Tape on Jon Benets mouth - New info

[Camper]

This week while watching court TV, Beth Karras and another lady (a forensics expert) on split screen were being asked questions about the Caylee case, by the CTV moderator woman.

The 'lady' sorry I do not remember her name. Other lady was president of a prestigious sounding forensics school, she herself had many many years of forensics experience.

A question was asked of her on whether 'fingerprints' from the Caylee tape could be obtained from the tape used both on sealing the bag and the tape that encompasses Caylee's hair and her skull.

The 'forensics lady' said Yes, she referenced a case that was dormant until 2002, when NEW techniques for recovering fingerprints enabled closure of the olde case.

I am wondering about the Jon Benet tape. Does anyone remember IF we ever saw a picture of 'that' piece of tape?

I am thinking even though JR removed it from Jon Benets mouth and corrupted print evidence. I am thinking that some of the prints would be more conclusive, such as THE prints showing the 'prints' of the person that actually ripped the tape from the original roll of tape. ACTUALLY IF BOulder still has the roll of duct tape from the Ramsey home in evidence.

When you tear the tape from the roll YOUR Prints should be on the sticky side of the remaining tape on the roll.

When you want a piece of tape from a roll of duct tape you must first pick at it and raise the tape and rip it with your hands, leaving prints on the tape that continues staying on the old roll.

As I understood the 'forensics' lady those prints can be recovered with the new technology.

Dave or anyone, DO we have a picture of the piece of tape that was ON Jon Benets mouth?

IF IF IF JR removed the tape HE may have put prints all over the tape 'purposefully to throw off 'detection' IF that is the case then it would or should be obvious that he did IT on purpose.

An innocent father would merely remove it, am I right in thinking this? Just take it by the edge and carefully, quickly remove it!

I am waiting patiently to see what the Caylee fingerprints show on the trash bag tape and the head encircling tape. Those prints should take the perpetrator to trial and give them a lifetime in the :behindbar.

.

 

[Camper]

This week while watching court TV, Beth Karras and another lady (a forensics expert) on split screen were being asked questions about the Caylee case, by the CTV moderator woman.

The 'lady' sorry I do not remember her name. Other lady was president of a prestigious sounding forensics school, she herself had many many years of forensics experience.

A question was asked of her on whether 'fingerprints' from the Caylee tape could be obtained from the tape used both on sealing the bag and the tape that encompasses Caylee's hair and her skull.

The 'forensics lady' said Yes, she referenced a case that was dormant until 2002, when NEW techniques for recovering fingerprints enabled closure of the olde case.

I am wondering about the Jon Benet tape. Does anyone remember IF we ever saw a picture of 'that' piece of tape?

I am thinking even though JR removed it from Jon Benets mouth and corrupted print evidence. I am thinking that some of the prints would be more conclusive, such as THE prints showing the 'prints' of the person that actually ripped the tape from the original roll of tape. ACTUALLY IF BOulder still has the roll of duct tape from the Ramsey home in evidence.

When you tear the tape from the roll YOUR Prints should be on the sticky side of the remaining tape on the roll.

When you want a piece of tape from a roll of duct tape you must first pick at it and raise the tape and rip it with your hands, leaving prints on the tape that continues staying on the old roll.

As I understood the 'forensics' lady those prints can be recovered with the new technology.

Dave or anyone, DO we have a picture of the piece of tape that was ON Jon Benets mouth?

IF IF IF JR removed the tape HE may have put prints all over the tape 'purposefully to throw off 'detection' IF that is the case then it would or should be obvious that he did IT on purpose.

An innocent father would merely remove it, am I right in thinking this? Just take it by the edge and carefully, quickly remove it!

I am waiting patiently to see what the Caylee fingerprints show on the trash bag tape and the head encircling tape. Those prints should take the perpetrator to trial and give them a lifetime in the :behindbar.

.

