4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #77

[Nova]

Respectfully, are you defending it?

Regardless of what this "exercise" was intended to do, it was a bad approach to both teaching and mentoring. In fact, I would say perhaps that professor could use some mentoring if he thought this was appropriate. Why do students get to openly criticize grading in a lecture hall of more than 100 students? I can see doing an anonymous survey for feedback & improvement by a TA but not this.

Regardless of how it went down, unless it is a lie (and there appear to be a multitude of witnesses so maybe we need to hear from more of them), it leaves me troubled.

JMO

I have agreed with you in the past on this subject and I still agree with you.

The only thing that gives me pause is that the first "altercation" between BK and his prof came before the class confrontation. I wonder if the teacher was at his/her wits' end and didn't know how else to get through to the TA.

That doesn't make the "gang attack" right, but it makes the exercise a little more understandable.

 

[Nova]

I want to sound in quick on the grading debate. Perhaps the professor saw it as a primo learning exercise. For everyone. And did not predict what did occur. I think BK wasn't suited for any such thing, having to defend his natural, perceived superiority against mere plebes. And it brought out his awkwardness. Creep factor, rigidity, misogyny, you name it. I think another T. A. might've seen it as an opportunity to perform under pressure and could hold his/her own in some regards while adjusting in others. Compromise, cooperation, diplomacy.

IMO it went badly not because it was ill-conceived but because BK himself goes badly.

Anti-social. Anti-establishment.

And it exposed him as ill-eqipped.

He was likely encouraged or directed to revise his grading... and he responded IMO with belligerence, vindictively -- I'll show you.

Thumbed his nose at the directive and gave everybody pablum grades.... which probably gave his superiors all the information they needed about BK. B'bye.

JMO

That's very logical and thoughful. But here's what the students in the class learned from the "Confrontation Event":

1. BK is underperforming as a TA. (It's unlikely BK regains the respect of the students, not for the rest of the year.)

2. The professor has lost control of his/her own course. (It's unlikely s/he regains the respect of the students, not for the rest of the year.)

3. If a student complains loudly enough, s/he can wrest control of grading standards from those paid to establish those standards.

None of the above is anything the students should be learning.

 

[Dotta]

I have agreed with you in the past on this subject and I still agree with you.

The only thing that gives me pause is that the first "altercation" between BK and his prof came before the class confrontation. I wonder if the teacher was at his/her wits' end and didn't know how else to get through to the TA.

That doesn't make the "gang attack" right, but it makes the exercise a little more understandable.

I don't agree with the term "gang attack".

Students were not treated fairly and had the right to voice their opinion and ask for clarification.
I guess it was the last resort to them as they had surely IMO complained before with no effect.

But we have already covered this issue in other threads

JMO

 

[Nova]

How much profit is made when articles (or tv shows) report on things without named and verified sources? I'd guess that with this story and others like it, the media is raking in profits. But wth, doesn't matter if they report the truth. They can say whatever they want to get readers until the preliminary and trial -- although it's entirely possible they might still go for whatever version of reality gets them the most viewers and clicks. All IMHO and not directed at you -- very much directed at so called journalists and the mass media.

From the article you listed above, this is the part that seems honest:
"WSU declined to comment on the investigation or Kohberger’s termination, citing privacy laws that prohibit them from speaking publicly about students and alumni."

The INSIDE EDITION article claims to have obtained a copy of BK's termination letter, and upwards of 85% of the article consists of direct quotes from that letter. It would be VERY easy for other media outlets to prove INSIDE EDITION is lying, if it were.

That WSU refused to comment makes sense (personnel rules), but it doesn't mean the direct quotes from the termination letter are false.

Not every media outlet is Fox News. Most journalists are professionals who want to do their jobs well, though I agree that market pressures make it difficult at times.

 

[Nova]

I don't agree with the term "gang attack".

Students were not treated fairly and had the right to voice their opinion and ask for clarification.
I guess it was the last resort to them as they had surely IMO complained before with no effect.

But we have already covered this issue in other threads

JMO

150 students v. 1 teaching assistant

What would you call it?

 

[Dotta]

150 students v. 1 teaching assistant

What would you call it?

As I said before:

Asking for clarification.
Explanation - as they obviously were not introduced to grading system if they felt bewildered by this person's marks.

Surely the students have the right to know why their work was graded the way it was?

That it came to this shows clearly that this person was not fit as TA.
University is for students not vice versa.

I will leave it at that as I have already written about the issue many times before.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I imagine the trauma would have been horrendous for both girls. I seriously doubt either returned to campus. They may have been given permission to complete their studies remotely, they may have transferred to another university, or they may have simply dropped out for now. JMO.

