NY - Former President Donald Trump charged with 34 criminal counts of falsifying business records, Apr 2023

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nhmemorymaker said:
Yes, loads of folks don't like DT. And that is because he is a suspected criminal...on many counts. I feel that folks who don't support these investigations truly do not appreciate law and order.... as if Criminals are Gods, or something.

Time to pay the piper.

I personally, hate to see criminals go free.

Of course, imo.
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RSBM

Personally, I can't stand Trump's character. His track record as a president or his political party has nothing to do with my opinion. Morally and ethically, I think he's a dumpster fire.

However I don't agree that those who don't support these investigations also don't appreciate law & order.
I think for a LOT of people, they see (I see it as well) a glaring inconsistency in applying the law to all public figures.
Like you, many people also hate to see criminals go free, and we all know that happens all the time.

jmo
 
I am wondering if any federal charges on his taxes are pending. His taxes were released, December 30, 2022.

I learned a lot from reading this, who knew you could "loan" your children money, and take the intrest received from them off on your taxes? I just give my kids money. How stupid. I really need to make loan documents and record the interest payments, for tax deductions.

BTW, he stated he gave his presidential salary to charity? He must have "mis spoke", no charitable donations in 2020.
 
Ontario Mom said:
RSBM

Personally, I can't stand Trump's character. His track record as a president or his political party has nothing to do with my opinion. Morally and ethically, I think he's a dumpster fire.

However I don't agree that those who don't support these investigations also don't appreciate law & order.
I think for a LOT of people, they see (I see it as well) a glaring inconsistency in applying the law to all public figures.
Like you, many people also hate to see criminals go free, and we all know that happens all the time.

jmo
Click to expand...
I agree with you. It should be applied equally to all public individuals. Trump should still stand trial for his alleged crimes, but I’d like to see all rich and powerful people who commit crimes to have the same fate. Perhaps this is a step in the right direction?
 
crussell821 said:
I agree with you. It should be applied equally to all public individuals. Trump should still stand trial for his alleged crimes, but I’d like to see all rich and powerful people who commit crimes to have the same fate. Perhaps this is a step in the right direction?
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I'd love to think that's true but I don't have much hope that's going to happen.
 
1mvp2 said:
In the United States, you are considered innocent , until you're proven guilty. The prosecutor (aka district attorney or attorney general) must show the jury that all of the elements of the crime are present and that the accused is the one who committed that crime - beyond a reasonable doubt.
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That's the way it's supposed to work. Ask the Innocence Project.

As for myself, I don't think this series of upcoming cases is politically motivated. If anything, it's past due that DJT is scrutinized for his shady business practices that he continued to involve himself while president.

If Michael Cohen can get arraigned, arrested, convicted and sentenced for his involvement in the exact same case, then I would think that those who believe someone innocent until proven guilty would welcome a trial to prove that.
 
crussell821 said:
I agree with you. It should be applied equally to all public individuals. Trump should still stand trial for his alleged crimes, but I’d like to see all rich and powerful people who commit crimes to have the same fate. Perhaps this is a step in the right direction?
Click to expand...

Not sure why anyone would ever want to support a system that does not hold all accountable if they break the law. If I am driving and know the speed limit is 65 and I am traveling at 80, I might be peeved that I get a ticket but that is the law. I can fight the ticket or try to plead to a lesser charge but at the end of the day I broke the law. There are plenty of people who go to jail every day who might have had reasons for doing what they did.

We as a citizenry know that there are lots of businesses (therefore, business operatives and owners) who try to skirt the law. Many might never be caught but if they are they should be held accountable because, if they are not, we should repeal those laws and let everyone do it. I have watched personalities and politicians I liked go to prison for wrong doings after their trials. As it has been said before, "Don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time." Martha Stewart lied and went to prison as did many others.

