PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 #7

[Harrisburg17901]

I only recently heard about this case. I somehow had not heard of it despite living close to the area. I've spent a ton of time recently looking into it and I think my final conclusion is AB.

She owed him money and the argument pissed him off enough to take action. AB committed a robbery 3 months after Kortne disappeared, stealing guns and other things (speculating it was drugs and money) that were never recovered. There was a woman and an 8 year old child in the house. If I had to guess, the only reason that woman is still alive is because they couldn't get themselves to kill a child. The robbery happened in 2012, but he didn't get arrested until 2016. The details of this robbery sound very similar to what has been theorized happened to Kortne. Maybe the guy that stayed over was involved, maybe she got lured outside, but the robbery he was arrested for was with 3 others. That's more than enough to overpower her without much of a struggle or carry her out in a rug. The target of the robbery being a single adult woman seems like quite the coincidence imo. They probably didn't think the kid was home and were targeting the one woman. I think I'm going to try and see if he had a connection to the woman in the robbery prior to it happening. Maybe she owed him money too.

Earlier in one of these threads, someone mentioned a rapper that had a soundclound song that is now deleted that referenced being involved in the murder. If you go to ABs twitter, with the very little activity he's had, most of the tweets are retweets of songs from a soundcloud rapper. A few of the links lead to deleted tracks. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the rumored rapper that had the song and he's clearly connected to AB in someway because his music sucks. There's no way anyone is listening to his catalog and enjoying it, so those retweets are likely helping a friend. This paragraph could be pretty irrelevant because they're only rumors, but I figured I'd mention it again anyway.

She'll get found at some point because she's probably in the lake or some of the dense forest. Someone at some point will stumble upon the body when nature knocks it loose and brings it to shore or an animal moves a few bones into somewhere that's more visible. I hope it's soon.

4 men get prison time for 2012 home invasion and robbery in Dauphin County

GRANTVILLE, DAUPHIN COUNTY–Three men plead guilty Friday for their role in a 2012 home invasion and robbery in Dauphin County. Arvard Brown, Todd Kline an...

www.fox43.com

 

[Trackergd]

Are there mugshots of these three? I can't seem to find any.

 

[dotr]

Aug 21, 2012,

Report: Police Question Men Who Saw Woman Night She Vanished

Report: Police Question Men Who Saw Woman Night She Vanished

www.huffpost.com

''The two individuals questioned -- Milton Rodriguez, Jr. and Cody Pruett -- gave Stouffer a ride home on the night that she went missing. The group dropped Rodriguez off at his home around 2 a.m. before Pruett and Stouffer continued to her apartment in Palmyra. The two men are among the last people to see Stouffer before she vanished, according to a copy of a search warrant obtained by WHP-TV Friday.
The two men are not considered people of interest or suspects in the investigation, the district attorney's office has said.
Investigators searched Rodriguez's 2004 Acura as well as the home of Rodriguez's father.

Police responded to a pair of noise complaints from Stouffer's apartment building on the night she disappeared. At approximately 3:15 a.m., police arrived following an argument between Stouffer and another building tenant. About an hour later, authorities returned, only to find the building quiet.''

KORTNE CIERA STOUFFER - PALMYRA, PENNSYLVANIA | Federal Bureau of Investigation

Palmyra, Pennsylvania July 29, 2012

www.fbi.gov

 

[ex-stat]

I wish they would just tell the truth on these programmes. If the floorboards were ripped up and a cash counting machine stolen more was going on in that apartment than she just smokes a bit of pot. I too have heard the robbery/drug debt theory banded about. IF that is the case then then she didn't necessarily rob someone directly, but if KS and her bf were robbed they would have a debt to pay and it does not matter if they were robbed, why would anyone give a *advertiser censored* about that, that's their lookout in that harsh world. The debt would still have to be paid, and she would be very vulnerable with her bf in prison. The person she owed the debt to would in turn owe to someone else who would need to be paid. I had actually heard a much larger amount than the one mentioned in this thread but that is neither here nor there I suppose. It may be absolutely nothing to do with that for all we know and an acquaintance harmed her. However, the number of times this is mentioned and not just on here certainly gives pause for thought. I don't want to add further thoughts on this in case the family are reading. None of us really know what happened and sometimes I think speculation does more harm than good. I think it is sad whatever happened.

