Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 1

[kashell]

Originally Posted by Leila
Good point! It's known that George worked the 3:00pm to 11:00pm shift on June 15th. So if the fight occurred prior to 11:00pm, he probably wasn't home. Cindy could have left the residence to calm down and came home to find Casey and Caylee gone.

Ok, how about this?

George works until 11pm, gets home sometime later. I know when my husband worked 2nd shift it took several hours for him to "wind down" after work, he usually didn't go to bed until 2-3 am. The fight between Cindy and KC takes place earlier in the evening. KC leaves to a same-ping location, or just stays in her room, fuming and texting. (Has anyone ever seen the content of those texts that night? Why didn't KC go to Tony's that night?) Cindy does tuck Caylee in the night of the 15th in her own room. Doesn't talk to KC.
George sleeps till 10-10:30 am on the 16th. Cindy hasn't told him about the fight because, well, it was Fathers Day and she didn't want to upset him, or she was already asleep when he went to bed, or just because there were so many fights she didn't even think it was that big of a deal. Maybe she was embarrassed that she had lost control enough to choke KC and didn't want George to know she'd gone that far.
KC and Caylee do get up that morning for breakfast, Cindy's at work, George is asleep. He gets up late, sees them leave(just another normal day) Casey comes back after he leaves for work, and that's when she kills Caylee.
Or since they all had the date wrong initially (the 9th), maybe that's what he saw her wearing that day, just remembering the last time *he* saw Caylee. If he worked at 3pm on Father's Day, he may have been gone or asleep when KC brought Caylee to the house to go to the nursing home with Cindy.He may not have seen Caylee at all that day .

***Whoa, just saw the ping info from Anthony house to KC's cell phone at 7:45am 6/16. Yes, I'd bet that Cindy called KC to find out where she was. Why else would you call someone that was right in the house, unless they wouldn't unlock their bedroom door?***

 

[Chilly Willy]

Ok, how about this?

George works until 11pm, gets home sometime later. I know when my husband worked 2nd shift it took several hours for him to "wind down" after work, he usually didn't go to bed until 2-3 am. The fight between Cindy and KC takes place earlier in the evening. KC leaves to a same-ping location, or just stays in her room, fuming and texting. (Has anyone ever seen the content of those texts that night? Why didn't KC go to Tony's that night?) Cindy does tuck Caylee in the night of the 15th in her own room. Doesn't talk to KC.
George sleeps till 10-10:30 am on the 16th. Cindy hasn't told him about the fight because, well, it was Fathers Day and she didn't want to upset him, or she was already asleep when he went to bed, or just because there were so many fights she didn't even think it was that big of a deal. Maybe she was embarrassed that she had lost control enough to choke KC and didn't want George to know she'd gone that far.
KC and Caylee do get up that morning for breakfast, Cindy's at work, George is asleep. He gets up late, sees them leave(just another normal day) Casey comes back after he leaves for work, and that's when she kills Caylee.
Or since they all had the date wrong initially (the 9th), maybe that's what he saw her wearing that day, just remembering the last time *he* saw Caylee. If he worked at 3pm on Father's Day, he may have been gone or asleep when KC brought Caylee to the house to go to the nursing home with Cindy.He may not have seen Caylee at all that day .

I'm not sure George is mistaken about seeing them on the 16th. The clothes he described Caylee wearing are the exact same clothes Casey says Caylee was wearing when she dropped her off with ZFG. Could Casey have changed Caylee's clothes and left the original ones someplace where she hoped they'd be found - in an attempt to support the kidnapping theory? Is that what she was referring to when she said "They haven't even found her clothes yet" - if she actually did say that?

Probably not, now that I see it in writing.

 

[Friday]

From what I understand, Cindy had already replaced the money by that time. I can't recall where that information came from but I'll see if I can find it.

Thanks, Chilly. Because if KC's thefts from her grandparents were already old news to Cindy, then we don't know why -- or even if -- Cindy went into a rage when she got home and attempted to strangle KC. IIRC, we have only KC's words (to JG?) about Cindy's attack on her. And we know how "poor KC" loves telling tales of how abused she is by everyone.

