Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181

[WildHuncher]

My notes are so many that I'm now officially disorganized. Are you referring to the girls that passed BG as they were leaving? I know there were others on the bridge that day which are not regularly talked about. I don't need a link, just where this dressed in all black person was seen. KWIM?

Blue Jacket Guy and Black Jacket Guy are one guy.

 

[FromGermany1]

Yes on the alias. Does this help?

"However, the Carroll County Jail record lists Mr Allen as also going by the alias of <modsnip - as there is NO VERIFICATION that this person is the same as RA please use ONLY initials>

Delphi murders: Everything we know about suspect Richard Allen as he is pictured for first time since arrest

Richard Allen is a married 50-year-old man who works in the local CVS store in the heart of Delphi – where Libby German and Abby Williams lived with their families

news.yahoo.com

Ohhh, yes, I remember! And a man with this name is existent even.

 

[vinayd]

I remember. Felt like we couldn't sleuth it back then. Wonder if it's on the table now?

 

[layer]

Yes I doubt the deer were involved in the crime.

LOL
For starters, I'm curious if there were only prints from 1 adult and 2 girls, and if they only went one direction.

But they helped in the discovery of those sweet girls. So I hope they got to live long, blissful lives.
Thank goodness this community pulled together and searched thoroughly. Many victims are discovered months and years later and families go without the ability to lay their loved ones to rest as well as forensic evidence is destroyed by natural forces.

Beautifully stated. For most of my life I opined that I'd rather have a loved one disappear than found murdered, but I've realized how impossible both situations are. It's shocking how easy it is to make someone just disappear for good, like they only existed in our memory.
God bless the searchers

 

[girlhasnoname]

DH claims he didn't get a certain item in Discovery, NMcL says it was sent in an email. He goes to find the email to prove it, but can't find it. So, NMcL says to the judge that he can't find it but it exists. End of story.

Just like the lost interviews aren't important because he says so. I mean, I'm not saying he's wrong, but I'm also not okay with just taking the State's word for it.

Why can we cut down every word the D has ever said, even when they attach exhibits that we can't see, but ignore the State's claims without any supporting evidence at all? I know I'm overstating it, but that's the feeling I get.

I understand the anti-D sentiments, but how does that negate the problems on the State's side? I wish I had legal training so I knew what the hell was going on. I don't feel things are working entirely as they should be. I tend to wonder if there will be more contempt motions filed after the trial, only against the State (at the very least the ex parte issue, but maybe others). IDK.

The Judge did not allow that particular email into record IIRC.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Just did a skim of the contempt hearings. D is alleging that not only were searchers first to come upon the CS, but they were the first to photograph it. Hence the provenance of some photos out there is open to question. Do I have that right?

Can that be right? What kind of—OK, advertisers, I won’t say it—joins a search and takes photos like that before the cops arrive?

I don't recall specifically seeing the part where some of the searchers were taking photos at the CS. Could you point me to that section or page please?

 

[Salah11]

I have been quite busy did the prosecution reply to the defence latest claims which must of been about midweek?

 

[layer]

Just did a skim of the contempt hearings. D is alleging that not only were searchers first to come upon the CS, but they were the first to photograph it. Hence the provenance of some photos out there is open to question. Do I have that right?
Can that be right? What kind of—OK, advertisers, I won’t say it—joins a search and takes photos like that before the cops arrive?

not only were searchers first to come upon the CS, but they were the first to photograph it
WTF?
Just when you think you can't be shocked by this case, this pops up.

 

[TTF14]

I have been quite busy did the prosecution reply to the defence latest claims which must of been about midweek?

No.

 

[girlhasnoname]

It’s so bold to sit in chambers and also try to remove the judge who is trying to find you in contempt. They also blame shift to the prosecutor leaking info and want them to also be found in contempt. They really can’t focus enough to save their own tails.

What was “leaked” by prosecution was irrelevant and pale in comparison to their leaks.

Maybe it’s not odd to try to remove the judge. I will admit I’ve never read these many motions on any case I’ve followed.

No this is definitely more than beyond odd, these antics.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Just did a skim of the contempt hearings. D is alleging that not only were searchers first to come upon the CS, but they were the first to photograph it. Hence the provenance of some photos out there is open to question. Do I have that right?

Can that be right? What kind of—OK, advertisers, I won’t say it—joins a search and takes photos like that before the cops arrive?

Part I Page 74 "Some guy had taken photos of some clothing and other things" was the statement.

EBM: Added Part 1

 

[vinayd]

The bottom line is the D is focusing the blame on the state for leaking evidence. Mainly the PCAs for RL/RA and RL search warrant. They even said this is "more egregious" than their leaks. This is in the 3/25 Post Hearing Memorandum.

"Compared to the leaks of two entire probable cause affidavits which contained details of
the investigation, the disclosure of the discovery of a bullet and gun and others the thumb drive
map was insignificant."

 

[Salah11]

No.

Thanks and I am intrigued to see what next week brings as we edge ever closer to Trial.

 

[susane7]

From MS, the leaks that the D talked is pics of the girls' clothing in the water. Apparently, the pics were taken by civilians before LE arrive at the crime scene.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Thanks and I am intrigued to see what next week brings as we edge ever closer to Trial.