 

[eagle5516]

I

I only recently heard about this case. I somehow had not heard of it despite living close to the area. I've spent a ton of time recently looking into it and I think my final conclusion is AB.

She owed him money and the argument pissed him off enough to take action. AB committed a robbery 3 months after Kortne disappeared, stealing guns and other things (speculating it was drugs and money) that were never recovered. There was a woman and an 8 year old child in the house. If I had to guess, the only reason that woman is still alive is because they couldn't get themselves to kill a child. The robbery happened in 2012, but he didn't get arrested until 2016. The details of this robbery sound very similar to what has been theorized happened to Kortne. Maybe the guy that stayed over was involved, maybe she got lured outside, but the robbery he was arrested for was with 3 others. That's more than enough to overpower her without much of a struggle or carry her out in a rug. The target of the robbery being a single adult woman seems like quite the coincidence imo. They probably didn't think the kid was home and were targeting the one woman. I think I'm going to try and see if he had a connection to the woman in the robbery prior to it happening. Maybe she owed him money too.

Earlier in one of these threads, someone mentioned a rapper that had a soundclound song that is now deleted that referenced being involved in the murder. If you go to ABs twitter, with the very little activity he's had, most of the tweets are retweets of songs from a soundcloud rapper. A few of the links lead to deleted tracks. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the rumored rapper that had the song and he's clearly connected to AB in someway because his music sucks. There's no way anyone is listening to his catalog and enjoying it, so those retweets are likely helping a friend. This paragraph could be pretty irrelevant because they're only rumors, but I figured I'd mention it again anyway.

She'll get found at some point because she's probably in the lake or some of the dense forest. Someone at some point will stumble upon the body when nature knocks it loose and brings it to shore or an animal moves a few bones into somewhere that's more visible. I hope it's soon.

4 men get prison time for 2012 home invasion and robbery in Dauphin County

GRANTVILLE, DAUPHIN COUNTY–Three men plead guilty Friday for their role in a 2012 home invasion and robbery in Dauphin County. Arvard Brown, Todd Kline an...

www.fox43.com

All of the above seems like a very real possibility. <modsnip - discussing removed rumors> That connect brings along AB because he has no real loyalty to KS, because he was afraid of AB, or did not know exactly how far things were going to go. CP either witnessed what happened and did nothing and has not explained to the police what really happened (and this is why he seemed so sketchy in the aftermath even though he may have had nothing to do with the actual murder), he slept through the encounter, or just didn't go outside with KS. If maybe you are starting to go into withdrawal, it's the middle of the night and you are just going outside for a second to pick up a bundle so you don't get sick, it might explain why you don't have shoes or your wallet, or whatever the essential type items were that she left behind (I forget).
<modsnip - rumor> WS called him out by name on the Vanished Podcast as part of the drug debt rumor she had heard, so that theory got bumped up to #1 for me, <modsnip - rumor>

All of that is really involved and Occam's Razor would tell you that CP and MR are better suspects, and CP especially, since they were the ones who were last with her on that night. But neither one strikes me as a criminal mastermind, so I feel like the police would have gotten something on them by now. Versus, AB and at least 1 other person maybe shows up and take out KS from the backyard or from the apartment itself and all CP does is not give them up. In that scenario, he can fail a polygraph, but there's really no direct evidence tying him to the crime bc strictly speaking, he's not guilty of anything other than not implicating someone else in the crime or possible obstruction around whatever lies he told to avoid saying what really happened. So police know he's likely not telling the whole truth (but that's true with most witnesses in just about every drug-related murder), but they have nothing on him and can't charge him.

 

[Harrisburg17901]

Are there mugshots of these three? I can't seem to find any.

