Found Safe UT - Kai Zhuang, 17, international student, 28 December 2023 *ransom demand*

[cocomod]

Google maps tells me Provo and Riverdale are 1 hour distance, by car.

How did a 17yo kid with no car mentioned with no $ mentioned make it to Provo? I doubt there's a bustling public transportation infrastructure in Utah that would make this distance easily traveled by a kid?

I am from Utah and yes FrontRunner is cheap and easy. There is also UTA bus that is super cheap. My neighbor rode it every day back and forth from Salt Lake area to Utah County (Provo area)

It is SO cold at night even though this is such a strange year with no snow in the city this December.

 

[Knox]

I’m struggling to read between the lines here. Is the student doing this alone, or is he with another party? But I guess my biggest question is why. Money?

 

[fridaybaker]

Not me, Laughing and I see that Laytonian hasn’t been around in the last year. I can’t think of anyone else right on.

 

[fridaybaker]

There’s just something inherently hinky about a 17 year old Chinese student going camping in the middle of winter in Utah. I can see native Utahans, or others especially from the Rocky Mountain states, but I think hikers that intrepid are very, very, few and far between other than that.

Very worrisome, and would certainly fit in with a “lie low, kid, or we kill your family” type of ransom scenario. (Although I have to say, that’s a new one on me. Just telling someone to stay hidden? Wouldn’t they generally make sure he stays hidden by tying him to a chair in an old warehouse. I know, I know. It’s the only way I’ve seen it done on TV, though!)

 

[Limecat]

Depends what you mean by 'in on' it.

Did you see the links @dotr posted upthread about a virtual kidnapping scam that was happening in Vancouver? Chinese students in the U.S./Canada are accused of committing a crime by someone claiming to be a Chinese government official. They are told they need to go into hiding to protect their family. Meanwhile, the parents are told their child was kidnapped and are sent a ransom.

Seems like something like that may be happening here.

I did see it. I just found it interesting that police had contact with him on December 20th IIRC, so did he know that far in advance that this scam was going to be perpetrated on his family? Meaning, had these fake kidnappers already threatened him/his family and told him by such and such a date he had to “disappear“ for their safety?
And camping this time of year seems very risky, especially if you aren’t a well-seasoned and prepared camper.
I guess my thoughts went down different paths learning he’d interacted with LE shortly before everything went down. It’s all very confusing. Just MOO

 

[nannymo]

My initial instinct was leading me to believe this is a hoax. Then when I read about the camping incident, I really did feel like this is a kid trying to get money from his parents. Now I am leaning toward the fake kidnappers since it has been happening quite often. I am not sure now. Very strange story.

Also, what led LE to think he was taken violently from the home, but the host parents didn't even know he was missing?

Do they live in a huge home and heard nothing? Did this young man stage his room to appear like a struggle ensued or did someone really come into the home? How did they get in without the host parents knowing? A lot of red flags to me thatsomething is not ringing true here. JMO

 

[ch_13]

(Although I have to say, that’s a new one on me. Just telling someone to stay hidden? Wouldn’t they generally make sure he stays hidden by tying him to a chair in an old warehouse. I know, I know. It’s the only way I’ve seen it done on TV, though!)

snipped.

I don't know if that's what happened in this case, but in the scam the "kidnappers" aren't real and aren't even in the same country. They are calling him from China and threatening him over the phone. You have a relatively naive kid from a wealthy Chinese family who's out of his homeland for the first time. A fast-talker calls them and gives them a spiel about how they and their family is in trouble with the Chinese government, and they need to go into hiding. Apparently, sometimes they have the kid send photos of themselves looking like they were tied up, and they send those on to the parents as a part of the ransom demand.

It's kind of surprising to me that it works, but I think it's an ingenious con that plays on Chinese cultural and societal norms.

 

[ch_13]

I did see it. I just found it interesting that police had contact with him on December 20th IIRC, so did he know that far in advance that this scam was going to be perpetrated on his family? Meaning, had these fake kidnappers already threatened him/his family and told him by such and such a date he had to “disappear“ for their safety?
And camping this time of year seems very risky, especially if you aren’t a well-seasoned and prepared camper.
I guess my thoughts went down different paths learning he’d interacted with LE shortly before everything went down. It’s all very confusing. Just MOO

I'm curious as to the nature of his interaction with police. Was he acting suspiciously in some way? Did he break some traffic law? Maybe they interceded in a situation because of his lack of English fluency.

