Caylee's smile/behavior

[Ripley007]

What bothers me, no playmates?
no other children in photos with her?
Just grown ups, mom's friends?

Now THIS genuinely bothers me. KC had at least two freinds, including one who lived on the same street, with similar aged children. Why were they not at her 2nd B-day party? Why wasn't the imaginary Zach, her daycare playmate there? Oh, yeah, he was never born.

 

[Who_What_When]

I don't see anything wrong with any of the pictures or the videos. Children all act different in front of a camera. My son hated getting his picture taken at that age and I have quite a few photos that show it. He then went through the fake smile stage, the normal picture stage and the crazy photo stage, etc. I have many nieces and nephews all around the same age and each one acts differently. Some love the camera, some scream when they see it and some just stand there looking bored or scared. I think way too much is being read into the photos. It appears to me that her grandparents adored her and took photos of every little milestone in her short life and for their sake, I'm glad they did as this is all they have left.

As for the video with her sitting on her great grandfather's lap, I don't think this is that strange. Again, all kids act differently. My son would never have done it and would have been screaming to get away, yet my niece would have stayed their quietly. It really depends on the child.

 

[Oakley]

I've never started a thread before, so please be kind. I've been wanting to mention this for a while, but haven't seen a thread to talk about it.

My friend has been a teacher for many years — actually teaches elementary school teachers and principals for graduate degrees, etc. Last week, he was over when I had Nancy Grace on — and they were showing pictures of Caylee. He knows nothing about the case (I know, what rock has he been living under?) and he suddenly stopped and said, "Whoa, who's that? Those aren't real smiles." Basically, as he watched the show with me, he said that in nearly all of Caylee's pictures, her mouth formed into what she probably thought was a smile — but her eyes were telling a much different story. In others, she seems contemplative. In very few does she look truly happy, joyous as other young children her age.

But he was most amazed by the video of Caylee with her great-grand father on Father's day. He couldn't believe that a 3-year-old child would lie there for so long without moving a muscle—as if she was directed (off-camera) to do exactly as she was told. (Look at her eyes — they're waiting to be told she can move.) Then, after a very long while, she pops up her head and kisses him — but you can tell it's somebody off camera (Cindy, no doubt) telling her to kiss him. I mean, do you know any 3-year-olds who would sit still for that long?

My point is this: God knows in all those hours of being alone with KC (while she was "working" during the day) Caylee probably LEARNED she had to do exactly as she was told — or else. The more I look at her pictures I see sad, sad eyes — and a child willing to do anything to please.

Any thoughts?

Don't know why but after reading this, some things Amy H said in her interview came to mind. I went back and read it and here they are:

"Like she's (Caylee) very well behaved."

"I think Casey and her mom have done a very good job of saying no and meaning no and she's pretty good about listening to it."

"There were times when Caylee wasn't really being a bother to anyone and she'd (Casey) be like 'Caylee, come sit down.' ... If that was the way that Caylee responded when Casey meant business, then it's not my place to question other people's parenting."

"The kid slept through anything (as Amy described Caylee sleeping on the couch during parties.) She really did, it was amazing."

Is this indicative of what you mention? I don't know. But it bears more thought.

 

[Who_What_When]

What bothers me, no playmates?
no other children in photos with her?
Just grown ups, mom's friends?

I respectfully disagree. Not all children have playmates with them all the time, especially if they aren't in daycare. My mom has watched my son and my niece since they were infants and almost all their pictures are with us only. They had friends but it wasn’t like we saw them all the time and usually didn’t take photos when we were with them. As for having kids at a party, we would invite our friends who have kids, but not all people do. My best friend has two children (with a big age difference) and she has never had a kid’s birthday party, only family. A guy I work with just had his daughters 2nd Birthday party and it was just family and no kids. It's really not unusual at that age. It's when they go to school that the kid parties really begin.

 

[Ripley007]

What I have been waiting for someone to bring up, was the fact that Casey's friends said that Caylee was a little flirt. It turned my stomach. Where does a 2 year old learn to flirt??

I don't know either how babies learn to flirt. And I say babies, cause I'm referring to my own experience. I'm sure I've posted about this before. When my son (now age 28) was a mere INFANT he "flirted" with women. Especially cashiers and waitresses. I cannot begin to tell you of how many times I heard the words-"Wow, what a little flirt. He's going to be a heart-breaker!" These words were spoken over and over again about my son before he could even walk! It went beyond his physical "good-looks" he genuinely FLIRTED with his smile and his eyes. He wasn't "taught" this. He wasn't sexually abused or sexually sensitized, it was just his God given nature. Nothing sinister. Nothing more.

 

[Who_What_When]

I don't know either how babies learn to flirt. And I say babies, cause I'm referring to my own experience. I'm sure I've posted about this before. When my son (now age 28) was a mere INFANT he "flirted" with women. Especially cashiers and waitresses. I cannot begin to tell you of how many times I heard the words-"Wow, what a little flirt. He's going to be a heart-breaker!" These words were spoken over and over again about my son before he could even walk! It went beyond his physical "good-looks" he genuinely FLIRTED with his smile and his eyes. He wasn't "taught" this. He wasn't sexually abused or sexually sensitized, it was just his God given nature. Nothing sinister. Nothing more.