Oh Salah11, be careful what you wish for. I think it's going to get even crazier.

 

[vinayd]

From MS, the leaks that the D talked is pics of the girls' clothing in the water. Apparently, the pics were taken by civilians before LE arrive at the crime scene.

you are correct there was mention of photos as well! So let me rephrase. The D is concerned about leaks that happened before the Dec 2022 Gag Order. So I believe that is why they (State) objected to relevancy so many times.

The State is trying to show the D in contempt starting with the Gag order and spilling down to podcasters/youtubers.

 

[layer]

From MS, the leaks that the D talked is pics of the girls' clothing in the water. Apparently, the pics were taken by civilians before LE arrive at the crime scene.

That makes sense!
Seriously, after the initial shock and horror at the idea of civilians taking photos and videos, I thought of Zapruder.
My brain makes funny connections like that...
IOW, no authenticated evidence is bad evidence. It could give greater insight into what happened.
JMHO

 

[Salah11]

Oh Salah11, be careful what you wish for. I think it's going to get even crazier.

It’s hard to imagine it getting any crazier to be honest. I believe we are about 3 weeks away from Trial so the defense are running out of time here.

Moo

 

[TL4S]

The Judge didn't allow exhibit 3 in when he couldn't find the email. That is fair.

To be even more fair, NMcL addressed the implication that he hasn't sent all discovery in a motion from 3/17 (before contempt hearing). Not being able to find email proof on the spot is not alarming.

View attachment 498633

Exhibit 2 was admitted with no objection and also referred to the thumb map drive.
View attachment 498634

When Prosecution wanted to enter Exhibit 3 it was to show that the defense received discovery and signed for it.

View attachment 498635
View attachment 498636

So he admits he probably does have it but it was not identified for use in the contempt hearing.

Yes, thank you. I apologize for the snark of my last post. I'm looking at the broader picture of how everything has unfolded since RA's arrest (and even before), and I'm not comfortable with it. It's great so many people have seen enough to pick a side, but the deeper we get into things, the firmer I am in the middle. For me to pick a side now, either side, would mean ignoring what I see as the full picture, and I'm unwilling to do that. That's JMO, in my own perspective, not even considering guilt or innocence. Everybody loves to talk about how the D is "cherry picking," but that's exactly what I see being done by people discussing this online, including here at WS. The D, NMcL, JG, and LE have all made some questionable calls, IMO, and I hope like hell that by the end of trial, my concerns are eased by the evidence presented.

I need to just take a step back until trial...thankfully should be coming soon!

 

[Ravenmoon]

DH claims he didn't get a certain item in Discovery, NMcL says it was sent in an email. He goes to find the email to prove it, but can't find it. So, NMcL says to the judge that he can't find it but it exists. End of story.

Just like the lost interviews aren't important because he says so. I mean, I'm not saying he's wrong, but I'm also not okay with just taking the State's word for it.

Why can we cut down every word the D has ever said, even when they attach exhibits that we can't see, but ignore the State's claims without any supporting evidence at all? I know I'm overstating it, but that's the feeling I get.

I understand the anti-D sentiments, but how does that negate the problems on the State's side? I wish I had legal training so I knew what the hell was going on. I don't feel things are working entirely as they should be. I tend to wonder if there will be more contempt motions filed after the trial, only against the State (at the very least the ex parte issue, but maybe others). IDK.

It was/ is the job of LE to bring the murderer of Abby and Libby to justice.

Early in the investigation, I assume that they interviewed dozens, maybe even hundreds of people.

The Klines were looked at, the Vinlanders were looked at, and many others as well.

I know that a lot of people have settled on the group that were involved in Norse worship. I think that LE entertained the idea for a short period of time... But, the group had alibi's that checked out. They couldn't find anything that would link them to the crime.

Can we look at that group for a minute? I know that some people really want EF to be "that guy". I know that he said some things that made him potentially look guilty. But let's break that down a little.

His claims were that he "was on the bridge with the girls " . He says that he "gave Abby horns because she was annoying." He said he " spit on the girls." Never once did he say that he was the killer. He never claimed to stab or cut the girls. He never said that he witnessed his brothers place sticks on the bodies.

If he was recruited to be a part of this group, do you REALLY believe that PW and BH are going to let EF tag along and risk this man telling anyone that would listen that he and his " new brothers" went into the woods to kill 2 innocent kids? He has some severe intellectual disabilities, why would they risk him leaving evidence that would point to this group? I don't see them NOT beating the living daylights out of him once word got out that he was spilling his guts to his sisters and LE. Heck, he probably wouldn't be alive today if there was truth to what he was saying. They left him alone because they had PROOF as to their whereabouts and they knew that EF had nothing to back up his stories.

Why aren't we concerned about anyone else ( the dozens, perhaps hundreds) of other interviews? My thoughts, we aren't worried because they are NOT exculpatory.



EBM to add, the perceived bias against the Defense is because of the amount of drama and misinformation that they have spread.

LE has made way too many mistakes, for sure, but one thing is sure: there was no rush to justice, there was no need for them to fabricate anything.

I personally wish this had come to a conclusion earlier, but nothing takes away from any evidence that points to RA being the killer.
JMO