Casey & Family Psychological Profile #3

[Brini]

IMO CA is a socipathic narcissist and daugther KC is the same. GA is a putz. Haven't managed to figure out LA yet...


MOO

I think LA is the putz that didn't fall far from the putz tree. He's a RUDE putz.

 

[Brini]

While channel surfing looking for coverage on the case I stumbled onto a show that helped me potentially understand something key about this case. The show as called 'Intervention' and it was about a family that has a young mother battling anorexia. She had two young kids and besides anorexia she had checked out of her mom duties and was pill popping to boot.

The family had enough and staged an intervention. Several scenes concerning this were played out on the show.

First, the dad of the mother (grand dad) had a pretty hard time getting away from notion of writing her off which was his stance before the interventionist got involved. The young mother was using a molestation in her youth from someone as an excuse to continue the disorder. I had an interest in anorexia in the past and I believe this condition is very very hard to successfully treat. To me the molestation thing was a ruse.

When the intervention occurred, grand dad read a letter out about how the kids had withdrawn from her and that they needed their mother. They had to tiptoe around her saying the loved her and wanted her to be the best mom ect. The goal was to convince her to accept treatment.

Her responses to this were telling and key. I watched very intently to her reactions to all this. In a few scenes that led up to this, you see the mother say, to the camera no less, that she did want to come down and fix the kids lunch because she was on the computer. Her expression and the way she delivered these comments where telling. During the intervention their were other reactions.

The bottom line is that what popped into my mind viewing these reactions was a closeted HATRED for her kids. She could not truly admit this feeling because that would drive the grand parents to disown her and her enabled lifestyle. I felt it though ... that was a solid feeling that came through to me.

At any rate, a key in this case is how being annoyed at being a mom gets amped up to a rage leading to murder. This show seemed to illustrate a path: a hidden, building anger from a building narcissism directed at weak victim. Even for this show, the problems of the mother where drowning out this aspect of it. I found the show informative and telling.

Sounds like a GREAt show! :clap::clap:

 

[Brini]

Last night I saw a rather interesting documentary on Malignant Narcissism with Antisocial Personality traits and IMO it is 100% fitting of Casey Anthony! I called my sister who is the head of a psych unit and assistant to the professor to discuss. She also thought this of CA.

Here is a look at some of the info:

An absence of conscience, a psychological need for power, and a sense of importance (grandiosity) are often symptomatic of Malignant Narcissism. The malignant narcissist is presented as pathologically grandiose, lacking in conscience and behavioral regulation with characteristic demonstrations of joyful cruelty, and overestimates their abilities and has an excessive need for admiration and affirmation. This may be present to such a degree that it severely damages the person's ability to live a productive or happy life because the traits manifest as severe selfishness and disregard for the needs and feelings of others.

Many features of person's with MN are often ambitious and capable but are unable cope with setbacks, disagreements or criticism. These emotional limitations along with a complete lack of empathy make it difficult for such individuals to work well with others and to build a successful career.

Pathologically narcissim is the art of deception, and the narcissist presents a False-Self managing all their social interactions through this concocted fictional construct. People often find themselves involved with a narcissist (emotionally, in business, or otherwise) before they have a chance to discover their true nature. ( I think this is what happened to Jesse and Amy!)


A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, need for excessive attention, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance
2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique
4. requires excessive admiration
5. has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations.
6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends.
7. lacks empathy and is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.
8. is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
10. contemptuous of human beings, and to be completely without conscience

IMO this is completely fitting of Casey and I am wondering if the defense will have her evaluated by a psychiatrist or psychologist of their own at some point in time. Would it not be beneficial? I found this fascinating and more in line with Casey's presentation than any type of DD!

Fits her like a tailored Versace! My guess is that the prosecution shrink found: ASPD (sociopathy), NPD, HPD and BPD.

I don't now what the defense might do, unless they try to push DID (multiple personality disorder) due to sexuakl abuse, or something. I don't think it will fly, though. Bianch tried the DID thing.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Very true. Fifteen years ago I had a nervous breakdown as the result of a lot of tough things which were going on in my life at the time. The drugs I was given caused me to become briefly psychotic. I checked myself into the hospital for a few days, because I had young children and felt it wasn't safe for me to be around them. I know what it feels like to be psychotic and it isn't fun. I didn't feel like going out partying with my friends. You couldn't get a smile on my face if you paid me a million dollars. It is one of the most terrifying things I have ever gone through and it makes me a little upset when people refer to KC as psychotic. She is not psychotic.

