4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #77

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Observe_dont_Absorb said:
I agree narc injury doesn't cause psychosis but narc collapse can do. That is when the entire structure one has built one's self self esteem and identity around and whole belief system about how things work suddenly falls away.

I am unfortunately very well aware of what psychosis and schizophrenia are, not through my own first hand experience but that of someone very close to me, slowly creeping into mania and florid psychosis many many times.

I guess we'd need to know a whole lot more about what he was thinking and feeling. Will BK be subject to a mandatory psychiatric evaluation and report for the court?
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I know what it is, but I disagree. Narcissistic collapse isn't a clinical term. It basically means someone who's world has fallen apart. IMO, BK's world hadn't fallen apart on 11/13. Second, the symptoms of psychosis would be contradictory to the way this all unfolded. Killing 4 people with a knife, in the dark, in a home he'd supposedly never been in, in 15 minutes, does not scream psychosis to me. It screams planned and calculated crime.
 
Observe_dont_Absorb said:
Would it come out in court if he was? I suppose he *might* have been known for doing weird stuff, would anyone remember aside from his close family members and if they did, would they have been telling stories to news sites or keeping quiet?
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Friends from childhood have talked about him being obese as a teen, him being a victim of bullying, then becoming the bully, his family members mentioned him wanting them to change their pots and pans for him because of his vegan diet. Yes, I do think they would tell stories to news sites about him killing animals as a young boy if he had.

JMO.
 
girlhasnoname said:
How would we know that? It's confidential information and it's something the parents might not have known or wanted to disclose to anyone else. I know it's not something I would share about my adolescent child.

MOO
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It's not confidential information. The only people who couldn't talk about it would be a medical professional. But these things don't happen in a vacuum. Kids like this aren't "perfectly normal" at school and then in secret, they do things like this. Kids who show these traits are the ones who set fire in the boy's bathroom in 3rd grade or the kid on the street that all the other kids fear because he bashed in the head of his peer or the kid who got arrested at age 10 for assault or robbery. I think we'd know if BK did such things, considering what we know from his "friends" from childhood.
 
BeginnerSleuther said:
I know what it is, but I disagree. Narcissistic collapse isn't a clinical term. It basically means someone who's world has fallen apart. IMO, BK's world hadn't fallen apart on 11/13. Second, the symptoms of psychosis would be contradictory to the way this all unfolded. Killing 4 people with a knife, in the dark, in a home he'd supposedly never been in, in 15 minutes, does not scream psychosis to me. It screams planned and calculated crime.
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Ah OK, I agree with 'world falling apart' and that's what I was suggesting may have happened if he was operating within a very narrow world view of what his definition of success was and maintaining total control over that, until he wasn't maybe? Losing his TA post after being given some humiliating warnings no doubt, getting a knock back from the police application, and maybe a couple of other rejections could certainly be framed as world falling apart surely?

We know the incident was somewhat planned but until we know a lot more there's not really enough info to rule out or rule in how organised and planned.

Also, in general and not in relation to BK but psychosis / delusion / mania does not preclude someone from being planned and organised. I have seen first hand the medium term planning and execution of actions in someone completely and utterly psychotic because they had a determined belief. Like I say, I'm not trying to diagnose or excuse BK actions but until we know more, couldn't it be said his actions had been odd and his world was falling apart maybe? JMO MOO
 
BeginnerSleuther said:
Depends on the context of the altercations. Threats? Relevant, IMO. Used to prove he had a violent temper? Relevant, IMO. Used to suggest he was losing control? Relevant, IMO.

All MOO.
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I’m going by other cases where things that seemed to me to be very relevant were disallowed. The classic phrase is: “more prejudicial than probative.”

So, the altercation indicates that BK seems to have a hot temper. But how is that probative in a case where there’s no evidence, (that we know of,) that the victims did anything to provoke him?

just MOO, and I won’t mind if I’m wrong.
 
Dotta said:
As I said before:

Asking for clarification.
Explanation - as they obviously were not introduced to grading system if they felt bewildered by this person's marks.

Surely the students have the right to know why their work was graded the way it was?

That it came to this shows clearly that this person was not fit as TA.
University is for students not vice versa.

I will leave it at that as I have already written about the issue many times before.

JMO
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We can't know that "it came to this". We weren't there.

Yes, students have every right to know why they were graded as they were. But no employee of any establishment deserves to be embarrassed in front of 150 "customers" during the employee's first weeks on the job.

The proper response would have been for the prof to take 10 essays graded by BK and then read them and show the assistant how they should have been marked.