My first thought is that BF is too traumatized to return for the trial. I think, if the prosecution is calling her to the stand, they need to be certain they need her because the damage that can be done psychologically is pretty extreme. They already have her texts, if that's all they need her for. IMO, either they need her for more than just the texts (i.e. she saw or heard something we don't know about) or they'll let her be and the motion to quash will be approved.

I don't know how much BF could add to the State's case other than what time they got home, any texts, and what happened upon waking up.

I'm pretty sure if they are going to use DM's testimony (which is key in placing BK inside the home at that time) she will have to take the stand, maybe they will not show her face, but honestly, it's unfortunately been blasted all over the internet.

It will traumatic for her, but perhaps she will be willing to speak on behalf of her murdered friends and as a survivor rather than victim of BK's. Both girls got matching tattoos of the murdered friends initials with angel wings.

I wish those 2 young ladies nothing but the best thoughts and hopes for the future with good therapy and family support.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Looks like BF has moved out of State, don't blame her one bit.

(j) Interstate Depositions and Discovery. This rule governs depositions and discovery conducted in Idaho in connection with a civil lawsuit brought in another state.

(1) Statement of Purpose. This rule constitutes Idaho’s implementation of the Uniform Interstate Depositions and Discovery Act as modified herein.

(2) Definitions. In this rule:

(A) 'Foreign jurisdiction' means a state other than this state.

(B) 'Foreign subpoena' means a subpoena issued under authority of a court of record of a foreign jurisdiction.

I.R.C.P. 45. Subpoenas | Supreme Court

 

[girlhasnoname]

He was actually around 16, not a young child.

Sister of accused Idaho killer Bryan Kohberger starred in slasher horror flick

The sister of the suspected killer in the University of Idaho murders apparently starred in a low-budget slasher film years ago.

nbcmontana.com

16 is prime age for a young man filled with testosterone and fantasies. Maybe seeing sis getting all the attention starring in a 'movie' also made him a bit jealous?

<snipped> Good Article from National Inst. Mental Health

1. Adolescence is an important time for brain development.​

Although the brain stops growing in size by early adolescence, the teen years are all about fine-tuning how the brain works. The brain finishes developing and maturing in the mid-to-late 20s. The part of the brain behind the forehead, called the prefrontal cortex, is one of the last parts to mature. This area is responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, and making good decisions.

2. Brain development is related to social experiences during adolescence.​

Changes to the areas of the brain responsible for social processes can lead teens to focus more on peer relationships and social experiences. The emphasis on peer relationships, along with ongoing prefrontal cortex development, might lead teens to take more risks because the social benefits outweigh the possible consequences of a decision. These risks could be negative or dangerous, or they could be positive, such as talking to a new classmate or joining a new club or sport.

The Teen Brain: 7 Things to Know
JMO

 

[Boxer]

150 students v. 1 teaching assistant

What would you call it?

MOO I would call it a bad idea, But MOO that it was n attempt by a professor probably with HR, who had a dense TA that would not listen to advise or direction trying to save the TAs position by having him hear and address complaints directly.

 

[girlhasnoname]

MOO I would call it a bad idea, But MOO that it was n attempt by a professor probably with HR, who had a dense TA that would not listen to advise or direction trying to save the TAs position by having him hear and address complaints directly.

Agreed, BK was known to have an arrogance about him (smartest guy in the room sitting in jail, hah), plus he has been cited as treating females less than stellar.

This wasn't brain surgery, he was a TA.

MOO

 

[NCWatcher]

As I said before:

Asking for clarification.
Explanation - as they obviously were not introduced to grading system if they felt bewildered by this person's marks.

Surely the students have the right to know why their work was graded the way it was?

That it came to this shows clearly that this person was not fit as TA.
University is for students not vice versa.

I will leave it at that as I have already written about the issue many times before.

JMO

Ultimately though ensuring fair grading is the responsibility of the professor. If the students had not been introduced to the grading system for assignments, that's not BK's fault. The grading system is the professor's responsibility, not the TAs, and is usually on the syllabus in my experience. (While only a few students have gone on the record, no one has said BK wasn't following the grading system. No one has said "I did X like the syllabus required and he still failed me." So I expect there wasn't a grading scheme of any sort for the assignments given to students.)

The professor may have been frustrated. But teaching undergrads that mob attacks change grades does no one any favors. And leaving it up to a first semester TA to figure out appropriate expectations for undergrad work and/or outlining expectations only after the fact means the professor wasn't doing his job. Maybe that approach has worked for the prof before but I'm a bit surprised. (But I expect most TAs who feel in the dark about the professors grading scheme grade very leniently. That keeps students quiet but doesn't create reasonable academic standards.)
JMO

 

[Katrinepa]

He had to change his registration and his driver's license by the end of the semester if he wanted to gain in-state tuition for the following academic year. No mystery there - he had every reason to go do that. He did it on time and properly. He did it before he found out he was losing the TAship. IOW, he was operating rationally within the rules of his university situation and aiming to go on to his doctorate.