If you run for office, make sure that you have been honest and be transparent with your finances. We are not an aristocracy or monarchy or oligarchy but a representative (indirect) democracy and constitutional republic. So, all should be accountable to the laws of our nation not just those laws we like or those citizens who feel like abiding to the laws. (I want the judge who feels like they don't agree with speeding laws on my bench. That way I can say it is a law I don't like and neither do they so no points, no fines, no conviction. Don't we all?)

Court is where you go to remedy if you feel like you have been unjustly accused. You are innocent until proven guilty but our system of grand juries exist to look at complexities of the law and to determine if there is enough evidence to gain a conviction-- it is not assured that there will be one but that is the work of the prosecution to prove. Let the prosecution prove it but a person's position or power should not limit them from being held accountable. If people believe that the system is rigged or based on political or other bias, well then, there are millions sitting in prison who would like to have that argument and a remedy for it so they can be released.

Let us see the evidence and what a trial of peers might have to say about the behavior of any person accused. JMHO, of course.

edited to make the tome more readable!
 
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Smelly Squirrel said:
Order Unsealing a Grand Jury Matter

View attachment 412369
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Here's a short bio on Judge Merchan, the judge who signed that order and will be presiding over the case. He was the judge for the trials and convictions of the Trump Org. and Weisselberg for tax fraud and falsifying business records.

www.nytimes.com

Judge Who Oversaw Tax Fraud Case Against Trump’s Business Expected to Preside Over His Arraignment

Justice Juan M. Merchan, who has spent 16 years on the bench, is no stranger to high-profile or complex cases.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

Justice Merchan was born in Bogotá, Colombia. He came to the United States with his family when he was 6 years old, and grew up poor in Jackson Heights, Queens, according to people familiar with his background.

In Colombia, his father was a military officer who later served in the country’s intelligence service, the people said, and after coming to New York, Justice Merchan worked as a night dishwasher at the old Americana Hotel in Manhattan. His mother worked in New York at a range of jobs, including packaging food for airline meals and working in zipper and toy factories.

The youngest of six children and the first in his family to go to college, he began working when he was 9, carrying groceries for tips, and then held jobs through high school that included washing dishes at a diner and delivering kosher meat. In college, he worked as a night manager at a hotel.

He attended Baruch College but dropped out to work as an internal auditor at a real estate firm, the United Nations Development Corporation. Several years later, he returned to earn his business degree before going to law school. He worked to put himself through college — the result, he later told people, was terrible grades.

He began his legal career in 1994 as an assistant district attorney in Manhattan after graduating from Hofstra University School of Law. After five years conducting trials and prosecuting financial fraud cases, he moved to the State Attorney General’s office, where he held positions overseeing civil cases on Long Island. Mayor Michael Bloomberg appointed him to the bench in Bronx Family Court in 2006, and since 2009, he has been an acting justice in State Supreme Court, presiding over felony criminal trials.
 
mickey2942 said:
I am wondering if any federal charges on his taxes are pending. His taxes were released, December 30, 2022.

I learned a lot from reading this, who knew you could "loan" your children money, and take the intrest received from them off on your taxes? I just give my kids money. How stupid. I really need to make loan documents and record the interest payments, for tax deductions.

BTW, he stated he gave his presidential salary to charity? He must have "mis spoke", no charitable donations in 2020.
Click to expand...

I always found that a bit of a head scratcher. I used to work for a Canadian government entity and there was a clause that you could give your salary to charity but you were still required to actually take the payment minus all statutory deductions such as CPP (Canada Pension Plan) UIC (Unemployment Insurance) Income Tax (both federal and provincial) and any other associated deductions like supplemental health care benefits. I remember the infamous Rob Ford, Toronto's meth addicted mayor, stated he gave 'every penny' to charity but alas, his employer also required statutory deductions, so I was suspicious of his claim, just as I am Donald Trump's. Especially, after the veteran charity fund debacle.
 
kaen said:
Not sure why anyone would ever want to support a system that does not hold all accountable if they break the law. If I am driving and know the speed limit is 65 and I am traveling at 80, I might be peeved that I get a ticket but that is the law. I can fight the ticket or try to plead to a lesser charge but at the end of the day I broke the law. There are plenty of people who go to jail every day who might have had reasons for doing what they did.