And if he bought camping equipment, did the host family not notice that he had acquired all this gear? We don't know what else he bought beyond the tent, but that stuff will take up a lot of room. Where did he keep it for that week?

 

[nannymo]

It's also very expensive, so it appears he had money or access to money. Maybe a debit or credit card?

 

[wnk]

@RickshawFan , does this look like appropriate equipment to you?

Anyone know a Utah-based poster? Possibly @fridaybaker @laytonian ? Any local press, etc?

jmho ymmv lrr

Utahn here.

So far, this winter has been pretty mild along the Wasatch Front (especially compared to last year), but any camping locations are going to be higher elevations, where it's going to be much cooler. I'm not big into camping, so I can't say for sure whether that tent would be adequate (I think it'd probably depend more on what sort of sleeping bag you had), but you're probably looking at temperatures in the low 20s overnight.

 

[Limecat]

I'm curious as to the nature of his interaction with police. Was he acting suspiciously in some way? Did he break some traffic law? Maybe they interceded in a situation because of his lack of English fluency.

And if he bought camping equipment, did the host family not notice that he had acquired all this gear? We don't know what else he bought beyond the tent, but that stuff will take up a lot of room. Where did he keep it for that week?

I’m curious too, and wish we had more info. This whole situation from start to now has been so confusing.

 

[Herat]

I'm curious as to the nature of his interaction with police. Was he acting suspiciously in some way? Did he break some traffic law? Maybe they interceded in a situation because of his lack of English fluency.

And if he bought camping equipment, did the host family not notice that he had acquired all this gear? We don't know what else he bought beyond the tent, but that stuff will take up a lot of room. Where did he keep it for that week?

It has been more than 10 days since the contact with Provo PD.

I really don't think he has been out camping that entire time. I think he would have found someone to shelter him by now. The camping bit may have been him sending a message that he was going camping, but actually ending up somewhere else.

 

[ch_13]

It has been more than 10 days since the contact with Provo PD.

I really don't think he has been out camping that entire time. I think he would have found someone to shelter him by now. The camping bit may have been him sending a message that he was going camping, but actually ending up somewhere else.

No, he clearly hasn't been camping for 10 days. He may have bought the gear on the 20th, but he only went missing on the 28th. Hence, my question about where the gear was during that week when he was still living with his host family.

 

[RickshawFan]

@RickshawFan , does this look like appropriate equipment to you?

Anyone know a Utah-based poster? Possibly @fridaybaker @laytonian ? Any local press, etc?

jmho ymmv lrr

The photo is too blurry for me to make out the brand. The shape of the brand inscription seems like it could be a knock off from The North Face, but not TNF (The North Face) itself. It is good that it has a full fly and likely a bathtub floor.

There is no brand on the fly. But Keltys traditionally are often blue and white, and the brand logo might correspond to the white lettering on the tent (or a Kelty knockoff). Though there are guys, I don't believe I'd see guy attachments like those on a "nicer" tent, but I may be reaching with that detail. An inexperienced person might not even know how or why to use the guys, anyway and also might not have enough tent pegs to use them (you have to buy extra).

It looks like he's shopping in Walmart or another big box store, since they're selling Reynolds Wrap. It would be a very bad idea to buy equipment at a big box store. For starters, you have to know what you're doing, and since he's a student from China, this seems like not a good recipe for enough experience in the camping equipment arena. If he'd had help from someone trained (e.g. at REI, Backcountry, or other focused outdoor store), I would be more optimistic with quality and appropriateness.

I sure wouldn't be in my right mind if I went camping this time of year in gear like that. It's winter, and one snowfall, even if you're warm enough, would collapse that tent. A wind would flatten the poles to the ground. This is partly because the fabric is looped onto poles. While this makes the tent easy to set up, the loops just slide up the poles when a wind comes along (this has actually happened to me when I borrowed someone else's tent in summer, and the tent went totally flat), and there are only two poles, which makes it highly susceptible to wind.