Inmate/Parolee Locator

inmatelocator.cor.pa.gov

I only looked for AB, but I was able to find his parole release mugshot. I can't find any arrest mugshots though.

 

[aileanaodh]

Inmate/Parolee Locator

inmatelocator.cor.pa.gov

I only looked for AB, but I was able to find his parole release mugshot. I can't find any arrest mugshots though.

Hello - I have held the same theory as you for years. Kortne argued with AB at the Hardware Bar and even accused him of robbing her apartment! And then later, we find out that AB and 3 others committed a violent home invasion and had a woman and child at gunpoint! This has been mentioned in numerous sources (podcasts, news articles, forums). What drives me crazy is that every time this information is mentioned, it's followed up with, "well... the police cleared AB so they don't think it was him...". Great - how did they clear him? Did he fly a plane to London after the argument at the bar? A timestamped video of him dancing? Or did his girlfriend tell the police she could vouch for him and they thought that was good enough?! I would love to know!
This leads me to other questions... Why do we refer to him as AB? I read the rules about using real names and he has been mentioned in the official police timeline by name. That timeline was published by several official news sources. Doesn't that mean we can use his name?
Also - he has at least two facebook profiles. You won't find much there but he's enjoying life as a free man these days.

 

[dotr]

''Dec 3, 2012
What happened to 21-year-old Kortne Stouffer? The mystery of this young womanâ s disappearance has led police to two young men who may have been the last to see her.On Tuesday, Jane Velez-Mitchell spoke to Scott Stouffer, Kortneâ s father to get the latest on the search for his daughter. He said he talked to Cody Pruett, the man who says he spent the night at Kortneâ s apartment the night she disappeared. â I really wanted to hear from his side''

 

[Trackergd]

Inmate/Parolee Locator

inmatelocator.cor.pa.gov

I only looked for AB, but I was able to find his parole release mugshot. I can't find any arrest mugshots though.

This took me to a blank screen on the website. If you have a picture you can PM me, I can compare it to some pictures I mined from various sources showing her with other individuals.

 

[bringKhome]

I am local to this case and have looked into this forum a few times over the years hoping to find something, anything that will help find this young lady. <modsnip - rumor>
I was at a July 4th party this past week and my daughters boyfriend, who is a cop, was talking about a body recently discovered in Dauphin County. He said that police "think they know who it is" which prompted another guest to blurt out "Kortne Stauffer!?" His reply was "who?" He did not live in the area at the time of her disappearance and when we told him more about the case he was able to rule her out because the remains were more recent and a male.
That triggered my interest again since it had been a number of years since I had dug through the forum <modsnip - rumor> So, this past week I started from post no. 1 all the way to here. As you can imagine, after reading all of the posts, replies, watching videos, reading what news stories that are still active links, listening to podcasts and YouTube videos I have developed some of my own questions that I can't seem to find a straight answer too. I am going to post a series of questions that I have had, and possibly someone knows the answers. I will be doing that over the next few days. I, like all of us want this girl found and her family given answers and some held accountable. A few summers ago I bowled in a league in Harrisburg. There was an older lady who bowled with what I was told were her grandsons. It was a 3 person league. This lady always brought a small Yorkie with her that was a support dog. The dog was super adorable and well behaved. What I didn't know was that this was Kortne's grandmother, and two of her brothers. They were very nice people. I can't help but think that she needed that dog because of the pain of losing her granddaughter. I will never know as they didn't bowl again. I can only guess. That's all for now. More to come.