We as a citizenry know that there are lots of businesses (therefore, business operatives and owners) who try to skirt the law. Many might never be caught but if they are they should be held accountable because, if they are not, we should repeal those laws and let everyone do it. I have watched personalities and politicians I liked go to prison for wrong doings after their trials. As it has been said before, "Don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time." Martha Stewart lied and went to prison as did many others.

If you run for office, make sure that you have been honest and be transparent with your finances. We are not an aristocracy or monarchy or oligarchy but a representative (indirect) democracy and constitutional republic. So, all should be accountable to the laws of our nation not just those laws we like or those citizens who feel like abiding to the laws. (I want the judge who feels like they don't agree with speeding laws on my bench. That way I can say it is a law I don't like and neither do they so no points, no fines, no conviction. Don't we all?)

Court is where you go to remedy if you feel like you have been unjustly accused. You are innocent until proven guilty but our system of grand juries exist to look at complexities of the law and to determine if there is enough evidence to gain a conviction-- it is not assured that there will be one but that is the work of the prosecution to prove. Let the prosecution prove it but a person's position or power should not limit them from being held accountable. If people believe that the system is rigged or based on political or other bias, well then, there are millions sitting in prison who would like to have that argument and a remedy for it so they can be released.

Let us see the evidence and what a trial of peers might have to say about the behavior of any person accused. JMHO, of course.

edited to make the tome more readable!
Click to expand...
@kaen Thanks for your common sense logical comment.

Anecdotally- along the same lines :
I was pulled over for going thru a red light. After a bit of the back and forth and license and registration etc, the officer said you went through a red light, as a matter of fact you were the third car that went through that red light.
My quick comment was "Well, what happened to the other two cars ? Shouldn't you have stopped them too?"
In retrospect a pretty brazen comment. And if I had been in a different state/town or of a different ethnicity/ age it might have been a very reckless statement. Luckily the officer chuckled and then said - this is about you not them.

What-about-ism - IMO is always a way to try to undermine the legitimacy of the issue. Look over there not here/deflection. It's not a defense its a distraction.

ALL JMO
 
<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

My concern is that Trump has three other cases to answer for that are very serious: trying to overthrow a legitimate election in Georgia and federally and obstructing justice relative to the classified documents: those are potential crimes that he needs to be indicted for. I Have no respect for people who are crowing about this New York case. It is a waste of time-- even the DOJ is upset and feels it puts the other potential serious cases in peril. I am disappointed in people who should have more sense and understand this case in context of other potential cases against Trump. Sometimes you can win the battle and lose the war. I predict he will be acquitted anyway. From my understanding it is a very weak type of case- John Edwards walked away from a similar type of case, to my understanding. Also, this case gives Trump supporters ammunition to cause terrible violence and disturbance. It is just a mess.
 
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From a long NYT article about how this phase began: How Alvin Bragg Resurrected the Case Against Donald Trump
The Grand Jury

For Mr. Bragg, the new year began by impaneling a grand jury to hear evidence in the hush- money case. For some of his prosecutors, it began with a peace summit with Mr. Cohen.

At a meeting in their office in Lower Manhattan — the same building where the new grand jury would soon start to meet — the prosecutors told him they wanted to start fresh, and Mr. Cohen was amenable.

“I went in to 80 Centre St. skeptical and guarded,” Mr. Cohen said in an interview with The Times, referring to the building where the Major Economic Crimes Bureau is. “After a three-hour initial meeting, I left reassured and confident in the team. They were knowledgeable, articulate and professional in a way that made me as comfortable as I was with the previous Pomerantz and Dunne team.”

