2008.06.16 The girls and the "backpacks"

[concentric]

I do agree that it was this contention over Caylee and the psychological and legal implications that surround that. I knew of a mom who abandoned her three, let's say it again, 3 children and left them with the grandma who got custody and moved away.

 

[suzet]

The reason I do not think George saw anything in the trunk prior to the 911 call is because when LE initially came to the house, an officer said when they were finishing up at the Anthony house, George came up to the officer and said something like, "I think my daughter is leaving out some information." I just don't think George's cover up started just yet. And that to me, is the last time we saw "Genuine George." I believe it was after LE left that the other stories were concocted - leaving with back packs, pin striped pants, and all that.

"Genuine George" and "911 Cindy" were last seen on July 15, never to be heard from again.

 

[Tuba]

One item that WAS disturbed, apparently by Casey: the pool ladder. It had been put away for safety reasons, after the weekend. After the June 18 shovel loan, the ladder was back poolside. This information from Cindy. Geo. knew that Casey was hiding the gas can theft and therefore, he did have reason to mistrust her even more than usual. I agree that to follow her would have been useful. I don't think he was frightened about a disappearance yet though. (Since he claims he saw Caylee on June 16).

 

[Hisimage]

Here is something I have wondered if Caylee had her own bedroom, but slept often with KC, then why would she not leave KCs room to get clothing for that day. Surely her clothes were in her own room. CA says that she heard them getting ready that morning, but wouldnt at some point you need to go get her clothing?

 

[lovesbooks]

About the shovel. The reason that she needed it, one of them said, was to get rid of some bamboo.

Now, how believable is that? She drives back to the house to get rid of the bamboo? Quite the gardener.

 

[California Dreamer]

I don't believe GA's stories about the 16th or the 24th. Watch his body language - his smile is so odd. The same smile that he had when he spoke about seeing KC in jail and she spoke for 45 minutes about Caylee. Puh-leease! My intuition kicked in high gear when I watched him that he was so not being truthful.

 

[Pedrosmom]

The only believable statements from that family, come from the 911 calls. Gone for a month, smells like a dead body...after that it was backpaddling and CYA mode. Because after the calls, they changed their story.

 

[shadow of my mind]

Transcript of the interview
FOX NEWS Greta Van Susteren interview with GA & CA August 5 2008
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,398490,00.html

excerpts from this interview

LAST TIME GA & CA SAW CAYLEE
CINDY ANTHONY: No, it's June 15, Father's Day, which was mistaken early on because, you know, I never even thought about what day Father's Day was. I just -- I knew it was a Sunday in June I had taken that video, and I knew that was the last day that I physically saw her, even though I knew where she was sleeping the next morning. My husband actually saw Caylee and Casey leave on the 16th of June.

GEORGE ANTHONY: Oh, specifically. I remember it was 10 minutes to 1:00 on Monday the 16th.
VAN SUSTEREN: So in the middle of the afternoon or early afternoon.

GAS CANS
VAN SUSTEREN: And gas cans were -- how many gas cans?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Two, the 2-and-a-half-gallon and one about a gallon- and-a-quarter, something like that.
VAN SUSTEREN: Now, you made the report on June 24, though. That's when you noticed it. Do you remember when you last were in there, so you have some sort of window of when that could have happened?
GEORGE ANTHONY: It could have been Sunday. I believe I was in there Sunday. I don't believe I was in there the day before that, like, on the 23rd. I'm almost positive it's a Sunday.
VAN SUSTEREN: So the Sunday the 23rd, you might have been in there?
CINDY ANTHONY: Well, Sunday would have been the 22nd.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So as best you can tell, it happened between the 22nd and the 24th. someone broke in there.