 

[bringKhome]

My first set of questions were inspired after listening to WS interview on the Vanished podcast. She stated that when she arrived at the apartment that the door was wide open, that TV was on and so was the AC, and that the dog met her halfway down the staircase. She said wide open, as in the dog could walk in and out of the house, at least that was how it sounded. However any pictures I see of the dwelling has a screen door as well as a front door. Is KS actual front door inside of the building? Does anyone know the layout of the apartment? I've heard it was 2 stories and had a pool table (per WS) on the first floor and bedrooms up stairs, but I have also heard KS's neighbors referred to as "downstairs neighbors" but also that it was a duplex and they lived side by side. Not sure which it is. Does anyone who has been following this know any of what I have asked? Please correct or clarify if you know.
From this: who left the door open wide? Was it CP who spent the night? Was he asked if he closed the door? Was the TV on when he left? WS was met by one dog, yet supposedly KS bf's (BH) dog was also there. Was that dog gone, or not? I know that BH's dad is said to have picked up his dog, but when? The night before when he was carted off to jail? The next day? If next day, did he leave the door wide open? Was the door open and TV on when he came over to get the dog the following day if that is when? I am still confused regarding this because I've seen it stated that both dogs were there upon the return from the night out at 3AM, and other times when it was only her dog.
Also gleaned from that interview is that upon the 3rd time LE came to the home, all was quiet. It was assumed that LE only knocked on doors that no one answered. WS stated that KS had done this before around another ruckus a few weeks prior. It took a lot of reading through these forums to finally learn that neighbor TS actually did talk to the police at the 4:30 AM return, talking about how KS was out of control and shouting threats from within her apt and wanting to file a complaint against her for kicking him, which he actually did at 7:30 AM of that morning.
It was also revealed that police looked in the windows and saw darkness (TV on or not?) and heard some low barking coming from deep inside the home. This leads me to believe that KS decided it was time to shut up, because she was afraid she may be arrested.
Unrelated to the interview but interesting is that on all three LE arrivals there was more than a single patrolman. The probation officer the first time at 9PM, and North Londonderry officer(s) the two other times.
Another unrelated question to the WS interview, but is that a mug shot photo of KS. Was she not busted before for supplying minors with alcohol? The photo I am talking about is a face shot where she doesn't look very happy and is wearing a bandana or head scarf.
Some of these questions to me are important because it is believed she was abducted between 4:30ish-7ish AM, but was she? It is possible in my mind that she was in the home when CP left. It was a two story apartment. Did he physically make a serious effort to see if she was there or just call out her name a couple times. If he's downstairs, and her bedroom is upstairs, did he actually go up and see if she was there? She may have been, was asleep and didn't hear him. Does anyone know if he actually looked for her?
TS the neighbor was at the municipal building at 7:30 reporting the incident and wanting to press charges (possibly creating an alibi?). So if she was grabbed around that time, he wasn't there to see it. The other couple R and J could have easily slept through an abduction if it happened in the lot near her car and she was jumped from behind by someone with no time to react or even make a sound, or not much of any due to being rendered unconscious.
There are more questions regarding the people who were in her orbit, but for right now: when was the dog picked up, was the TV on when CP left, did he leave the door open? It is more than possible that KS was taken after CP left the area. Unless we know for a fact that he actually checked her bedroom and she wasn't there, means he left her door wide open and her TV on. I am sure that all parties I have mentioned were asked about these things.
WS made it pretty clear that LE and the DA were great and were leaving no stone unturned. She said the lead detective from the get go was a former neighbor of theirs and had a very personal interest because he knew KS himself and watched her grow up. I know a lot of folks on earlier threads were questioning LE's motivation, but according to WS that is not at all the case. Any assistance/answers to what I have asked above is greatly appreciated.
More to come

 

[bringKhome]

After re-reading the timeline a question was answered and that is CP DID NOT search every room in the house before leaving. So he basically called out her name, didn't get an answer and left, but was the TV on? Did he leave the door wide open as WS found it Monday, July 30? So it is possible she was in the house when he left.
Then another question is cloudy as I re-read it: as the police knocked on the door to KS's apartment they said they heard "dogs" barking from deep in side the residence. Exact quote is "the dogs (plural) barked from deep inside the residence". Again, when was BH's dog picked up by his Dad? Was it there when WS arrived Monday morning or was it just Sheeba? Was the dog picked up before or after WS's Monday arrival? From her interview I can't recall if she said both dogs were there or not. I do not believe she did. Does anyone know?