Addition to my original post to make more clear. When JR removed the tape from Jon Benet, even IF IF he corrupted the tape by overhandling, perfect and ORIGINAL prints on the back side of the tape should reveal some solid evidence. I can only hope.

.

 

[JMO8778]

..yes,but it would truly be a miracle if Lacy agreed to have it tested!

 

[DeeDee249]

Here's a link to the photo of the white blanket in situ on the floor of the wineceller. Laying on the blanket is the piece of tape- gray sticky side up (the reverse was black).

http://www.acandyrose.com/149blanket.jpg

 

[Camper]

Here's a link to the photo of the white blanket in situ on the floor of the wineceller. Laying on the blanket is the piece of tape- gray sticky side up (the reverse was black).

http://www.acandyrose.com/149blanket.jpg[/quote]



--->>>Thank you DeeDee249. Couple of observations on my part,

1. The left or outer side of the piece of tape appears to have ragged edges, which might or might not piece together with the found roll of tape. Good grief after so many years I do seem to remember that 'a' roll of that type of tape was found, am I right??

I remember that some 'duct/duck' tape was used on the back of some of Patsy's framed art work.

2. The picture seems to look 'as IF' it is a rather long piece of tape. NOT as I have always 'thought' of as just a rather smaller piece over her mouth. There are some shadows from the blanket in the picture. It did seem to me 'as IF' there was MORE length of the tape under the second shadow down lower, and nothing in the fold of the blanket that would have given the extra gray 'shadow?' length of the tape under that blacker shadow, that could be misconstrued as 'a' blanket shadow. That was a big old piece of tape!!!!

I am also guessing that to rip that big of a piece of tape from the roll there would have been some problem with it sticking to the persons clothes who was in the act of ripping it from the roll, such as fibers from their own clothing on the sticky side, OR more prints in the body of the tapes sticky side, while putting the roll of tape down 'somewhere'.

3. IF IF the tape was as 'long' as the picture seems to indicate, then possibly it should still contain some of Jon Benets hair on the tape toward the edges where the tape overlapped her tiny face.

Wonder how that tape has been preserved and kept in evidence? How does LE keep a sticky piece of tape in evidence, without corrupting it for evidence use much later?

.

 

[DeeDee249]

Here's a link to the photo of the white blanket in situ on the floor of the wineceller. Laying on the blanket is the piece of tape- gray sticky side up (the reverse was black).

http://www.acandyrose.com/149blanket.jpg[/quote]



--->>>Thank you DeeDee249. Couple of observations on my part,

1. The left or outer side of the piece of tape appears to have ragged edges, which might or might not piece together with the found roll of tape. Good grief after so many years I do seem to remember that 'a' roll of that type of tape was found, am I right??

I remember that some 'duct/duck' tape was used on the back of some of Patsy's framed art work.

2. The picture seems to look 'as IF' it is a rather long piece of tape. NOT as I have always 'thought' of as just a rather smaller piece over her mouth. There are some shadows from the blanket in the picture. It did seem to me 'as IF' there was MORE length of the tape under the second shadow down lower, and nothing in the fold of the blanket that would have given the extra gray 'shadow?' length of the tape under that blacker shadow, that could be misconstrued as 'a' blanket shadow. That was a big old piece of tape!!!!

I am also guessing that to rip that big of a piece of tape from the roll there would have been some problem with it sticking to the persons clothes who was in the act of ripping it from the roll, such as fibers from their own clothing on the sticky side, OR more prints in the body of the tapes sticky side, while putting the roll of tape down 'somewhere'.

3. IF IF the tape was as 'long' as the picture seems to indicate, then possibly it should still contain some of Jon Benets hair on the tape toward the edges where the tape overlapped her tiny face.

Wonder how that tape has been preserved and kept in evidence? How does LE keep a sticky piece of tape in evidence, without corrupting it for evidence use much later?

.