GA AND OPENING THE CAR TRUNK TO FIND GAS CANS
GEORGE ANTHONY: Uh-huh.
That's when I saw my daughter. I was getting ready to go to work, and the garage door goes open and my daughter comes in. This is about 2:25, 2:30 in the afternoon on the 24th. As she comes in the house, and I said, Hey, how're you doing? And she says, Fine, Dad. I says, Well, what's going on? And she says, Oh, I'm just stopping home for about 10 minutes, get some clothes. I go to go back to work. Where's Caylee? She's with Zanny. And I said, OK, when are you guys coming home? She says, Oh, we'll be back home maybe late tonight or the next day.
I said, OK. Have you been talking to Mom? Oh, yes, I talk to Mom every day. I said, I know, but did you talk to Mom today? She sort of hesitated for a moment and she says, Yes. And she says, Oh, by the way, it's a shame what happened in the shed. And I said...
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, because (INAUDIBLE)
GEORGE ANTHONY: And I said, Really? She says, yes. I said, Interesting. And I just said, Hey, by the way, I said, I'm getting ready to rotate your mom's tires on her car. There's a little metal wedge that fits underneath your tires so your car doesn't rock back and forth. And I said, Well, I'd like to have it, so in case you're not here over the weekend, I'd like to be able to do it.
She was hesitant about letting me get in the car. And I said, Well, listen, I got an extra key. I'll just go get it. Well, she was adamant about -- about that.
VAN SUSTEREN: What, not letting you into the car?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes, didn't want me to get into the car to get the stuff out. Dad, I'll get it for you. Dad, I'll get it out. I said, It's no problem. I know where it's at. I'll get it, get it out and be done with it.
So as we're walking out through the garage, she's still telling me, Dad, I'll get it. Give me a minute, I'll get it. I said, Casey, I'm capable of reaching inside your car, and I got it. So -- and she opened up the trunk of the car...
CINDY ANTHONY: The gas cans were there.
GEORGE ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) The gas cans there. She's the one that took the gas cans.


aricle about fight on 6.15 at the A's home
On Father's Day, June 15, the family took Caylee to visit her great-grandfather at an assisted living facility
"There was some sort of huge argument Father's Day weekend," said Kathi Belich, a reporter for WFTV. "I am told neighbors heard yelling. There was some sort of big fight."
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Story?id=5727546&page=2

IMO I think GA & CA are avoiding speaking about any fight that they had if they actually had one [I have not been abel to find anything except this one articule reporting that a neighbor said that there was a big fight on night of 6.15. No name ever mentioned.]and the fact that Casey is not spending time at home becasue it would give LE a motive for Casey killing Caylee. Then add the 'what with the neighbors think snydrome' if it was found out that this is not exactly the Cleaver Family

The Shovel question:
So far other than comments by Mark F. saying the shovel was borrowed on the 6.18 nothing in the documents show any solid date. It is a range of dates that the nieghbor Brian B. gave LE. [It would be nice if we knew that Mark F. was given that date by LE so we knew it was accurate or did Mark F. state that date jbecasue it just happens to fit within a timeline that is a working theory.]


So, if you remove the big fight from the picture then the A's not saying anything about it makes more sense. The shovel date is a question mark that fits in somewhere just not sure exactly where and there is the police report about the gas cans on record.

This big fight happening is something that really need to be claified. Does anyone know or has found something more solid about it than just a reporter making a comment about an unnamed neighbor. There is nothing in the documents [at least the ones released] about any big family fight.

The fight happening or not could really change the dynamics of what was going on in the house.
With a big fight in the picture it the statements about Casey & Caylee leaving on the 16th at 12:50PM and Cindy's claim she only heard them in the AM of the same day and why did not GA say it was just a normal like any other day thing. Plus GA seing Casey on 6.24 and then CA saying she hadn't seen them for a month. [Maybe GA did not tell CA about seeing Casey and the fact that he now knew that Casey was responsible for stealing the gas cans until after the Fit hit the shan]
Without a big fight in the picture what has been said on interviews and statements could be taken at face vaule. The A's were not concerned about the wereabouts of Caylee becasue she was with Casey. They did not go into panic mode until they received notice that the car had been towed and that combined with the 'feeling' that Casey was avoiding the A's request to see Caylee. If they had been pushing Casey to start being more repsonsible and Casey was being a brat and playing the 'I'll show you See how you like it not having me around becasue you don't get Caylee either and you will be begging me to not get my own place ' routine.