 

[bringKhome]

One more question, (as if I haven't posed enough) were the clothes KS was wearing that night out also gone? Reason I ask is if she vanished in the clothes she was wearing it may more indicate a time. I believe the clothes she was wearing are also gone, but am not positive. If they are gone, that may indicate she never went to bed and therefore may move up how soon from when LE left to when she was taken. If she did go to bed, most likely she would have undressed somewhat, however, having a house guest who you knows has a crush on you may actually prompt you to remain dressed, even when laying down (if she ever did). She could have also threw whatever she was wearing next to the bed and then put same shorts/top on right off the bedroom floor (we've all done that). If anyone knows for sure, let me know.

 

[bringKhome]

In my opinion, the condition of the dwelling as WS found it (door open, 2 dogs or one? TV on) as compared to how CP left it possibly changes the time frame of when she may have been taken. As far as we know CP left somewhere between 7:30 to 7:45am on July 29 and WS arrived between 7-8 am Monday July 30. That's 24 hours. Was the 2nd dog picked up in that 24 hour window or after WS arrived on Monday the 30th? I, like most people have some theories as to who did it or why, as well as when. I will post over the next few days. Anybody who can answer/correct or verify any of the questions I have asked will be greatly appreciated.

 

[aileanaodh]

bringKhome --

Glad to see someone moving the discussion. I have always kept an eye on this case and these forums. I have posted a question or two recently (a page or two ago) but not really gotten an answer - I assume because no one knows. I feel like your questions are good. I think the only people that would be able to (possibly) answer those would be law enforcement.

I feel like this case WILL get solved but it will depend on someone getting over their fear and talking to law enforcement. Someone knows something and they need to come forward.

 

[aileanaodh]

So something DID occur to me about the police timeline. You can find a copy of the official Palmyra Police timeline here if you need your memory refreshed:

10 years after Kortne Stouffer vanished, police & family are still seeking answers

Ten years ago today, one local family talked to their 21-year-old daughter without knowing it might be the last time they ever spoke.

lebtown.com

I call your attention to the first sentence of this entry:

July 29, 2012, 01:50
Kortne engages in a verbal altercation with the girlfriend of AB at the Hardware Bar in Harrisburg.


I'm going to ask... Why would that be phrased the way it is? It's strange. If AB had a girlfriend and her name was Jane Doe, then it should be phrased like so:

Kortne engages in a verbal altercation with Jane Doe at the Hardware Bar in Harrisburg.

But no - the girlfriend is not named. But her boyfriend is named instead. And no - he is not a celebrity that I know of. For example if he was Brad Pitt, I could see someone saying she got into an argument with Brad Pitt's girlfriend. Who else finds that odd and possibly revealing about the thought process of the police?

Any of you reading this think about it for a second - do people refer to your significant other as <your name>'s girl/boyfriend? NO - They name the person. This is odd. Who's with me?

 

[dotr]

 

[bringKhome]

Thanks for the replies and posting the timeline. I agree with you regarding the use of "girlfriend" of AB. Who is AB and why is he named and she isn't? Or why not say "KS was involved in a verbal altercation with a couple at the Hardware Bar and was asked to leave by security" We know that KS knew AB. As a matter of fact, I was on KS's Facebook page (still active) and was looking through photos and posts for comments when I came across a group photo from 2010. It's of several people on a couch at what looks like a party. <modsnip - comments from social media>

Maybe they chose "girlfriend" because AB was already in trouble and known to LE. Maybe the girlfriend is unnamed because her and AB were no longer together and she was chosen to remain unnamed. Like for instance the couple that went along with CP, MR and KS. They have also never been id'ed.

I spent the last few days looking through her FB page and a Remember Me page. The posts on her actual page look to have been sanitized a bit. They are mostly from 2011 and some from 2012. I believe many of the comments to posts have been removed as well. I must admit it was a bit depressing reading her posts knowing that she is gone. She seemed to be full of life and have a pretty positive outlook. None of them mention her BF (why I believe her page was edited), or moving out of her home to her new apartment. Her replies to comments tend to be kind and grateful, thank you's and "I miss you's" type of stuff. There was a brief exchange between her and CP about missing each other and needing to hang out soon in 2011.