Wouldn't it be ironic, if CA was actually telling the truth about the evening of June 15th but we're all assuming she's telling us yet another mis-truth...which is mis-leading us to focus on the wrong events/reasons for KC taking Caylee's life.

 

[Bev]

If she did say "they haven't ...clothes yet" that's about the ONLY way it makes sense, Chilly. Obviously the clothes she was dressed in when she was dumped wasn't the same outfit George says he saw her in - the clothes were in the house.

 

[JWG]

If she did say "they haven't ...clothes yet" that's about the ONLY way it makes sense, Chilly. Obviously the clothes she was dressed in when she was dumped wasn't the same outfit George says he saw her in - the clothes were in the house.

FWIW...The clothes she was dumped in were also not the clothes KC said Caylee was wearing in her written statement...

 

[Shaymus at The Rock]

If she did say "they haven't ...clothes yet" that's about the ONLY way it makes sense, Chilly. Obviously the clothes she was dressed in when she was dumped wasn't the same outfit George says he saw her in - the clothes were in the house.

I missed this detail. Are you saying that the outfit George described was found in the house after Caylee's disappearance ? If so, how do we know this ?

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

The 7:45am call to KC's cell is definitely interesting, but Cindy will explain that way. Saying she just wanted to leave KC a message on her voice mail and knew the phone would be likely charging so it wouldn't wake them. You know "Don't forget lasagna for dinner tonight." or "Don't forget Caylee wants to wear her new bathing suite today." Something normal like that.

 

[JWG]

Thanks, Chilly. Because if KC's thefts from her grandparents were already old news to Cindy, then we don't know why -- or even if -- Cindy went into a rage when she got home and attempted to strangle KC. IIRC, we have only KC's words (to JG?) about Cindy's attack on her. And we know how "poor KC" loves telling tales of how abused she is by everyone.

Wouldn't it be ironic, if CA was actually telling the truth about the evening of June 15th but we're all assuming she's telling us yet another mis-truth...which is mis-leading us to focus on the wrong events/reasons for KC taking Caylee's life.

Friday, you might be interested in what Ryan P. passed along to Yuri during his first interview. He said in late May, 2008 (Ryan describes it as about three weeks before Caylee went missing), Cindy called him while he is at school. She is upset and wants to warn Ryan he should probably stay away from KC - actually uses the word 'sociopath' with Ryan to describe KC. Tells Ryan she stole money from Cindy's parents. Asks him about some of the things KC has told her that she suspects are lies. This is when Cindy learns from Ryan that KC never worked at Sport's Authority. (evidence p. 164)

 

[Bev]

So the clothes that George saw her in were also the same clothes that KC said she was wearing in KC's statement - correct?

p.s. No, Shaymus, sorry, didn't explain that correctly. If KC did make that comment about the clothes was it because the clothes she had on when GA last saw her were still in the house?

 

[elle1919]

Ok, how about this?

George works until 11pm, gets home sometime later. I know when my husband worked 2nd shift it took several hours for him to "wind down" after work, he usually didn't go to bed until 2-3 am. The fight between Cindy and KC takes place earlier in the evening. KC leaves to a same-ping location, or just stays in her room, fuming and texting. (Has anyone ever seen the content of those texts that night? Why didn't KC go to Tony's that night?) Cindy does tuck Caylee in the night of the 15th in her own room. Doesn't talk to KC.
George sleeps till 10-10:30 am on the 16th. Cindy hasn't told him about the fight because, well, it was Fathers Day and she didn't want to upset him, or she was already asleep when he went to bed, or just because there were so many fights she didn't even think it was that big of a deal. Maybe she was embarrassed that she had lost control enough to choke KC and didn't want George to know she'd gone that far.
KC and Caylee do get up that morning for breakfast, Cindy's at work, George is asleep. He gets up late, sees them leave(just another normal day) Casey comes back after he leaves for work, and that's when she kills Caylee.
Or since they all had the date wrong initially (the 9th), maybe that's what he saw her wearing that day, just remembering the last time *he* saw Caylee. If he worked at 3pm on Father's Day, he may have been gone or asleep when KC brought Caylee to the house to go to the nursing home with Cindy.He may not have seen Caylee at all that day .