IMO the fight thing can really be important.

 

[Marina2]

In this interview, (@2:38 min.) George states "My wife had daily contact with our daughter either through voice mails, text messages, uh, even direct contact. Every once in awhile, I talked to my daughter"

I find it interesting that he states that Cindy had "direct contact" with Casey and states that "every once in awhile, I talked to my daughter" I have never heard Cindy say that she had seen Casey during this month. Also, he said that he talked to his daughter every once in awhile but doesn't say that he had direct contact. Now, the story is that he had direct contact ( alleged 24th gas can visit) and Cindy only communicated via phone. To me, this is more indication that he never saw Casey on that day. And why would he state that Cindy had direct contact?

Also, at 1:16 he speaks of "...only three of us right now on the outside trying to put everything together; it's a triangle, my son, my wife and I and we're trying to stay focused on what's in that center." He goes on to talk about how the triangle opens up a "teeny bit" and they "close it up and stay focused on what we have, our beliefs, our thoughts, our information that we have." "Gotta have that game plan every single day". When he speaks of "the outside", he is referring to Casey in jail. Listen to this part...I think he is out and out talking about the cover up between the three of them under the guise of keeping hope that Caylee will be found. Why say "only three of us"? There are many people with hope for Caylee, trying to put things together.

All in all, I found it a very interesting and telling interview to revisit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgsfWYjCn9I

 

[shadow of my mind]

In this interview, (@2:38 min.) George states "My wife had daily contact with our daughter either through voice mails, text messages, uh, even direct contact. Every once in awhile, I talked to my daughter"

I find it interesting that he states that Cindy had "direct contact" with Casey and states that "every once in awhile, I talked to my daughter" I have never heard Cindy say that she had seen Casey during this month. Also, he said that he talked to his daughter every once in awhile but doesn't say that he had direct contact. Now, the story is that he had direct contact ( alleged 24th gas can visit) and Cindy only communicated via phone. To me, this is more indication that he never saw Casey on that day. And why would he state that Cindy had direct contact?

Also, at 1:16 he speaks of "...only three of us right now on the outside trying to put everything together; it's a triangle, my son, my wife and I and we're trying to stay focused on what's in that center." He goes on to talk about how the triangle opens up a "teeny bit" and they "close it up and stay focused on what we have, our beliefs, our thoughts, our information that we have." "Gotta have that game plan every single day". When he speaks of "the outside", he is referring to Casey in jail. Listen to this part...I think he is out and out talking about the cover up between the three of them under the guise of keeping hope that Caylee will be found. Why say "only three of us"? There are many people with hope for Caylee, trying to put things together.

All in all, I found it a very interesting and telling interview to revisit.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgsfWYjCn9I

I listened to the interview. I did not come away with the same feeling.

GA said “It’s like a triangle. There is only three people right now, even though I have my daughter and grand daughter, There is only three of us on the outside. My son, my wife and I”.

He is speaking about his core family, there was 5 and now it is 3. The 3 who are left in the family that are trying to put the pieces of what happen together so they can find Caylee. He admits that a lot of what Casey has told them is a lie but they are trying to figure out the little bits of truth in her story that would lead them to Caylee.

Is that not exactly the same thing that most people on this forum are doing.

The man is explaining that he can not, will not believe that Caylee is dead. The reporter asked him that several times and he bascialy said the same thing in differnt ways. Why would one expect that he would except that Caylee was dead.
There are people who are MIA from WWII that the families have never gave up hope that their loved one did not die and would someday be found or has not been able to come home and has made a life for themselves where ever they ended up. The belive this despite all of the reports that say otherwise. Without the body or the bones they will not ever give up that hope. I don't think that someone who has a family member missing and has not given up hope shoud be considered covering up something just becasue they want and need to believe they are not dead. I think that response is quite natural, espicially when it has not even been 3 months yet.