Speaking of CP, am I the only one who thinks it might be odd that he texted her at 10:07 PM the night her BF was taken into custody? Reason I bring this up is because most guys don't text girls who have live in bf's and ask them to go to the bar with them. Could he have know she was alone? How would have that got around? Who else knew that that wasn't her Mom? I realize it is possible she texted him and this was him getting back to her, but it doesn't say that. I read somewhere that she texted her older brother about going out and he said know. Is the older brother the link between 29 year old CP and 21 y/o KS? Some insight into that dynamic is helpful. I am pretty sure these dots and lines have been covered by LE and the PI on the case.

The knowledge of her eventually being alone at her apartment spread to the wrong people in her orbit might have been the opportunity someone might have been waiting for. More to come and thanks for the help!

 

[bringKhome]

After much thought and research, I have been speculating on what happened to KS and who did it. I believe the time she may have been taken does depend on a number of factors as I have mentioned before. It is possible that CP just made a half hearted effort to see if she was there before he left, assuming she was asleep. But his text "what happened to you?" implies to me that maybe as he lay there half asleep she passed by him as she went outside. One thing for sure is that I would hate to be him. As the last person, that we know of, to see her, having to live all these years with just about everyone speculating that he had something to with it, or the guilt of feeling like he could have done more, or made sure she was there. I for one don't think he did it, or had anything to do with it, and that's just my opinion.

I also have a hard time believing this was an elaborate plan. It's feels and seems to me to be more of a crime of opportunity and/or maybe accidental. I can't believe that KS went silently or easily if she had even the slightest indication that she should fear for her safety. She doesn't seem to have any fear as she goes out that night, or from her actions earlier. She had a chance to go to her Mom's and turned it down, opting to stay alone, until she contacted/was contacted by someone to go out and party. If she did rip off a drug dealer, having parties and hanging out like this only invites retaliation. Maybe BH was the target of something and she got in the way. Not everyone knew he was in jail.

Maybe she went out barefoot to her car to retrieve something as simple as a lighter. They are out there, she walks up their car voluntarily. They subdue her quickly with minimal noise and are gone or they simply invite her to take a quick ride and talk about things and how to make them right again. Again, something that can be done quietly. That might explain the state the dwelling was in when WS arrived Monday morning compared to how CP left it. Again, my questions: Front Door open/closed? 2 or 1 dog? TV on/off?

However, one thing that makes me disagree with more than one abductor is that means it would have to be planned. The more planning, the more ears potentially and the more chances someone will talk. The only people who have a a snowballs chance of keeping their mouth shut would be family, like two brothers. That doesn't mean they won't come forward, but it's less likely they would against each other.

Lebanon County PA, is not exactly a crime ridden area. People don't just vanish. There is drug crime, however it's not a shooting gallery and never has been. Which makes me wonder about accidental........All just my opinion.

 

[bringKhome]

Finally, as this will be my last post for at least a while, I believe that LE has a very good idea of who did it and why. They just don't have physical evidence. They just don't have that person who say's "I know who did it and where she is". I believe they are hoping and waiting for someone to come forward to implicate who they believe did it and locate the body.

This story hits home for me as I have a beautiful daughter who is around KS's age. I can't even begin to imagine if she was not part of our life. I live in the area. I see her picture at the bowling alley and other places. I drive by her apartment once or twice a week. I ask people I interact with in the area grocery stores I service, what they know, what they heard.

I was recently watching a Netflix show about finding missing persons. It was in North Carolina. A sheriff's department missing persons unit was featured. It was very emotional. The dedication. One of the officers said: no matter the outcome he just wants that person to know that he cared about them, that he wanted to find them. That someone was looking for them. That is how I feel about this beautiful young lady.