I would say the same were the "employee" a rocket scientist or a janitor.
Public humiliation is not the way to "teach" anybody, not even a graduate student. It's actually an elaborate form of bullying. As I have said before, I have been both a TA and a supervisor of TAs for many years.
 
Observe_dont_Absorb said:
Ah OK, I agree with 'world falling apart' and that's what I was suggesting may have happened if he was operating within a very narrow world view of what his definition of success was and maintaining total control over that, until he wasn't maybe? Losing his TA post after being given some humiliating warnings no doubt, getting a knock back from the police application, and maybe a couple of other rejections could certainly be framed as world falling apart surely?

We know the incident was somewhat planned but until we know a lot more there's not really enough info to rule out or rule in how organised and planned.

Also, in general and not in relation to BK but psychosis / delusion / mania does not preclude someone from being planned and organised. I have seen first hand the medium term planning and execution of actions in someone completely and utterly psychotic because they had a determined belief. Like I say, I'm not trying to diagnose or excuse BK actions but until we know more, couldn't it be said his actions had been odd and his world was falling apart maybe? JMO MOO
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I think "world falling apart" is hyperbolic. Could he have felt that way? Possibly, we don't know. But I don't think the issues he faced are objectively consistent with world falling apart. Either way though, it wouldn't have caused a psychotic break.

A determined belief (that's not true) is more consistent with a delusional disorder. You can be delusional without being psychotic (delusion is a symptom of psychosis, but is not the definition of psychosis). Delusional people maintain executive function. Psychotic people do not. That doesn't mean that psychotic people are incapable of planning, but they have trouble with organization, attention, and orientation because that's the area of the brain affected.
 
Boxer said:
MOO I would call it a bad idea, But MOO that it was n attempt by a professor probably with HR, who had a dense TA that would not listen to advise or direction trying to save the TAs position by having him hear and address complaints directly.
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Or hasten his demise? Given the professor’s expertise, perhaps he sensed something was “off” about BK and wanted him gone.
 
wary said:
I’m going by other cases where things that seemed to me to be very relevant were disallowed. The classic phrase is: “more prejudicial than probative.”

So, the altercation indicates that BK seems to have a hot temper. But how is that probative in a case where there’s no evidence, (that we know of,) that the victims did anything to provoke him?

just MOO, and I won’t mind if I’m wrong.
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IANAL, but I think it depends on the strategy the prosecution uses. I could see him having a violent temper being relevant if there's any indication the victims rejected him or, worse, if he dated one (thinking of the Tinder warrants, for example). If they wanted to prove a pattern of domineering, abusive, or violent behavior, I could see them trying to use it. Don't know if the judge would allow it.

MOO.
 
Observe_dont_Absorb said:
It will be interesting to know what these altercations were. Do you think they will be described in court?
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Only if the DA wants to introduce BK's professional problems as a possible motive.

I, for one, will be surprised if the prosecution brings it up and I can't see how it would help the defense. A lot of professors are jerks; I don't see a jury letting BK off because of it.
 
Nova said:
We can't know that "it came to this". We weren't there.

Yes, students have every right to know why they were graded as they were. But no employee of any establishment deserves to be embarrassed in front of 150 "customers" during the employee's first weeks on the job.

The proper response would have been for the prof to take 10 essays graded by BK and then read them and show the assistant how they should have been marked.

I would say the same were the "employee" a rocket scientist or a janitor.
Public humiliation is not the way to "teach" anybody, not even a graduate student. It's actually an elaborate form of bullying. As I have said before, I have been both a TA and a supervisor of TAs for many years.
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I hoped to finish this exchange haha

If anybody was bullied - it was students!
By eccentric, arrogant and creepy TA.

The students (who pay for education) were the victims of inadequate staff.

If this person had the privilege to be TA at the Uni I studied - well, he would be "transported in a wheelbarrow" out of the building.

And our students don't have to pay - education is free in my country.
The whole nation pay for studies in taxes.

Nobody has to put up with "mad hatter".

Thank you, I have nothing more to add.

The End :)
 
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No one knew BK was unhinged.

No one IMO expected he'd handle that groupthink session badly or that it would play into grievance collecting or that, if humiliated, he'd go passive, passive, passive, murderous aggressive!

Jmo
 
gliving said:
Who to believe.

A local reporter

https://twitter.com/x/status/1608882801604194304

Or Ashleigh Banfield whose source is a tiktok video (per comments on tweet)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1623922896367230977
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The twitter post dated December 30, 2022 says that BK was registered for the spring 2023 semester. If that is the case, BK probably registered for the spring semester before he received notice that his teaching assistantship would not be renewed. Early registration is usually encouraged at universities for both undergraduate and graduate students, so BK may have registered for spring semester 2023 in November or early December.
 
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