This is my just opinion of this interview and I am not attempting to disparage your opinion.

 

[Marina2]

Thanks for your response, Shadow. I agree that he is talking of keeping hope and trying to fit the pieces together to find Caylee but, the part that makes me question is where he states that the "triangle opens up a teeny bit and we close it". It doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of it it. More like a plan to keep their stories straight, stick together, and not get distracted. The whole triangle thing is a strange way to put it but not if one were speaking of a group that has vowed to stick together, almost as if it were them against the world.

ETA: I am a major conspiracy theorist...always have been. Probably colors my view more than it should but at times it comes in handy.
My main point, the triangle thing was an after thought, was when he stated that Cindy had direct contact with Casey that month but stated that he talked to her every once in awhile. Completely contradicts what we have heard since then.

 

[BeanE]

1. George said he saw Caylee and Casey at 12:50 PM. It's in the interview with Greta.

What George didn't do is elaborate on the hours before 12:50 PM regarding Caylee waking up, having breakfast, having lunch, playing with the dogs. OR perhaps saying" Casey came home at this time because she didn't sleep home the night of June 15th.

2. The Anthony's didn't reference the fight on June 15th that we know of, but it might be in the interview with LE.

3. Who stated Casey was going on vacation on June 16th?

This is what I saw in the intervew with Greta also. George also said that Casey said she would be working late that night.

I haven't seen anything about vacation. I'd be interested in reading it/looking at video.

Thank you.

 

[imnotheonlyone]

She not only "nudged" him, she finished his sentence!

Something like this:

GEORGE: I opened the trunk and . . .
CINDY: . . . there were the gas cans.

This has bothered me since I first saw the interview.

Me too! It was like, "whooolaaa .... there were the gas cans!!" - after George had lied about a neighbor stealing them!!!!!

 

[Marina2]

Snipped

3. Who stated Casey was going on vacation on June 16th?

In the very first interviews that Cindy gave to the media she states that Casey was going to go on a trip somewhere to bond with Caylee and some kind of trip she was making related to work. I've been looking for some of these first interviews to hear what her first story was and can't find them. When I read Cindy's July 3rd myspace post I remember thinking that it didn't match with what she first stated happened, re: Casey leaving. I'm thinking it may be in her bond hearing testimony too.

 

[SusieClue]

Me too! It was like, "whooolaaa .... there were the gas cans!!" - after George had lied about a neighbor stealing them!!!!!

Even more telling to me, was Cindy's big SMILE while they jointly said about the gas cans. It was a nervous smile and inappropriate to the subject. BIG RED FLAG.

 

[Annbelle]

He said it was the 24th, and she said she said she was "just stopping in to get some clothes, I've gotta go back to work." He asked where's Caylee and she stated, "With Zani". He said he asked "When are you guys coming back home?" and she said "We will either be home late tonight or early the next day". So he then says "Ok, have you been talking to mom" and she said "I talk to mom everyday" and he said "I know but did you talk to mom today?" and he said she sort of hesitated and then said "yeah" and THEN she said "Oh by the way, it's a shame what happened in the shed", and right there CINDY interjects, "Yeah, cause I had called her and talked to her about it"[/QUOTE]
"It's not my granddaughter's body in my granddaughter's car. Get your facts straight!"
HEY GA- YOU get your facts straight
NONE OF THIS MAKES ANY SENSE!!!!!!!!
The big Argument occured on the JUNE 16th(?).After CinA saw a counselor.(no exact date) The argument was about throwing KC out and telling her to get a job and take better care of Caylee. Maybe involving (child) services, (per CinA in her phone call)
June 24 according to GA:
If they knew she didnt have a job(per the argument on June 16) why would she have to go back to work?
Since she had no job why would she be home later that night or early in the morning with Caylee?
Did they think she "worked" late and Caylee was with the nanny? (The non existent nanny no one ever met, saw, or spoke to?)