Camper, no roll of tape was ever found. PR may have used that same type of tape on her paintings. The cord may have been used also, to make a sling. The watercolor/unframed canvas are rolled up to make a tube, taped closed, and then a long length of cord is looped through the tube and tied, making a sling. If you can picture the way a quiver of arrows is slung over a shoulder, that's the general idea. Keep in mind that the receipt from McGuckin's Hardware, from earlier in December, showed purchased that matched exactly in the price and department of both the cord and tape; McGuckins sold exactly the same kind of cord and tape as was found on JBR. Cord and a roll of tape are small items. I am sure we can all imagine how they were gotten out of the house. Police really never did seal the entire house, only JBR's room in the beginning, and the Rs were never searched before they left.
The tape doesn't seem overly long to me. Actually, the length of tape seems just the right size to cover a mouth.
There were fibers from PR's jacket on the sticky side of the tape. The same jacket she wore to the White's that day, and the same jacket she was wearing when police arrived the following morning.
We'll never know how well (or even IF) that tape has been preserved. Obviously the DA's office- no matter WHO is in charge- has no desire to ever probe any of the evidence too deeply, especially in view of the fact that the Rs have now been "exonerated".

 

[Camper]

Thank you DeeDee249, I do remember the connection with McGuckin Hardware and the two purchases of tape and cord. IF anyone reading ever visits Boulder, don't miss McGuckins, it is the Disney World of Hardware stores. Can you spell ENORMOUS, registers at both ends of the store.

Some discussion happened here on the forum right after WE knew about the tape on JonBenets mouth. LE plowed the tape topic as far as they could go with it at that time. Same type tape was used on the sling storage of PR's paintings. PLUS the set of golf clubs that JR asked aunt Pam to wheel out of the Crime Scene. One can certainly speculate about why he would need the clubs so quickly in the dead of winter, while not allowed to stay in the home during the LE crime scene search for 'evidence'.

I will be watching most closely the Caylee A. case and what happens with any recovery of prints from the bag that enclosed this poor baby.

Here is a link for information on the NEW DA scheduled to take office in January 2009. He ran unnoposed, since ML had worn out her allowed time to occupy that office, two terms.

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2008/oct/09/2008-candidate-profile-stan-garnett-democrat/

This question was posed to Mr. Stan Garnett. Go to the link for his response.

"For better or worse, the JonBenet Ramsey murder case hangs over the District Attorney's Office like a black cloud. What do you plan to do with the unsolved Ramsey murder? How will you approach future developments in the case?"

.

 

[Camper]

A Law Enforcement officer yesterday told me something that BLEW my mind!

The LE officer was my deputy sergeant son. We ended our conversation by him saying HE now knows what he is getting me for Christmas.

So, IF he is able to contact 'Santa', I should have a copy of the 'Colorado Revised Statutes' book soon.

When I see the topic with my own eyes I will post the statute, by number and date.

IF he is correct, WE have been sold a pile of beans about who could not be prosecuted for Jon Benets murder.

I wish to provide totally accurate and legal information, which at this time has only been provided to me verbally. My mind is wondering at this point where 'the' wrong information that has been present, and discussed, on the forum for nearly 12 years now came from?

Recent TV programming has covered men being prosecuted and convicted for murders that happened 30 years ago. Solving now being aided by forensic techiques that were not available until more recent times.

Jon Benet is another tiny child that should not have had her life ended with a cracked skull, choking device around her tiny neck, and duct taped mouth.

.

