported her back then, or even support her now.

IMO, there is no reason to believe he vouches for LL now.

A fair point, just muses on my behalf. It will be interesting to hear the discussions of others following the aftermath of these awful cases.
JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

Why do you say that? I hope you don't mean it because they've become the objects of SM speculation and abuse?

Not as far as I'm aware, though I suppose there is always the potential for that to happen in a case where there are people on both sides of the fence who have strong views. I was thinking more from the point of view of having their private text messages and personal opinions made public, and the fact that their names will be forever linked with LL if she's found guilty.

 

[Sundial]

I might seem heartless but I don't feel the same.

He was a DOCTOR completely oblivious to the (alleged) drama of patients under his care.
Drama happening "under his nose".

Clueless.

Not to mention engaging into (alleged) "office/hospital romance" during working hours - and I guess much to amusement of staff and gossip.
(The text of a nurse about "going commando")

My sympathy and tears are solely for Babies and their parents.

JMO

I’m not so sure, we don’t really know his true thoughts as yet because I feel there is more to come from him.

Perhaps he had nigging doubts but dismissed them as did the other consultants. Other members of the team (inc the consultants) have reported how upset they have felt/were and I really feel for the team too who will have undoubtedly have been effected by this.
On one hand I guess it’s easy not to have sympathy for him, but on the other did he really believe she’d don’t nothing wrong?

He isn’t the one on trial regardless but if we think of her other colleagues; one of them also supported her with some of the “bitchy” comments being said about her etc. if they had no reason to think someone was harming babies in their team, I can imagine just as the every day lay person she would still have a circle of friends regardless.

It’s the unthinkable and last thing you would even consider let alone want to believe in this sort of environment. Least more so I guess if you were not there for the duration of A-Q or whatever other factors come into play.
JMO

 

[Sundial]

And not just anyone who had a close relationship with her. You only need look at the appalling damage an out of control social media can inflict upon anyone whose name/face happens to flow into the latest news cycle. This is wholly warranted self-protection.

I'm surprised more of the witnesses here haven't chosen the same degree of anonymity as Dr Choc.

I think that’s what it is for me; that so few others have chosen to do the same. Personally I feel I would if I was in their position. It’s interesting hearing everyone’s thoughts on this.
JMO

 

[Tortoise]

I totally get that line of thought. I suppose I’m not actually ruling it out only stating that that passage of writing doesn’t give it away. In essence no reason to think it’s anything but a normal response that anyone would give in that situation.

i Would give that proposition much more due seriousness if there was anything that could be tied into that being a likely suggestion. As an example any other instances of her using veiled language, ever. The same investigatory method I’m applying to her imo personal usage of the words “not good enough” and clinical usage of her personal phrase “rubbish”.

Can I ask what it is that makes you think that that is a veiled question with only one aim?

"who told you?" seems a bit paranoid to me. Why should it matter to LL how her colleague who is at work heard about baby E having died? It's as if LL thinks it is about her and not the baby.

She did the same with baby G

LL: "Had rubbish nights. x"
JJ-K: "Yeah gathered. x"
LL: "Thought someone would have told you x.
The conversation turned to LL asking which of the team had informed JJ-K about the events of the night-shift.

'Thought someone would have told you' seems like fishing and when JJ-K doesn't give up the goods LL asks directly, so it seems she wanted to ask straight off but tried to disguise her interest at first.

I wouldn't call it veiled language, but not wanting her need to know to be obvious. IMO

 

[squish]

I might seem heartless but I don't feel the same.

He was a DOCTOR completely oblivious to the (alleged) drama of patients under his care.
Drama happening "under his nose".

Clueless.

Not to mention engaging into (alleged) "office/hospital romance" during working hours - and I guess much to amusement of staff and gossip.
(The text of a nurse about "going commando")

My sympathy and tears are solely for Babies and their parents.

JMO

I agree. He was so blinded by his infatuation with her that he was unable to perceive the situation clearly like the other doctors. He has not been betrayed. He's just a fool.

He also seemed to be relentlessly chasing her and oblivious to her lack of mutual attraction. She seemed flattered and happy for his unwavering (though lust motivated) support, but this type of man can end up being creepy and disrespectful. He also mentioned having children - these could be hypothetical children, but I truly hope he was not married while chasing Letby.