Awe! That brings back memories. My niece was a little flirt and we would always tease her about it and she turned out perfectly normal!

 

[mimimama5]

I don't know either how babies learn to flirt. And I say babies, cause I'm referring to my own experience. I'm sure I've posted about this before. When my son (now age 28) was a mere INFANT he "flirted" with women. Especially cashiers and waitresses. I cannot begin to tell you of how many times I heard the words-"Wow, what a little flirt. He's going to be a heart-breaker!" These words were spoken over and over again about my son before he could even walk! It went beyond his physical "good-looks" he genuinely FLIRTED with his smile and his eyes. He wasn't "taught" this. He wasn't sexually abused or sexually sensitized, it was just his God given nature. Nothing sinister. Nothing more.

My two youngest boys are the same! they are 2 and 1 now, and they have been shamelessly flirting since they figured out they get a reaction from it. Our 1 yr old is nonverbal, but he batts his long lashes at women ( mostly clerks and waitresses as well) and peeks out from under his lashes...everyone just goes crazy over the cuteness! Its funny because our oldest 2 children are quiet and reserved, and the the babes are flirty...every child is different.

I do agree with alot of what has been posted on Caylee's smiles, in most pictures she looks like she has her mothers forced smile. Others she looks like a normal baby girl, there are very few that look sad or lonley to me. I have a ton of pictures of our boys too, and I probably don't keep 1/2 of what I take of them, I sift through them trying to get a true expression out of them. Kids at that age are hard to capture on film...its never really just right. just my thoughts...

 

[Gracenote]

Yes, I was just about to post this same thing. Papa IS singing, that is why Caylee is so still...because her papa is singing to her, and she is listening to him. The thought of it makes me cry....

That is sad to me because I never knew grandparents or great grands. Although he is in poor health, Caylee would have carried memories of him into her adulthood and certainly had a long, loving relationship with CeCe and JoJo. She was robbed of that. They were robbed of that and I find myself getting suddenly very angry at the one who tore this family apart and who out of jealousy and arrogance took the little beam of sunshine away from all of them. The one little spark of joy in their mundane, painful, stressful, average lives, and she had to destroy it. How dare she. How dare she!

Sorry. I just got really angry. I'll go read something else for a while.

 

[Who_What_When]

That is sad to me because I never knew grandparents or great grands. Although he is in poor health, Caylee would have carried memories of him into her adulthood and certainly had a long, loving relationship with CeCe and JoJo. She was robbed of that. They were robbed of that and I find myself getting suddenly very angry at the one who tore this family apart and who out of jealousy and arrogance took the little beam of sunshine away from all of them. The one little spark of joy in their mundane, painful, stressful, average lives, and she had to destroy it. How dare she. How dare she!

Sorry. I just got really angry. I'll go read something else for a while.

Don't be sorry! ITA. I can't believe any parent would do something like this to their child. How? Why? It completely blows my mind. It's very sad and I especially feel bad for her grandparents, the only ones who seemed to genuinely loved her.

 

[Who_What_When]

No I think these have been screened out but my child didn't have playmates either at that age.
I didn't take her to daycare
And I am an older mother so all my friends had their babies earlier on

And I don't believe that Caylee is visibly upset in the video that was posted earlier with her colouring in
We are not there to see the context of any of it
Indeed we don't even know who took it

ITA. I think some photos aren't as happy as others, but I don't find that odd since it appears that they were very picture happy and were taking pictures of everything she did. My DH's family is the same way. There are millions of photos.

 

[Ames]

That is sad to me because I never knew grandparents or great grands. Although he is in poor health, Caylee would have carried memories of him into her adulthood and certainly had a long, loving relationship with CeCe and JoJo. She was robbed of that. They were robbed of that and I find myself getting suddenly very angry at the one who tore this family apart and who out of jealousy and arrogance took the little beam of sunshine away from all of them. The one little spark of joy in their mundane, painful, stressful, average lives, and she had to destroy it. How dare she. How dare she!

Sorry. I just got really angry. I'll go read something else for a while.

Don't be sorry, I agree with you. I could rip KC's face off. She can blame Zanny the nanny all she wants, but it wasn't Zanny the Nanny's car trunk that had evidence of a decomposing body in it, it was KC's. Everything about this case just makes me cry, but your post made me cry harder...

 

[snookie]

What I have been waiting for someone to bring up, was the fact that Casey's friends said that Caylee was a little flirt. It turned my stomach. Where does a 2 year old learn to flirt??

By "flirt" I think they meant she was a very outgoing or friendly child. Not meant in a sexual way at all.