 

[DeeDee249]

There is no statute of limitations on murder. In this case, those "limitations" were placed by a corrupt and inept DA's office bent on clearing people who should remain suspects. This "clearing" really has no legal "teeth". though. If evidence was found that conclusively linked the Rs to the killing, they can be charged no matter what Lacy had declared. The thing is, you'd never get a Boulder DA to allow that evidence to be obtained or brought forward if they could prevent it. No matter how much time elapsed, if the killer was found, the killer can be charged. The trick in Boulder, is that the DA can't or won't explore all venues to find the killer and has a vested interest in closing the book on this case ASAP. There WAS misconduct there, and back-room wheelings and dealings, some of which might be prosecutable in their own right.
The only other rule is that of double jeopardy, which only kicks in if there has been a trial at which the real killer has been acquitted, (such as OJ). I believe that if there is NEW evidence, a new trial can be ordered, but I am not certain about that. It is possible that after a trial and acquittal, that even if someone admits to the murder they can't be tried again.

 

[Camper]

I would pretty much concur with your facts as stated in your post DeeDee249. My line of thought was on an entirely different railroad track however.

Fill me in on whether another Grand Jury can or could be called on the same case, given NEW evidence, would that be possible?

IF IF it were possible it would be a great act of faith to believe that it might be handled in a more responsible way than was the first. Given that fine thought, perhaps with a grain of salt that might result in some great testimony IF the right people would speak on what they may have known in 1996.

Just having spurts of honesty here and hope for a tiny dead child.

Retired District Attorney Hunter certainly has been absent from public radar in the ensuing years.

.

 

[DeeDee249]

I would pretty much concur with your facts as stated in your post DeeDee249. My line of thought was on an entirely different railroad track however.

Fill me in on whether another Grand Jury can or could be called on the same case, given NEW evidence, would that be possible?

IF IF it were possible it would be a great act of faith to believe that it might be handled in a more responsible way than was the first. Given that fine thought, perhaps with a grain of salt that might result in some great testimony IF the right people would speak on what they may have known in 1996.

Just having spurts of honesty here and hope for a tiny dead child.

Retired District Attorney Hunter certainly has been absent from public radar in the ensuing years.

.

I am sure Hunter is relieved to be out of the public eye. He will always be known as the DA who stymied one of the country's most well-known murder cases.
This murder case remains open. Until solved, ALL murder cases are officially open. Sadly, that doesn't mean that the DAs involved will continue to work on the case. In this case, it would have to be something REALLY incriminating for the case to be active again, and even if that happened, if it implicated the Rs, I think it'd be squashed.

 

[SeekingJana]

I would pretty much concur with your facts as stated in your post DeeDee249. My line of thought was on an entirely different railroad track however.

Fill me in on whether another Grand Jury can or could be called on the same case, given NEW evidence, would that be possible?

IF IF it were possible it would be a great act of faith to believe that it might be handled in a more responsible way than was the first. Given that fine thought, perhaps with a grain of salt that might result in some great testimony IF the right people would speak on what they may have known in 1996.

Just having spurts of honesty here and hope for a tiny dead child.

Retired District Attorney Hunter certainly has been absent from public radar in the ensuing years.

.

Camper,
Are you subscribing to the BDI theory? I can't think of another reason why a book of Colorado law would be helpful in this case.

 

[Tadpole12]

Hi Camper.

Yes. Stan Garnett's response is discouraging:

The JonBenet Ramsey case is neither more, nor less, important than any other unsolved homicide. I will work closely with Boulder police to evaluate any new evidence that is developed to determine if charges can be filed. However, it is important not to let a case like the Ramsey homicide detract attention or resources from other important matters in the office.-SG



Huh? "new evidence that is developed"?,
new evidence limited to a hit on CODIS or a confession?
Gee, SG may be waiting with the rest for ever?

 

[Camper]

Merry Christmas.

I did get the 'book' yesterday. The print is very fine, and it is the 2006/2007 edition. NO changes in that book and the 2008 copy concerning the section that interests me the most.

There is an old saying that goes something like this, -> the 'mills of the Gods grind exceedingly slow and exceedingly fine.

Time marches on.

Subscription is too ecompassing. I do know that it is difficult and impossible to nail jello to a wall unless it is old and hardm and need a larger nail to do it.

As far as developing 'new evidence'. I do believe that there are a few people who have important knowledge in this case that kept their silence, or that were silenced for one reason or another.