***Whoa, just saw the ping info from Anthony house to KC's cell phone at 7:45am 6/16. Yes, I'd bet that Cindy called KC to find out where she was. Why else would you call someone that was right in the house, unless they wouldn't unlock their bedroom door?***

Your last comment has me laughing...both my older children 16 and 18...have cell phones. Every morning at 5:30 my husband calls my 16 year old son to tell him it's time to get up and take a shower cause he is too lazy to go tell him in person. I too am guilty of calling my daughters cell when someone calls on the landline instead of dropping what I am doing to go find her. My kids ALWAYS answer their cell, so I know I will get through on that!

 

[Chilly Willy]

The 7:45am call to KC's cell is definitely interesting, but Cindy will explain that way. Saying she just wanted to leave KC a message on her voice mail and knew the phone would be likely charging so it wouldn't wake them. You know "Don't forget lasagna for dinner tonight." or "Don't forget Caylee wants to wear her new bathing suite today." Something normal like that.

I don't find that to be so unlikely. I call my daughter's cell phone quite often even though she's right upstairs in her bedroom. It beats hollering up the stairs.

 

[Chilly Willy]

So the clothes that George saw her in were also the same clothes that KC said she was wearing in KC's statement - correct?

Yes. A pink top and blue jean shorts.

 

[Chilly Willy]

Friday, you might be interested in what Ryan P. passed along to Yuri during his first interview. He said in late May, 2008 (Ryan describes it as about three weeks before Caylee went missing), Cindy called him while he is at school. She is upset and wants to warn Ryan he should probably stay away from KC - actually uses the word 'sociopath' with Ryan to describe KC. Tells Ryan she stole money from Cindy's parents. Asks him about some of the things KC has told her that she suspects are lies. This is when Cindy learns from Ryan that KC never worked at Sport's Authority. (evidence p. 164)

Thank you. I knew I'd seen this information somewhere. I believe the 2nd theft, of $352 (?) took place in April. The other theft was earlier than that.

 

[Shaymus at The Rock]

Yes. A pink top and blue jean shorts.

And was that little outfit found in the Anthony's home after her disappearance ?

 

[Chilly Willy]

And was that little outfit found in the Anthony's home after her disappearance ?

That I don't know.

EDIT: If you check the myspace thread, Caylee seems to be wearing this same outfit - or one similar - in the photo of her standing in front of a Christmas tree. That photo appeared on a myspace page that someone created with a cryptical message about "Cay" returning home.

 

[Friday]

FWIW...The clothes she was dumped in were also not the clothes KC said Caylee was wearing in her written statement...

In her written statement, did KC describe the same outfit that George described Caylee wearing on 6/15? Thanks in advance for sparing me the need to search through all the big document files on this computer to find out for myself. :blowkiss:

 

[RammerJammer]

I don't find that to be so unlikely. I call my daughter's cell phone quite often even though she's right upstairs in her bedroom. It beats hollering up the stairs.

The same thing happens at our house. When our teenage son gets home from school or soccer practice, he hibernates in his roon--except for feeding times! We always call each other on the cell, kind of like an intercom.t does beat hollering or running up and down the stairs. I find Cindy calling KC in the home very believable.

 

[Shaymus at The Rock]

That I don't know.

It may not be an important point. Caylee probably had quite a few pink tops and possibly more than one pair of jean shorts.

Which is very interesting, now that I think about it. What a generic outfit they both described !! Most little girl jeans and jean shorts have lots of little detailing - flowers, rainbows, hearts, as do little pink shirts. The kinds of details that could actually help in an investigation.

 

[Chilly Willy]

The same thing happens at our house. When our teenage son gets home from school or soccer practice, he hibernates in his roon--except for feeding times! We always call each other on the cell, kind of like an intercom.t does beat hollering or running up and down the stairs. I find Cindy calling KC in the home very believable.

LOL @ except for feeding time. :clap:

 

[Bev]

I don't see what difference it would make if KC and CA did have a fight on the 15th. I suppose the case could be made that it goes to motive but it doesn't change the evidence in any way. The only thing that could upset the apple cart on is insisting that the baby was killed on the 15th - it would make the LE's timeline off an entire day.