It was the first of at least seven visits Mr. Cohen made to the office this year. In the ensuing meetings, prosecutors grilled him about granular aspects of the hush-money episode. He provided them with documents and his phone.

While evaluating Mr. Cohen’s evidence, the prosecutors began presenting evidence to the grand jury. The first witness was David Pecker, the former publisher of The National Enquirer, the tabloid that helped broker Mr. Cohen’s payout to Ms. Daniels. Mr. Pecker was followed by Ms. Daniels’s lawyer and some of Mr. Trump’s employees and campaign aides, most prominently Kellyanne Conway and Hope Hicks. The process culminated in Mr. Cohen testifying before the panel for more than two days in March.

By then, the parade of witnesses had begun to draw a media crowd outside 80 Centre. The fervor grew when The Times reported that Mr. Bragg had signaled to Mr. Trump’s legal team that he was poised to seek an indictment.
 
mickey2942 said:
I am wondering if any federal charges on his taxes are pending. His taxes were released, December 30, 2022.

I learned a lot from reading this, who knew you could "loan" your children money, and take the intrest received from them off on your taxes? I just give my kids money. How stupid. I really need to make loan documents and record the interest payments, for tax deductions.

BTW, he stated he gave his presidential salary to charity? He must have "mis spoke", no charitable donations in 2020.
Click to expand...
Wow! I had no idea his tax returns were tied to this investigation. I found this article from 2021 written by a legal analyst. The gifts to his children raise huge red flags.

www.nbcnews.com

Opinion | The simple legal strategy Trump is using to avoid criminal charges

Financial investigations are time consuming, and a U.S. president under criminal investigation has a number of tools at his disposal that can burn up even more time.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
 
Mandi3020 said:
How about innocent until proven guilty?
Click to expand...

“Innocent until proven guilty” or “presumption of innocence” is a legal concept that applies in a court of law. In other words, it is up to the prosecution to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Discussions, such as on Websleuths, are not held to that standard. Of course, we can hold ourselves individually to that standard out of fairness. Or we can choose to base our opinion of the likelihood of guilt on other factors such as the observed character of the defendant and patterns of behavior and speech that can indicate guilt.

We’ve all been on threads here on WS that have allowed opinions regarding guilt (or innocence) before a trial takes place. The current case of Angela Craig whose husband has been arrested for causing her death by poison or the Murdaugh case or the Gwyneth Paltrow case are examples. We haven’t been required by WS owner Tricia to withhold our opinions until after the trial. Strong opinions are allowed.

The same standard holds on WS regarding indictments of Trump as far as I know.
 
SouthAussie said:
I wonder if Michael Cohen's guilty pleas in this matter will affect the outcome of DT's current charges.
Would it even be able to be mentioned, if DT goes to trial, that his personal lawyer admitted his (their?) guilt in this matter?


Finally, in 2016, COHEN made or caused two separate payments to women to ensure that they did not publicly disclose their alleged affairs with a presidential candidate in advance of the election.

In one instance, COHEN caused American Media, Inc. (“AMI”), which was identified in previous court filings as “Corporation-1,” to make a $150,000 payment to one woman; in the other, COHEN made a $130,000 payment to another woman through an LLC he incorporated for the purpose of making the payment.

COHEN was reimbursed for the latter payment in monthly installments disguised as payments for legal services performed pursuant to a retainer, when in fact no such retainer existed.

COHEN made or caused both of these payments in order to influence the 2016 election and did so in coordination with one or more members of the campaign.

www.justice.gov

Michael Cohen Sentenced To 3 Years In Prison

www.justice.gov www.justice.gov
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I like 2 say this look at all the people who have lost their jobs went 2 court and or jail because of DT just saying and all the stuff he started in January and the people who stood by him and went 2 jail I wonder what or if he will get anything 4 that also I wonder what he has 2 do with the Epstein stuff I always thought that DT was very corrupt
 
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