4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #78

Status
Not open for further replies.
We can use the car in more than one way without violating any part of logic (or common sense). And the matter will ultimately be decided by the Court and the Jury, as trier of fact. I can do it. Others have done it. So there are a group of us doing it. None of us devoid of logic, reason or common sense. Logic, in particular, depends on its premises (and you apparently disagree with some of us about the premises - but the logic is still sound).

There's no legal rule that says the car can't be evidence to more than one other event. I can certainly do it.

The car was not self-driving. Ergo, someone drove the car. If Bryan Kohberger got out of that same car in Clarkston the next day around noon, I feel the burden is on the defense to show that he wasn't the usual driver of the car. He was surely the owner of the car. That's relevant.

That has nothing to do with the time of the murders. But again, the car can be used. It's seen doing a three-point turn and parking near the house, then speeding away about 25 minutes later. That is consistent with what DM saw. So now, the car helps to establish direction of travel as well as possible time of the crime. ME evidence will be presented as well.

The car might also contain evidence, embedded in its various components - it has been taken apart and it will be used as evidence, again.

Yes, the DNA still matters. The car doesn't establish that BK went into the house in the same way that the DNA and DM's testimony does. Taken together, one has to notice that DNA, car, phone records and return to the scene of the crime are all separate data points, each of which establish more than one thing.

IMO. There is no violation of logic.
 
We can use the car in more than one way without violating any part of logic (or common sense). And the matter will ultimately be decided by the Court and the Jury, as trier of fact. I can do it. Others have done it. So there are a group of us doing it. None of us devoid of logic, reason or common sense. Logic, in particular, depends on its premises (and you apparently disagree with some of us about the premises - but the logic is still sound).

There's no legal rule that says the car can't be evidence to more than one other event. I can certainly do it.

The car was not self-driving. Ergo, someone drove the car. If Bryan Kohberger got out of that same car in Clarkston the next day around noon, I feel the burden is on the defense to show that he wasn't the usual driver of the car. He was surely the owner of the car. That's relevant.

That has nothing to do with the time of the murders. But again, the car can be used. It's seen doing a three-point turn and parking near the house, then speeding away about 25 minutes later. That is consistent with what DM saw. So now, the car helps to establish direction of travel as well as possible time of the crime. ME evidence will be presented as well.

The car might also contain evidence, embedded in its various components - it has been taken apart and it will be used as evidence, again.

Yes, the DNA still matters. The car doesn't establish that BK went into the house in the same way that the DNA and DM's testimony does. Taken together, one has to notice that DNA, car, phone records and return to the scene of the crime are all separate data points, each of which establish more than one thing.

IMO. There is no violation of logic.

Except I never said you can't use the car for two reasons. I said you can't use the car to determine time of death. What DM saw and a car speeding away does not determine time of death.

MOO
 
or at 4:53 it was 28 degrees, overcast and no wind in Moscow, ID (where there had been ice fog earlier and again a bit later)


Well, this isn't the first time that Wunderground disagreed with TimeAndDate.com. I wish the TAD site would tell where its stations are located (Wunderground uses pins on maps to show you where the data come from).

Also, I only see data for 6 am as the closest point in time (often the coldest point in the day - but that depends on how often the temps are taken). Since the high on Sunday was apparently 32F, I'm going to go with it being in the high 20's at 4-6 am. I need to learn to use timeanddate.com, I guess.

IMO.

Except I never said any of that. I said you can't use the car to determine time of death. What DM saw and a car speeding away does not determine time of death.

MOO
I think I get what you're saying. But I'd put it differently (and wouldn't be claiming I was using logic to do so). Just different premises.

The car contained the killer is the first premise (are you also objecting to that?)

The car arrived around 4:02 and left around 4:25. (I believe this is established, so it's my premise)

Ergo, the killer did the murders in between 4:02 and 4:25 and, apparently, the autopsies are in concurrence as the autopsies were part of the PCA (redacted from our view - but not the Judge's).

It is also one of my premises that the Judge read the entire PCA and acted accordingly.