The loss of the TAship must have been devastating and while I can't remember the date on which the final decision was conveyed to him (there are a couple of different versions here on this thread), it's clear he knew he was in trouble with the prof and with HR. That particular prof taught the big sections of the 101 class and may well have been his only opportunity for a TAship. Since that professor is the one who reported him, he wasn't going to appoint BK to be an RA or recommend him to anyone else. I wonder if we'll hear more about the "altercations" at the preliminary.

IMO.

I don't see a psychotic break per se, though these can vary. I feel that if he were so angry/upset/broken, why would he not go after the Professor who took away his TA job. That person was physically more available it seems to me. He seems to have a strange, overbearing attitude, and few social skills in group situations. It would be interesting to know why one type of rejection may have triggered this violence, as opposed to another. I don't see it as 'opportunity', as this was obviously well planned, with his wearing black, having he weapon, etc. Very curious, and it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I'm in no way coming here to be an apologist for BK but sounds like maybe some of the things he'd been working towards were failing to stick and materialise = his TA role, the police application. Being confronted about the grading does come off as a form of group and institutional bullying to me without knowing much more about it, it *could* certainly be seen that way. We know he struggled socially and maybe he experienced many small interpersonal rejections on a daily basis, especially if he's not neuro-typical, socially awkward, sexually frustrated. We know he battled substance addiction and had struggled as an overweight younger person.

If BK had a lot of his ego and self-esteem and narcissistic supply tied into performing and felt in control of life when he had his ducks in a row and a bit superior, especially intellectually / academically, it's possible he was in a state of narcissistic collapse, which is a very serious situation for someone with that personality structure. JMO MOO

 

[Boxer]

Agreed, BK was known to have an arrogance about him (smartest guy in the room sitting in jail, hah), plus he has been cited as treating females less than stellar.

This wasn't brain surgery, he was a TA.

MOO

And think how the professor must now feel having had so much conflict and two altercations with an alleged murderer so directly.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I don't see a psychotic break per se, though these can vary. I feel that if he were so angry/upset/broken, why would he not go after the Professor who took away his TA job. That person was physically more available it seems to me. He seems to have a strange, overbearing attitude, and few social skills in group situations. It would be interesting to know why one type of rejection may have triggered this violence, as opposed to another. I don't see it as 'opportunity', as this was obviously well planned, with his wearing black, having he weapon, etc. Very curious, and it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

^ Per my post above, 'narc collapse' can result in psychotic break. JMO MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

And think how the professor must now feel having had so much conflict and two altercations with an alleged murderer so directly.

It will be interesting to know what these altercations were. Do you think they will be described in court?

 

[Boxer]

Ultimately though ensuring fair grading is the responsibility of the professor. If the students had not been introduced to the grading system for assignments, that's not BK's fault. The grading system is the professor's responsibility, not the TAs, and is usually on the syllabus in my experience. (While only a few students have gone on the record, no one has said BK wasn't following the grading system. No one has said "I did X like the syllabus required and he still failed me." So I expect there wasn't a grading scheme of any sort for the assignments given to students.)

The professor may have been frustrated. But teaching undergrads that mob attacks change grades does no one any favors. And leaving it up to a first semester TA to figure out appropriate expectations for undergrad work and/or outlining expectations only after the fact means the professor wasn't doing his job. Maybe that approach has worked for the prof before but I'm a bit surprised. (But I expect most TAs who feel in the dark about the professors grading scheme grade very leniently. That keeps students quiet but doesn't create reasonable academic standards.)
JMO

Do you gave a copy of the syllabus?

 

[gliving]

The combination of D.M.'s statements to law enforcement, reviews of forensic downloads of records from B.F. and D.M.'s phone, and video of a suspect video as described below leads investigators to believe the homicides occurred between 4:00 a.m. and 4:25 am.

Read the affidavit on how investigators identified the Idaho killings suspect | CNN

Idaho officials have publicly released court documents -- including a probably cause affidavit -- in prosecutors' case against Bryan Kohberger, who faces four counts of first-degree murder and one count of burglary in the killings of four University of Idaho undergraduate students.

www.cnn.com

 

[wary]

It will be interesting to know what these altercations were. Do you think they will be described in court?

I can’t think how altercations with the professor would be considered relevant, in court.

But I’d like to hear from an attorney. @PrairieWind ?

MOO