Where would she go with Caylee overnight? Dont know if the A's just figured their daughter was out and left Caylee with (the non existent nanny or someone who did exist.) Did she ever have a real babysitter or someone who was watching Caylee? Did she just take her with her at night?
GA and CinA never asked why KC would need a change of clothes?
Where did they think she slept?
They knew she had no job.

Per GA, kc's words..."It's a shame what happened in the shed."(why would anyone say that? it's a shame...)
CinA interjecting "Yeah cause I called her and talked to her about it" (more malarky)

This may be a very small thing to some, but to me this another red flag.
We know now there was no nanny.
But the family accepted there was a nanny even though:
the people in this family never met the nanny.
they never asked for a contact number for a nanny.
they never asked where the nanny lived or for a number to reach someone about the nanny.
They never asked questions about this nanny and never had any reason to be curious about a nanny?
Who paid the nanny since kc had no job?
Since kc had no job why did she need a nanny?
Caylee supposedly had a nanny for a year and a half, but none of them have ever questioned their daughter about the person taking care of their granddaughter?
I would without a doubt have had information about a nanny or babysitter who was responsible for my granddchild for a year and a half.
Every parent/guardian of a child who attends school fills out an emergency card. The A's filled them out for their kids. All schools require them. One of their kids is 25, the other is 22. These were required far back as long as I can remember--I'm well past 40.
It's called contact information.
They did not have the sense to ask for basic information for the person taking care of their granddaughter?

Now that I finished this thread is probably closed.

 

[addyM3]

he said he saw them at 12:50.
Casey said she droppped the baby off between 9 and 1 on 6/9 though.

I think CMA had her the date of June 9th mixed up, like CA, because she mentioned in her statement that Caylee had gone with CA to to Mt. Dora to visit GP.
On June 15, a neighbor heard (speculatory?? not sure if it is in the docs) an argument, and now we have alleged information that CA wanted to get custody of Caylee, in an attempt to get CMA to take responsibility for her life and her daughter’s. IMO, this is most likely somewhat accurate, and makes sense. I believe the next day (16th) is when CMA and Caylee left, with the intention of not returning. On June 24, CMA writes to Troy on MySpace that she there is DRAMMA and she hasn't even been there for the last 9 days. That brings us back to the 16th. I believe it is highly possible that Casey decided she needed to get Caylee away from CA.
I can relate because I lived with my mother and step-father at the same age as CMA and had my 2 year old son (now 15). It was one of the most frustrating and difficult times of my life. However, I took matters into my own hands by getting the best job I could, and moved to a studio apartment. It was tough, but I'll tell you that I was happier, even though I love my mother very much, and realize she had the best of intentions at heart for me and for my son, which like CA, she adored! Finally, I could be a parent to my son, and be responsible without my mother ,treating us like she was both of our mom’s, and my son was my baby brother. Previously, I felt helpless when it came to being a parent. Perhaps, it's why I still cling to hope, and I know a lot of you will not agree with me, but I do not think that CMA is a bad person. If something did happen to Caylee, I do not believe it would be on purpose. I am sure that you other mom’s can sit back and say that the day you have that child, you are a different person. You are changed for life, and are totally in love with this sweet, innocent baby! I saw this in the videos of Caylee and Casey and in the pictures as well. CMA said to LA one of the jail calls that there is a special bond between a mom and her daughter.
This part about wanting to give Caylee up for adoption originally, is not an uncommon thing to think about when you are at that age! She may have considered it for a short time, but ultimately it was not her mother’s decision, but her own. I like CA, and feel for their grief, but I can see them being controlling because they want her to do well and make the right choices in life. Some of us don’t listen and learn the hard way! However, I also look at the source (KTC) as not being a reliable source for this speculation.

CMA was right about one thing.... Finding Caylee IS ALL that MATTERS RIGHT NOW!!