Then as a dancing side show there is always Fleet White, who tried so HARD to bring forth 'more truth', to no avail. I am convinced that he 'knows stuff'.

My theory was sent to the 'people' who had continuing ability to do more in depth 'checking'.

Perhaps I have been chucked into the pile of 'nut' cases, along with JR's 'beer can collector category' of sleluths.

I cannot 'wait' until I hear about what fingerprints will have been ID'd from the great lengths of duct tape, in the Caylee A. case. It was stated in interviews from forensics experts on CTV that dna could most likely be recovered from the ridges in the sticky side of the tape as well.

To the Boulder PD, I say keep a close eye on the piece of duct tape from Jon Benet case.

.

 

[SeekingJana]

As far as Fleet White is concerned- remember that he stated early on that he picked up the tape, therefore contaminating it with his fingerprints also. He might have information as to whether the tape was stuck to JonBenet's face or not ( Most of us have believed it was staging, not stuck).

 

[DeeDee249]

As far as Fleet White is concerned- remember that he stated early on that he picked up the tape, therefore contaminating it with his fingerprints also. He might have information as to whether the tape was stuck to JonBenet's face or not ( Most of us have believed it was staging, not stuck).

I have often wondered exactly what FW saw as he followed JR around in the basement that day. Not just about the tape, but JR claimed to have untied her wrists, claiming they were tightly tied (which the autopsy proved were NOT tied tightly), and also JR mentioned her legs were bound together also (I believe he said they were taped). But rigor would have kept her legs in the bound position even if the bindings were removed- no other tape was found, nor was any other cord. For these other things to occur- the untying of her wrist and legs, they'd have had to be in that room significantly longer than they were. FW must know the truth about how she was found and what JR did when he found her- he was right behind him. Maybe that's part of the reason for the arguments between the two.

 

[JMO8778]

Oh yea,JR tried to continually discredit FW,even trying to make him sound like a vagabond or something in his book,when he said things like "FW never worked a regular job the whole time I knew him" etc....well,he didn't know him all his life,and he failed to mention he didn't need to work anyway.
He must have personal interest in trying to bring him down.For sure, I suspect he knows more than he can say right now.

 

[JMO8778]

Oh yea,JR tried to continually discredit FW,even trying to make him sound like a vagabond or something in his book,when he said things like "FW never worked a regular job the whole time I knew him" etc....well,he didn't know him all his life,and he failed to mention he didn't need to work anyway.
He must have personal interest in trying to bring him down.For sure, I suspect he knows more than he can say right now.

ETA: didn't DP pull a gun on FW when they were in Atlanta? Seems JR forgets to mention that li'i tidbit of info quite often.

 

[RiverRat]

Oh yea,JR tried to continually discredit FW,even trying to make him sound like a vagabond or something in his book,when he said things like "FW never worked a regular job the whole time I knew him" etc....well,he didn't know him all his life,and he failed to mention he didn't need to work anyway.
He must have personal interest in trying to bring him down.For sure, I suspect he knows more than he can say right now.

ETA: didn't DP pull a gun on FW when they were in Atlanta? Seems JR forgets to mention that li'i tidbit of info quite often.

True story - however John didn't forget, he just twisted the story around so that Fleet was blamed for the gun......:bang:

The one issue that has always stood out foremost to me is that the duct tape had a perfect lip impression from JonBenet - proving that there was no struggle from her whenever the tape was placed over her mouth....

 

[ShesElectric]

The one issue that has always stood out foremost to me is that the duct tape had a perfect lip impression from JonBenet - proving that there was no struggle from her whenever the tape was placed over her mouth....


Hmm, interesting. Maybe this suggests that JonBenet' was unconscious
when this occured, or she was somehow being tricked into doing something,(
which I find hard to believe.)
I've always thought the head blow came before the strangulation,
but there's always doubt in my mind.


Connor