Both of my kids went through this ackward phase around age 4 where they were genuinely happy, smily, but the minute a camera was pointing at them, they froze, and the camera captured a "fake" smile like in the one very well published photo of Caylee. My take, Caylee had a camera shoved in her face a whole lot more than either of my two kids ever did! If digital cameras had been invented then, and I had one, I bet I would captured fake smiles earlier. JMHO.

Exactly. My (very happy and much adored) kids have done those fake smiles for the camera too.

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

I have never read much at all into Caylee's pictures. I think she is a beautiful child who had LOTS of pictures taken of her. I can relate, my brother is a professional photographer and takes TONS of pictures of his kids. Some are awesome, but plenty have the fake smile. My niece in particular had the weirdest "Ok, smile!" smile. It actually looked alot like Caylee's smile in that bathing suit picture, she couldn't quite get the corners of her mouth go up. There isn't a thing wrong in my brother's home, it was just her "posed" smile.
I don't think Caylee's are any more than just her "posed" smile. i

 

[Lexington]

I thought the nursing home video of Caylee was adorable. She looked so proud of herself being such a good girl, sitting quietly on great grampa's lap, singing her song and reading her book. Cindy's heart must break every time she sees this video.

 

[fuzzykpd]

I think her smiles are genuine. In addition, the very fact that she has empathy with her great-grandfather and asks him with such concern in her little voice if he's tired shows that someone taught her how to love and feel for other people. That's a wonderful thing to see in a 2 year old.

I agree with the empathy part. I believe Caylee understood the plight of her grandfather and his inability to move much. It looked to me like she was feeling sorry for him and felt safe there and was trying to comfort him. she might have been told to stay there like that but her actions, relaxed state and looking up at him with affection, dont indicate a forced positioning.

Perhaps safe is a key word. With the constant control freaks of CA and KC pushing and pulling her, Grandpa probably seemed a safe, warm haven. For me, Empathy won out the day and shows she likely had more than the rest of the family.

 

[Indigo]

No I think these have been screened out but my child didn't have playmates either at that age.
I didn't take her to daycare
And I am an older mother so all my friends had their babies earlier on

And I don't believe that Caylee is visibly upset in the video that was posted earlier with her colouring in
We are not there to see the context of any of it
Indeed we don't even know who took it

Hi Jane,

There are other videos of Caylee where the videographer is totally silent. In one of them you can see Casey's reflection in the mirror at the beginning. It's definitely Casey's style...a contrast to the ones that George and Cindy take or participate in. In these they talk to Caylee and engage her--there's talking and laughing.

I can't imagine the context that would allow the person taking the video to ignore Caylee's question over and over again. Caylee is doing her best to ask the person behind the camera, "Is this 1-2-3 cheese? Is that what you want me to do?" At first she even answers herself.."No." But the video continues...and Caylee tries to engage the videographer over and over. She offers a crayon. No answer. "1-2-3 cheese?" she continues to ask.

Eventually she sighs and her face becomes crestfallen. I would love to see this tape evaluated by an expert in children's body language.

 

[Priester]

I find many of Caylee's smiles to be a mimic of KC's toothy "fake smile". Poor Caylee, she never had a chance in that family.

Exactly!

 

[Gracenote]

Don't be sorry, I agree with you. I could rip KC's face off. She can blame Zanny the nanny all she wants, but it wasn't Zanny the Nanny's car trunk that had evidence of a decomposing body in it, it was KC's. Everything about this case just makes me cry, but your post made me cry harder...

Thank you. You know, I never get angry, probably why I have ulcers LOL but it just came over me. That sweet old man who, as we know, hardly knows what day it is or the names of the people who attend to his daily needs, held that little girl so lovingly. Did he think it was his little Cindy again? Did he sing to Cindy when she was little?

But I am way OT now and I do apologize for that. To get back on the right topic, I think the pictures of Caylee just show a variety of 2 year old moods. I like the one someone has as part of their siggy slide show where she is younger and in her pjs and in a pink bed. So precious. I never got to have children. If KC didn't want her, I would have gladly taken her as my own. Any of us would have. But she chose another road.

 

[blackopsglock]

Ive got pics and videos of my little girl do all the things Caylee was doing in this video.Surprising how kids can be full of life and energy one second and almost lethargic the next.

When she is in the lap of the great grandfather she looks like she is both tired and maybe a little timid about hugging on her grandfather.Kids do that when they are in a situation like that.I see nothing to READ into here.

 

[seekjustice]

This video is heartwrenching. I don't know how anyone can watch it and not recognize its abusive element.

ITA. I understand the concept of being silent to capture special moments on video however this child is litterally begging and waiting for a response from her mother over and over....and she gets nothing, you can FEEL her disappointment, it is NOT normal it is incredibly frightening to me in a way.

As for the pictures it is hard to read into the forced smiles, etc. etc. But the truth is the eyes don't lie and I do believe there are many times where poor Caylee's eyes appear empty in these pics. I do think that the photos with Casey when Caylee is older appear to be very forced and unhappy not like some Caylee's earlier years. JMO