 

[addyM3]

GA said “It’s like a triangle. There is only three people right now, even though I have my daughter and grand daughter, There is only three of us on the outside. My son, my wife and I”.

He is speaking about his core family, there was 5 and now it is 3. The 3 who are left in the family that are trying to put the pieces of what happen together so they can find Caylee. He admits that a lot of what Casey has told them is a lie but they are trying to figure out the little bits of truth in her story that would lead them to Caylee.

Just to add to your post, I think he means the triangle of the 3 you mentioned, but he adds focusing on 'what's in the center of it.' _ I took to mean that Casey and Caylee are in the center. Make sense? JMO.

 

[Mom of Five]

Here is where it all goes SOUTH in my mind...The stories never match up...the details are fluid and moving all the time...

George says that he saw Caylee and Casey sometime between 9 am and approx. 1 pm leaving that day just like "any other day". They both had on their backpacks.

Later we are told that they were "going on vacation"...

Someone is telling whole strings of lies, you begin to see a pattern of inconsistencies in the midst of their stories, and I think we can all agree that there is a pattern of that very thing in this whole charade...

1. IF it was a day like any other day, then why can he not pin the time down a little closer than sometime between 9 and 1? THAT is a BIG block of time, and you would think if it was a "day like any other day" then he would KNOW the schedule a little better. ( My mistake he actually DID pin it down to 12:50-sorry for the mix-up)

2. The A family have not discussed the HUGE fight that happened at THEIR HOUSE on June 15th that has been reported to LE. They have made no reference to it whatsoever. WHY?

3. Well, was she going to work "like any other day" or was she going on "vacation"? It cannot be both of these at once.

4. If she was "going on vacation" would she and Caylee not have needed a bit more than would fit in the backpacks that they carried for "everyday". Would they not have needed to pack and where were their suitcases? Were many of Caylee's clothes missing from the home? Did Casey pack in secret and stash the bags in the trunk so they would not know she was leaving with Caylee?

Here is what I personally think happened. I think there was a HUGE fight at the Anthony home and Casey was told that she would need to find her own place and that they were going to try to get custody of Caylee...I think Casey wanted to "make them pay" for what they were doing to her, because in her mind all they cared about was Caylee, and she felt jealousy over her own daughter and she never even wanted to KEEP the baby-much less have her take HER place in the hearts of her own parents...I think the fight that is NOT being discussed is the detail that NEEDS to be picked apart piece by piece.

Even a two or three day "vacation" will not fit in 2 backpacks-especially for 2 girls...So THIS is the lie that they need to break down to the core of it, because it is right here where they are going to find the truth...imo-

George lies just like Casey. What I mean by that is as soon as way too many details are brought into the conversation a lie is being told. I watched that interview when GA said that it was 12:50 because he was watching his show. It sounded ridiculous, almost like he couldn't remember the show's name. Also remember the comment to the tow yard guy about how they had found their daughter but the gdaughter was still missing. We're supposed to believe that they hadn't spoken to Casey yet.I am beginning to wonder if George was aware of what was going on the whole time.`I'm not convinced of it but I think iyt's possible. She is Daddy's girl and Mommy is extremely emotional so it's possible that Casey used GA as a go between in order to smooth things over with CA. Casey could have gone to GA at some point and said I need help this is what happened and Mom's going to die if I tell her this. I really don't think Cindy knew anything when she made the 911 calls. She wouldn't have said the things she said if she knew anything, but GA wasn't involved in that part. Lee distinctly said that the car was in the garage but in another report LE said they picked it up in the driveway. I have to wonder if GA tried to clean it up, we already know that CA washed those things, what we don't know is whether George brought them in and told her to wash them. Previously I didn't think GA or CA were involved just that they were bad parents, now I'm not so sure.

 

[Inana]

This is the first I've heard about the backpack and doll being found in the car.
My understanding was that the inside contained Casey's shoe's, boots, gray slacks and Caylee's car seat.
The trunk had a trash bag in it.