And, if the camper is so inexperienced that he decides to stay warm with a flame in the tent, run a lantern for light, or cook on flame, the odds are high for fatality by carbon monoxide poisoning.

Consider, in all of this, it gets dark super early this time of year, so you'd be sitting around in the pitch black for a good piece of the day.

 

[cocomod]

I am honestly worried about this young man. Not understanding the cold winter nights in Utah could definitely be deadly. I don’t however understand how he would be camping because Frontrunner and UTA wouldn’t take him to the mountain; it also wouldn’t drop him off up the canyon. However, it makes me really think someone is helping him - I hope helping and not hurting

 

[ch_13]

The photo is too blurry for me to make out the brand. The shape of the brand inscription seems like it could be a knock off from The North Face, but not TNF (The North Face) itself. It is good that it has a full fly and likely a bathtub floor.

There is no brand on the fly. But Keltys traditionally are often blue and white, and the brand logo might correspond to the white lettering on the tent (or a Kelty knockoff). Though there are guys, I don't believe I'd see guy attachments like those on a "nicer" tent, but I may be reaching with that detail. An inexperienced person might not even know how or why to use the guys, anyway and also might not have enough tent pegs to use them (you have to buy extra).

It looks like he's shopping in Walmart or another big box store, since they're selling Reynolds Wrap. It would be a very bad idea to buy equipment at a big box store. For starters, you have to know what you're doing, and since he's a student from China, this seems like not a good recipe for enough experience in the camping equipment arena. If he'd had help from someone trained (e.g. at REI, Backcountry, or other focused outdoor store), I would be more optimistic with quality and appropriateness.

I sure wouldn't be in my right mind if I went camping this time of year in gear like that. It's winter, and one snowfall, even if you're warm enough, would collapse that tent. A wind would flatten the poles to the ground. This is partly because the fabric is looped onto poles. While this makes the tent easy to set up, the loops just slide up the poles when a wind comes along (this has actually happened to me when I borrowed someone else's tent in summer, and the tent went totally flat), and there are only two poles, which makes it highly susceptible to wind.

And, if the camper is so inexperienced that he decides to stay warm with a flame in the tent, run a lantern for light, or cook on flame, the odds are high for fatality by carbon monoxide poisoning.

Consider, in all of this, it gets dark super early this time of year, so you'd be sitting around in the pitch black for a good piece of the day.

Walmart's house brand for camping and outdoor gear is Ozark Trail and the logo seems to match up.


Im my experience, Ozark Trail tents are better for backyards or for car camping in the summer, and less suited to more extreme environments.

 

[RickshawFan]

There's a campground next to the Route 6 SE of Provo; you could easily hitch there. Spanish Fork. I know about it, because I saw it while driving by and probably should have stayed there (I might have settled for a Walmart parking lot instead, I forget). It looked nice. There might even have been picnic table shelters.

 

[RickshawFan]

Walmart's house brand for camping and outdoor gear is Ozark Trail and the logo seems to match up.
View attachment 471300

Im my experience, Ozark Trail tents are probably better for backyards or car camping, and less suited to more extreme environments.

Yes, that logo might work. It's the full fly that's holding me back. The poles in the photo are fiberglass (easy to break), so that would be on the lower end of tents. I can tell the poles are fiberglass from the ferrules.

Ahhh....it's gotta be this one. $89 eeeeeeek!

This one actually has a brow pole (a third pole, so I was mistaken above).

Tents & Shelters - Backpacking Tents - Kelty

www.kelty.com

 

[RickshawFan]

It has been more than 10 days since the contact with Provo PD.

I really don't think he has been out camping that entire time. I think he would have found someone to shelter him by now. The camping bit may have been him sending a message that he was going camping, but actually ending up somewhere else.

He would need a lot of food in that time....

 

[cocomod]

There was a lady that spent 5 months up Spanish Fork canyon and was found alive. Everyone was quite surprised.

Woman Missing for Months Found Alive at Utah Campground After Relying on Grass, Moss to Survive

Though the 47-year-old woman "had lost a significant amount of weight and was weak," authorities praised her as "resourceful"

people.com