I can see someone disagreeing with any of those premises. And I didn't quote you or say that you said anything - I'm simply joining in the discussion about the car.

IMO.
 
Clear as mud to me; our lawyers will have to weigh in. Think it just notes that the motion was filed.
@Helechawagirl. It's not a motion by def. team or BF's atty. Not the court's order or ruling on a motion. The doc filed is a stipulation, an agreement between def't & BF.

@Nila Aella Thank you very much for linking reporter's tweet (below) summarizing the content of the stipulation and w a pdf of the stipulation itself.

"An update on the Bethany Funke subpoena in the Bryan Kohberger case… She has agreed to sit for an “interview” with his defense counsel. His team is dropping the effort to force her appearance at the June preliminary hearing."
 
I think I get what you're saying. But I'd put it differently (and wouldn't be claiming I was using logic to do so). Just different premises.

The car contained the killer is the first premise (are you also objecting to that?)

The car arrived around 4:02 and left around 4:25. (I believe this is established, so it's my premise)

Ergo, the killer did the murders in between 4:02 and 4:25 and, apparently, the autopsies are in concurrence as the autopsies were part of the PCA (redacted from our view - but not the Judge's).

It is also one of my premises that the Judge read the entire PCA and acted accordingly.

I can see someone disagreeing with any of those premises. And I didn't quote you or say that you said anything - I'm simply joining in the discussion about the car.

IMO.

No, that isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying that if you want to prove the car contained the killer, then you have to establish people were killed when the car was there, IMO.

<modsnip>
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If true, that would completely change the course of this case. But is seems to be rumor. And somewhat fanciful.
Obviously, BK could not be dressed in black wearing a mask while simultaneously naked.
It is possible that there was another "house guest" who fled the carnage, but he would have left evidence behind such as clothes, wallet, ID, phone, et al.
There could be two killers, but why would one be completely dressed and the other naked?
If the guy in black was the delivery man and BK was the naked killer, there should be tons of BK DNA all over the house.
I would also hope the doordash driver wasn't doing naked deliveries.

He could have stripped off all his blooded clothing before leaving?
 
in my opinion, is: “BF was in the house that night. She talked to LE, so we want to question her too.” (My wording, not theirs.)

There’s none of the naked man, running man details.

MOO
Thanks, agree with you @wary
Could the person DM heard say "there's someone here" have been Funke?

Sidenote: I'm not against Bethany Funke testifying.
IME the defense tends to present victim-witnesses in a different light from the prosecution, more the crazy or hostile witness light which might be some of the naked man running nonsense.
JMO


PCA [pg 4]: A short time later, D.M. said she heard who she thought was Goncalves say something to the effect of "there's someone here."
 
or at 4:53 it was 28 degrees, overcast and no wind in Moscow, ID (where there had been ice fog earlier and again a bit later)


Sorry - I must not have noticed the date slipped.and made a mistake,
Your link tells me it was 30 and overcast at 3 and 4am and overcast.
 
He could have stripped off all his blooded clothing before leaving?

It's possible. I believe he had to strip off the clothing at some point, but it sounds like when DM saw him, he was still clothed (and heading in the direction of the slider). In that case, he must have paused in the kitchen or the living room to do so, unseen by DM but seen by BF (who up until this issue, had apparently been sleeping downstairs on the first floor).

I believe he needed to stuff his things in a plastic bag or duffel or container before getting in the car, at any rate. If he didn't, there should be some blood traces in the car. OTOH, he did kill 3 of his victims while they were under covers/on a mattress and he didn't slash any necks that we know of (so possibly no arterial blood spurt).

OTOH, maybe he is far more disorganized than I had thought. Maybe he strips on the deck, realizes he forgot the sheath. dashes back in, is seen by BF, runs out without the sheath. Maybe he didn't plan anything to protect his car.

IMO.
 
Not cold at all actually. I had always wanted to look that up. The cold front that will leave snow won't arrive until Tuesday morning, IIRC.
Sorry was wrong - slipped on the date on the historical weather the site, it was 30 and overcast at around 4am.