Sorry about the life story.

:hug: I have had issues with Psychosis (I honestly meant no harm to anyone in admitting I was frustrated with the terms Bipolar OR Psychotic being used to describe Casey. I just hate stigma) for as long as I can remember so I totally get what you mean about psychosis being terrifying. It is- it's like your mind have been taken over and there is nothing you can do about it. You lose interest in your own personal hygiene, you withdrawl from people, you become unable to focus on anything. Your speech is even affected. Simple outside noise and touch effect you differently, sometimes even makes one angry or irritable. Many become overly focused on religion or the occult. You become suspicious of everyone- accuse them of outlandish things!

Psychosis is not pretty, in any sense of the word. And sadly, it is uglier and harder on our loved ones than it is on us- we are insane and protected from it, they are not!

I had horrific guilt, was often suicidal- for a long time (therapy helps of course but it never goes away totally and that's OK, it's good to remember where ya came from.. it reminds you of why you don't ever want to go back!) because of the hurt that I caused my loved ones while manic and/or psychotic and IMO if people cannot see any of the other signs, that in itself (lack of guilt, of saddness for what she has done) shows Casey does not have either disease!

I am glad you feel better now :blowkiss:

 

[Brini]

I agree 100% with that as a potential "diagnosis", however, when you say would it not be beneficial...I ask, "to what"? A defense? The answer is no. Many people walk this earth with that as a diagnosis of their own personality disorder, however, that doesn't "cause" one to commit murder. It very well may explain why no visible remorse, and why she is so indifferent...however, it is not a defense for murder. Again. It goes back to the "did the perp know right from wrong". There is no getting Casey out of this. Not in my opinion. She has shown far too much evidence of cognitive thinking during the 31 days that Caylee was "missing". I don't believe any diagnosis will release her from a guilty verdict...except one, which I will explain in the next post. Just my opinion.

Yep! It all comes down to that!

 

[Brini]

Back in the "early days" of Caylee missing, I wrote the family. It was because I read in the investigative report that in early January 08 she was taken to the hospital with a seizure. Nothing more was ever said about it. My question, rather comments...was for the family to have a full MRI done on Casey. There is a slight possibility...albeit, extreme, but possible if she has a brain tumor affecting her "right from wrong" part of her brain...which would be the ventromedial prefrontal cortex...that could explain her actions.

I had a patient years ago that came to the ER handcuffed to the railings of the hospital bed with two guards. This young man (34) was aprox 6"7" and literally about 300 lbs of pure muscle. A football physique. He was dying of a massive brain tumor. However, it should be known that prior to his prison sentence this man was a completely normal human being. NEVER in trouble, a working family man and father/husband. His wife expressed he started having some depressive episodes and seemed to get quite agitated for no reason and this was unlike him. It was not until he brutally raped a young woman and was arrested that they discovered the tumor, after trials and after incarceration. So, in essence, if we are looking at possible scenario's that could cause Casey to do what she did...that could be one of them.

Again, it was never stated as to why she had that seizure nor what tests may have been done in the hospital. It was a friend that took her. It could have been from drinking, drugs and or not eating, etc. And not anything as serious as a brain tumor. But it is a thought that should be ruled out. For the family's sakes.

Qustions, did she steal and lie long BEFORE the seizure? Did the hospital do an MRI?

But, she's STILL stuck with the legal definition of insanity.

 

[Brini]

Very true. Fifteen years ago I had a nervous breakdown as the result of a lot of tough things which were going on in my life at the time. The drugs I was given caused me to become briefly psychotic. I checked myself into the hospital for a few days, because I had young children and felt it wasn't safe for me to be around them. I know what it feels like to be psychotic and it isn't fun. I didn't feel like going out partying with my friends. You couldn't get a smile on my face if you paid me a million dollars. It is one of the most terrifying things I have ever gone through and it makes me a little upset when people refer to KC as psychotic. She is not psychotic.

Sorry about the life story.

Why sorry? You are dead right!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Frank psychotics are easy to spot, if you've been around them. OLG can confirm that-- she's BEEN one.

Evil is VERY hard to spot. Bundy, Bianchi, Peterson.... Some sociopaths-- the smart ones-- look and act better than normal people. I have one now that is a tearing, blonde beauty. Could model for one of Boticelli's angel paintings.

But, you're right.. if you haven't been around severe mental illness AND evil, it's easy to confuse the two.