 

[ColourPurple]

I think that’s what it is for me; that so few others have chosen to do the same. Personally I feel I would if I was in their position. It’s interesting hearing everyone’s thoughts on this.
JMO

I think before the trial I'd have said "yeah I've got nothing to hide. I don't need a screen or any level of anonymity". Now having followed the trial I'd definitely take the anonymity option!

 

[Tortoise]

How many Prosecutors are there?
- Nick J.
- Simon D.
- Philip A.

Anybody else?

Quite a numerous Team

There are also solicitors assisting both teams.

Defence has three barristers also. Benjamin Myers, Michael Maher and Fiona Clancy.

 

[Dotta]

There are also solicitors assisting both teams.

Defence has three barristers also. Benjamin Myers, Michael Maher and Fiona Clancy.

Thanks.
And what are solicitors' tasks?

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks.
And what are solicitors' tasks?

I would guess - recording everything the witnesses are saying, so they probably need good and fast keyboard skills, and also maintaining the records, of which there will be trunk loads, in this case, to find records and exhibits that the barristers need to refer to. Running a tight ship basically, and of course passing notes from the defendant to the barristers.

 

[Dotta]

Running a tight ship basically, and of course passing notes from the defendant to the barristers.

"Running a tight ship" you say.

And I answer
"Tall order"

 

[Sweeper2000]

"who told you?" seems a bit paranoid to me. Why should it matter to LL how her colleague who is at work heard about baby E having died? It's as if LL thinks it is about her and not the baby.

She did the same with baby G

LL: "Had rubbish nights. x"
JJ-K: "Yeah gathered. x"
LL: "Thought someone would have told you x.
The conversation turned to LL asking which of the team had informed JJ-K about the events of the night-shift.

'Thought someone would have told you' seems like fishing and when JJ-K doesn't give up the goods LL asks directly, so it seems she wanted to ask straight off but tried to disguise her interest at first.

I wouldn't call it veiled language, but not wanting her need to know to be obvious. IMO

I certainly think there is room for a negative or positive attribute to her motive for asking the question. Why is one ok or not and why ask anyway? Especially when that sequence of conversation implies a want to know. Is that the entire conversation? Would be interesting to hear if she ever expressed frustration or anger at being talked about. If she doesn’t it would be difficult for me to distinguish between performance related worries and direct concerns about perceived actions.

 

[ColourPurple]

The doctor replies at 00:12, saying: 'It's true. You are one of the few nurses across the region (I've worked pretty much everywhere) that I would trust with my own children. If you're worried – I'm worried. You should do the APNP (Advanced Paediatric Nurse Practitioner) course, you'd be excellent'.

In a second reference to his children, he adds: 'They're possibly a bit too big now'.

Letby responds: 'Don't know what to say. Thank you'.

The doctor: 'Self-doubt finished?'

Letby: 'I think so, thank you ++


Oh they weren't hypothetical children after all!

Doctor told Lucy Letby she would trust her 'with my own children'

The doctor had become a friend to Lucy Letby (pictured) by the time the two shared a series of late-night messages in June 2016.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

The doctor replies at 00:12, saying: 'It's true. You are one of the few nurses across the region (I've worked pretty much everywhere) that I would trust with my own children. If you're worried – I'm worried. You should do the APNP (Advanced Paediatric Nurse Practitioner) course, you'd be excellent'.

In a second reference to his children, he adds: 'They're possibly a bit too big now'.

Letby responds: 'Don't know what to say. Thank you'.

The doctor: 'Self-doubt finished?'

Letby: 'I think so, thank you ++


Oh they weren't hypothetical children after all!

Doctor told Lucy Letby she would trust her 'with my own children'

The doctor had become a friend to Lucy Letby (pictured) by the time the two shared a series of late-night messages in June 2016.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I was just getting ready to post the same.

Sounds to me that he could be quite a bit older too, having worked at almost every hospital in the region.

 

[Dotta]

Doctor told Lucy Letby she would trust her 'with my own children'

The doctor had become a friend to Lucy Letby (pictured) by the time the two shared a series of late-night messages in June 2016.

www.dailymail.co.uk

"It's not you, it's the babies".

The words of a doctor.