Still, I think if you are from a cold area it's just not that daunting to outside for a short bit.
 
orry - I must not have noticed the date slipped.and made a mistake,
Your link tells me it was 30 and overcast at 3 and 4am and overcast.
No sorry necessary. At all. But I'm not seeing what you're seeing -- I know I need glasses, but?? -- Edited to add that I agree a fast run in cold weather might be uncomfortable, but not impossible
3:17 am
wt-17.svg
28 °FOvercast.3 mph89%30.27 "Hg7 mi
3:53 am
wt-14.svg
28 °FIce fog.5 mph89%30.36 "Hg6 mi
4:53 am
wt-17.svg
28 °FOvercast.No wind
 
i was looking at the bigger graph above with just highs lows and cloud cover at least on my phone it looks that way. - anyway your chart above is obviously correct-suoer nippy.
 
I believe there was statement that at the time the PCA was given to the judge that he was informed that DMs statement was not necessary for the arrest warrant, the other evidence stood alone.
 
Sorry was wrong - slipped on the date on the historical weather the site, it was 30 and overcast at around 4am.

Still, I think if you are from a cold area it's just not that daunting to outside for a short bit.

I agree. Not that daunting. Would be different if it were 0F. Since it appears the murderer was wearing Van's (not a cold weather shoe), I am assuming the murderer felt that was appropriate footgear.

Seems like nearly every case has some strange mystery in it (in this case, what the murderer was wearing) where we know only a few facts and have to be patient.

IMO.
 
The social media activity (XK), the cell phone activity (KG and MM texting the ex) along with DM’s seeing a man in black walking past her, along with thud and whimpering heard in surveillance, along with DM hearing things in house such as “someone’s here” etc…. Lots to pinpoint the time of the crime. It all adds up together to create a timeline. And the fact that the car was there at those exact times then speeds away and no more social media activity or texts from victims after that. All these things together. Not just the car that pinpoints timeline. All moo

ETA: but I completely get the point about you can’t use the car to determine both without other factors
 
I miss KG's father. We need an insider who is vocal. Too bad free speech has been sacrificed completely for what the judge thinks are more important rights superceding *almost* all rights of the public (we do get those "blind leading the blind" absent-any-context doc releases online - yippee).

And no, it's not just prurient interest that has me longing for sunshine on these legal proceedings.

JMO
But was he really an insider? He had some information prior to the arrest and he briefly mentioned that there was no connection between his daughter and BK. However, it's not as though he is getting information either. Nor is it absolute that he knows every person Kaylee knew or came into contact with.

If the media were more circumspect or had more accountability to report just the facts, I'd be more opposed to keeping information from the public. As it is, even mainstream media has devolved into opinion journalism more often than not. At least we have reason to be suspicious of the generic "sources" and people still run with those reports.

My only concern with the order here is that if BK is not the killer, the public doesn't have enough information to be on the watch for an alternate suspect.
IMO, KG is free to speak. His attorney can't, but I think he can. JMO.

From the 2/24/23 redacted summary of a 1/13/23 in Chambers Zoom conference with Judge Marshall and case-related attorneys:

"Judge Marshall appreciates perspective. Judge Marshall reiterates she is hot saying that clients cannot talk to the .media but does question whether it is wise for them to talk to the media. Reminds lawyers they have a responsibility in giving advice to their clients. If any lawyer has questions about this, or takes· issue with this, they should contact the Idaho State Bar and seek clarification."

Stipulation to Unseal With Redactions Posted here: Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest
 
Sorry was wrong - slipped on the date on the historical weather the site, it was 30 and overcast at around 4am.

Still, I think if you are from a cold area it's just not that daunting to outside for a short bit.
If you recall the food truck video (a few hrs before) the mostly young people are just wearing shirts and jackets- they are not really bundled up
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
163
Guests online
2,626
Total visitors
2,789

Forum statistics

Threads
594,064
Messages
17,998,404
Members
229,304
Latest member
catheonlineghost
Back
Top