Not once you have seen it before though, IMO. Evil has a look, might as well be an odor as far as I am concerned! :blowkiss:

 

[Brini]

OneLostGrl I truly thank you from the bottom of my heart for your post, and also for so very openly sharing with us all. It is wonderful to know that I am not alone sometimes. I have long had much difficulty due to the stigma attached to this very subject with sharing my own diagnosis's and experiences. It is others like you that truly help people like me to know that we are not outcasts of society!

Have a very Merry Christmas!

If you knew how many, many millions of productiv people are on psychotropics, you would never feel alone, again.

I think they day is not to far off when mental illness will be seen the same as physical illness.

 

[Brini]

If KC had a brain tumor she would display other physical symptoms of it
I would think & the seizures would become more frequent and severe

Often we want a cause, a reason for someone to behave so callously towards others . In describing Malignant Narcissism its difficult to
get across how lack of empathy grandiosity and no moral compass
allows them to do horrible things to the people close to them. The leap
from thought to deed isnt far which is what makes them dangerous
Casey has no normal feelings towards the people around her . They
are divided into two groups useful or not useful .
Caylee was a threat . She was talking more and more
she was going to expose KC. She was also keeping her from spending time with TonE , intolerable to a narcissist . In her mind all she did was neutralize the threat , remove the obstacle. Once done she never thought about it again . By the time she was in blockbuster
wrapped around TonE, Caylee was already a faint distant memory .
Narcissists need enablers and because they need them they hate them
Narcissist used to be called meglamania - its distressing to the narcissist who believes they are unique and special to need such ordinary
pathetic creatures. They are consumed with fanasty greed and jealousy. They want it all - all the attention , all the resources . KC believed she was entitled to be catered to , to be taken care of . There are two excellent sites that explain Narcissism in laymans terms
one is " narcissists suck" and the other is "what makes narcissist tick"
you can find both through google searches .

Thanks a BAZILLION for this!:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:

 

[indicat]

If you knew how many, many millions of productiv people are on psychotropics, you would never feel alone, again.

I think they day is not to far off when mental illness will be seen the same as physical illness.

As it very well should be. I have been diagnosed with MS. I say it is no more my sister's fault that she is diagnosed Bi-polar 1 then its my fault to be diagnosed with MS.

 

[OneLostGrl]

OneLostGrl I truly thank you from the bottom of my heart for your post, and also for so very openly sharing with us all. It is wonderful to know that I am not alone sometimes. I have long had much difficulty due to the stigma attached to this very subject with sharing my own diagnosis's and experiences. It is others like you that truly help people like me to know that we are not outcasts of society!

Have a very Merry Christmas!

That's why I talk- It's why I do not shut up! It's why I get upset when Casey and Bipolar or Psychosis are used in a sentence! I do not want one more person to suffer needlessly because of lack of knowledge or the stigma of mental illness! I lived my entire life messed up- even as a child all I ever wanted to do was die and sadly even then I thought it was my fault, that I was a bad person, that it was a flaw in me. I am 36 years old and I have only been "normaL" for the last 6 of those years. But that does not have to happen to other people!

Mental illness is not your fault, you do not deserve it and it is not a flaw in your character- There is hope and I am a wonderful bad example

Merry Christmas to you too

 

[racegirl72]

Can someone direct me to a link to the first deposition from GA and CA??? I can't find them anywhere online now.....Just thought it would be interesting to go way back to those first statements they made in a courtroom when everything was still kinda new.....just to remember what all they said back then.....I wasn't sure where to post this question....hope this thread is ok...

 

[OneLostGrl]

Thank you for sharing here, tiredofthis.:blowkiss: Now I see why I always love your thoughts and posts, as I had a similar experience a few years back as well. After 2 unexpected deaths in my immediate family within 16 days of each other, and going through a nasty divorce! On top of that I am a nurse, with a stressful position, and the pain of ending up sick and broken in the very hospital that I work in compounded my illness! I was completely terrified and wanted to ball up in a corner and just wither away! I couldn't even walk myself to the bathroom, much less go out and party like like a rock star! I too know what psychosis feels like, and Casey has never ever been psychotic!

I won't even get into the spiritual side of this case. However, I'll only say that I firmly believe that some are plain old evil. And only Divine Intervention can change the workings of evil. As long as Casey surrounds herself with so many like minded peopleas herself, chances for Divine Change are nill.

Survivors are everywhere, I love it!!! :blowkiss:

 

[OneLostGrl]

Can someone direct me to a link to the first deposition from GA and CA??? I can't find them anywhere online now.....Just thought it would be interesting to go way back to those first statements they made in a courtroom when everything was still kinda new.....just to remember what all they said back then.....I wasn't sure where to post this question....hope this thread is ok...

oh gosh, I think I'd start in the sticky's thread. I wish I could be of more help but I suck at that kind of stuff! I'm sorry! Try asking in the "questions for other websleuthers" those people are darn good at knowing that stuff! I wish my brain worked half as good!

 

[OneLostGrl]

WS friends, I found the most interesting link today, which I think may be quite insightful in demonstrating bonafide psychosis: Dr. Juliann Mitchell, Ph.D.'s, Profile of a Sociopath, written about Casey Anthony. Forget the profile piece, though -- check out the comments, particularly the comments by a poster calling herself "Marcia Neil." Now, there are quite a few comments to wade through, so bear with it. It's very interesting, IMO. As a professional who works in the mental health field, "Marcia Neil"'s comments are extremely consistent with psychosis. Note, this is different than delusional, as delusions are a fixed belief (which, okay, sometimes are nonsensical -- like, sometimes a person genuinely believes the moon is made of green cheese, etc). It's very nebulous, making the distinction between delusions and psychosis sometimes, so I'll just leave it at in my experience persons suffering from psychosis, who overtly demonstrate their symptoms, often show more disorganized and nonsensical thought patterns and beliefs (although they may make sense to the individual in their own mind). Persons with fixed delusions often present very believable ideas. The main difference is that psychosis can respond to medication; delusions do not.

I thought Dr. Juliann Mitchell handled the poster's comments with extreme kindness, for what it's worth.

I'm sure this profile has been posted in the media threads at some point, but I actually found it by accident, when I was reading an article on former Cook County Illinois judge Thomas J. Maloney. Go figure!

Ol' Marcia does seem a tad "off", no doubt. We used to have a poster here on this very thread who I believe was psychotic- I am not saying that in any offensive manner, I am saying it because if people read the posts from this person I think they may see it as well. In this situation when the poster was spoken to when people resonded, it fuled the delusion and future responses would be even more out there. But when ignored he simply moved on.

It was very sad to see how others treated this poster even after pm's sent letting others know that this poster may not be trying to be difficult but may be psychotic and have no control over it.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Not sure if this has been posted but whilst looking something else up came across this !

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/smith/confess_8.html



WELL !!! How interesting is THAT!

Caylee was wrapped in plastic and under water !!

Caylee was withing 10 miles from home

If these places know these things and they suspect the Mothers why don't they LOOK THERE FIRST ???

Good point!

 

[indicat]

Ol' Marcia does seem a tad "off", no doubt. We used to have a poster here on this very thread who I believe was psychotic- I am not saying that in any offensive manner, I am saying it because if people read the posts from this person I think they may see it as well. In this situation when the poster was spoken to when people resonded, it fuled the delusion and future responses would be even more out there. But when ignored he simply moved on.

It was very sad to see how others treated this poster even after pm's sent letting others know that this poster may not be trying to be difficult but may be psychotic and have no control over it.

I forgot about the poster here! Once you see this you can spot it, and in person you can feel the difference. KC is cold and calculating and her actions are all about what is self serving. It gets confused because she is not the sharpest tool in the shed but she is not delusional, no.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Yep! The atypical antipsychotic Abilify is being promoted for repractory depression. All of my Axis IIs are also getting it. They get less of a does than the standard for psychotics. It breaks up the ruminations.

Call me crazy crazy but I really think they are our future in mental health treatment, Anti-psychotics. Once they can get all the little "bugs" out of 'em of course- they have way too many side effects for too many people other than your mood/brain disordered, to be willing to take them for very long. But I can see them working for so many different illnesses and IMO other than Seroquel none of the atypicals even really make ya tired. OCD, phobia's, Tourette syndrome.. it would be heaven- no more Orap or Haldol. Uggh! Do they already use them in OCD or Tourettes? They should!

LOL Listen to me- what am I, Manic?! WTF, Laura! LMAO!

(I re-read what I wrote to you and started laughing out loud (for real) at myself and went to get rid of it rather than posting it but then figured maybe you'd like the laugh as much as I just did!)

 

[OneLostGrl]

As it very well should be. I have been diagnosed with MS. I say it is no more my sister's fault that she is diagnosed Bi-polar 1 then its my fault to be diagnosed with MS.

I am so sorry for both your and your sisters health issues, neither are easy! :blowkiss: