NEW Poll on Where Caylee Died.

[Micheline]

Just a scenario, not sure if I believe it myself.

Maybe it wasn't the first time Casey put duct tape over Caylee's mouth.

She pretended to be working at Universal to friends and family, and if anyone would hear Caylee while being on the phone with Casey she knew they would realise she was lying about being at the office and her whole web of lies would be exposed.

Caylee was only 2, maybe she had accepted the duct tape previous times, but not anymore, and then Casey tried to convince her to accept it by adding stickers.

Then things went wrong when Casey was on the phone while Caylee was in another area of the house, and she knew she had murdered her daughter.

 

[Bluebelle]

Casey's pings place her in or by her parent's house.
Tony thinks Casey was at her parent's house (according to what he said to SM). He said LE had tracked where Casey was and LE had told him that Casey was home.
I think Casey holed up in her room with Caylee. She talked. And she talked. If she could have gone to Tony's with Caylee she would have,IMO.
By a little after 4 p.m. the next day, Casey's problem was solved.
LE took Casey's pink tops, sunglasses, denim skirts and shoes to check them for stains or remnants of blood, brain spatter, prints and other possible forensic traces. They took them because if Casey followed her usual daily
pattern of pretending to go to work and George was correct about the clothes, Casey had changed Caylee.They were not investigating George when they took Caylee's clothes. Those clothes needed to be examined to see if they had been changed because they were messy. Like the smelly pants Cindy washed.

IMO

Great points & you could be right on the money! But I'm still struggling with some things, like an enraged Casey staying at home after Cindy tried to strangle her... hard to imagine Casey sitting in her room on the phone after the fist-shaking temper we saw at the jail & her threat to walk away because she was being questioned by her mother. So I’m just not sure she’d stay for Cindy’s grilling (and more possible strangling) about the money stolen from her grandparents. Also, I'm not very tech savvy, but is it possible her middle of the night calls to Tony were from somewhere like the empty school parking lot near the A’s or is that too far away? Anyways, now I just don’t know anymore – wish Casey would just tell us what happened (haha)…

 

[jjgram]

I live in Orlando and I remember last June the weathermen were saying something about breaking a record for the most consecutive days in June that reached above 90 degrees F. You have to live here to understand how hot it gets inside a closed vehicle. I think KS ROUTINELY pretended to leave for "work" but went back to house after G went to work. I can see KS driving off w/ Caylee, then looking in the rearview mirror at her and telling here to shut the f up, pulling over and getting tape from trunk and taping her mouth, then return to house when nobody home, and went in house to text or use pc and it took only 20 mins for her to pass away in the heat (happens to a few young mothers every summer here in Fla, but it usually takes an hour to die when you can breath through nose AND mouth). If it did happen this way, KS may have driven off in the car again and thought the baby was asleep in her carseat, then discovered her just before that flurry of phone calls that evening.
At least if the roll of tape was in the trunk it most likely had auto carpet fibers stuck on the sides and hopefully a fiber hitch-hiked on the edge of the piece that was torn off, and would tie it directly to the trunk.

I believe what FX WIZ says is very likely ! ! !
I believe that because KC is so selfish...and so easily distracted
to her CELL PHONE...
that when GA said good by them ... they walked out the door...
waited down the street... or at brother LA apt...
CAYLEE probably went to sleep in her car seat...
KC Returned to the house... Pulled into the Garage...
decided to just leave CAYLEE sleeping...
and went on into the house to do her Cell Phone ~ Texting..
and Computer business....
with the GARAGE DOOR Shut and the Car Doors Shut...
Certain Death to Little Angel Caylee ~ asleep = strapped into car seat!

then.... KC discovers....
then KC makes phone calls...
( STRANGE THAT SHE LEFT NO MESSAGES ON PARENTS PHONES ! ? ?)

then... decides to take dead Little Caylee into the back yard...
and pretend that the Heat ... caused Caylee's death in the back yard..
CHANGES her SICK SICK MIND>>>
and
grabs... Personal belongings... and Laundry hamper.... and trash bag..

thinking.... " WELL I'm Certainly NOT going to LOOSE My
Life... Over this Problem... CAYLEE is already Dead...
there is nothing ANYONE can do... and I don't want to RISK
being in any TROUBLE ! " this... is
sick...
SICK... and she probably says...
" I THINK I MADE THE RIGHT DECISION"

It is hard for me to imagine a Mother doing this !
But...
I'm Not certain... that KC really thought of herself as
Little ANGEL CAYLEE's Mother... just as the person who
carried her in her womb.. for a couple of months... since she
was only pregnant for 2 months... ( remember still a virgin at 7 months!)

It is not easy to type this.
It breaks my heart...
BUT I just want to
**** SEEK JUSTICE FOR LITTLE ANGEL ~ CAYLEE~
MURDERED at the young age of 2 years old... June 2008

Most Likely by this so called Mother - KC A

JMO
jjgram

*** God Saw the whole thing ! He is going to hold the Murder accountable ! Sooner or later ! ! !

 

[KenoshaKid]

.
CAYLEE probably went to sleep in her car seat...
KC Returned to the house... Pulled into the Garage...
decided to just leave CAYLEE sleeping...
and went on into the house to do her Cell Phone ~ Texting..
and Computer business....
with the GARAGE DOOR Shut and the Car Doors Shut...
Certain Death to Little Angel Caylee ~ asleep = strapped into car seat!

Did the cadaver dogs hit on the car seat? How long does a body have to be dead before the cadaver dogs will hit on a smell?

 

[cocoamom]

I think Caylee died right on KC's bed. It's been stated over and over that Caylee *needed* to sleep with KC. I'm guessing they had a routine of sorts to go down for a nap...while KC laid with her until she was "passed the F out"....then she got on her cell or the laptop or the A's computer.

She killed her while she was napping or right as she woke up. Everything at the crime scene would have been in KC's room.....and the lack of shoes is very telling!

I hadn't thought about IN KC'S BED before! This could explain KC sleeping on an inflatable mattress in her parent's room the entire time she was out of jail on bond...I saw this on TV but I don't remember what show LKL? Maybe she couldn't sleep in that room knowing Caylee died there - heck maybe Caylee was haunting her there!

I thought it strange that a 23 year old wanted to sleep in her parent's bedroom repeatedly !! Maybe this is a clue to the date Caylee died - what date did KC start sleeping at Tony's again? She never slept at home after that until out on bail right? Or maybe the night of July 15th when Cindy dragged her home from Tony's?...

 

[cocoamom]

On another note - if she duct taped her mouth before death and Caylee was conscious she would have had to bind her hands as well - Caylee would have tried to get the duct tape off to breathe or cry...

Maybe she succeeded in this in the past and KC made sure she couldn't get it off by wrapping around the whole head? aaaack - feeling ill again :banghead:

 

[Nedthan Johns]

IMO there is only 2 reasons for the duct tape.

1. to silence the child
2. to make it look like a kidnapping

Since I don't believe Casey ever thought Caylee would be found and the fact she put a heart sticker on the duct tape which she had to know would lead back to her. I go with #1. The duct tape was used to silence the child in the back of a hot trunk, who had already been put out with Cholorform

 

[Karen Anne RN]

I think KC killed Caylee in a rage ... that's my gut instinct, and so that likely makes the time of death the night before, after the alleged family fight. But then that throws out GA's point about seeing Caylee the next day.

~~respectfully snipped~~
I agree with you.

I have never believed George's story about seeing them on June 16th. I can see it in his eyes and his body language.

Very early on there was a report of blood being found on Caylee's headboard, and a hit by a cadaver dog in her room.

Just my two cents

 

[It's Not the Nanny]

I hadn't thought about IN KC'S BED before! This could explain KC sleeping on an inflatable mattress in her parent's room the entire time she was out of jail on bond...I saw this on TV but I don't remember what show LKL? Maybe she couldn't sleep in that room knowing Caylee died there - heck maybe Caylee was haunting her there!

I thought it strange that a 23 year old wanted to sleep in her parent's bedroom repeatedly !! Maybe this is a clue to the date Caylee died - what date did KC start sleeping at Tony's again? She never slept at home after that until out on bail right? Or maybe the night of July 15th when Cindy dragged her home from Tony's?...

EXACTLY! I would bet that KC never slept in her bedroom ever again after *that day*......definitely makes it all the more clear as to why she slept in her parents room after she was out on bond. It wasn't just the pictures and memories (those were all over the house), it's where the act took place.

My guess is that she duct taped her mouth as she woke and smothered her.

I have no idea what she did after that......the hits in the backyard, rigor mortis....how did she deal with all of that?

The fact of the matter is -- the habit of KC and Caylee co-sleeping made it very hard for anyone else to put Caylee down to sleep and to keep her asleep ... thus making it impossible for KC to have overnight sleepovers at her boyfriend's house.

We know that CA would call KC in the middle of the night to come home -- my guess is probably because Caylee would wake up and panic being alone .... crying....waking the entire house up. (after CA probably struggled to get her to go down in the first place without KC)

KC's bed and the routine she had set in place with Caylee (to make it easier in the beginning) was totally unbearable to her now. She couldn't leave!

Not that I believe much that CA says, but she has stated several times that KC and Caylee slept together every night. I have friends that co-sleep with their babies/children. It is not easily dealt with by someone else if Mommy isn't there!

 

[Indybabe]

You all are much too kind with your ideas of an accidental death, IMO. I just don't see how, if it was an accident, she has shown NO emotion over Caylee?? How/why would she just not break, and admit to an accident. Yes, she'd still be in trouble, but most likely not as much trouble as she is in. The stress of the facade, and the true distress of losing your child, would be enough to make anyone, WITH REAL EMOTIONS, break down and tell the truth.

The computer searches, the complete lack of emotion, the partying, and don't forget the famous "maybe I'm a spiteful " comment. Casey deliberately killed Caylee, probably in her (Casey's) room after the fight with Cindy, and has NO regrets in doing so. Just MO.

 

[texas77878]

Still sticking with the car. In the car proper, not the trunk. Haven't changed my mind from the start.

ITA. I think KC left the night of the 15th after the big blow out. Caylee must have been hysterical and wanted her Grandma, wanted her Grandma, WANTED HER GRANDMA! KC couldn't listen to that for even one more minute! She grabbed the duct tape that she stole from Amy and taped Caylee's mouth shut. I'm not sure if I think that she taped over her nose too which would sufficate her or Caylee was crying and her nose was running and she was paniced and couldn't catch her breath, either way the duct tape was what caused her death.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I just cannot imagine a child of that age being "quiet" in a room for that long. I truly believe that she was either dead before Casey took her out of the house, or very close to death en route to KC's car, the last time George "saw" them.

I don't think George saw her the 16th. I think that is another Anthony "script" LIE.

 

[natsound]

On another note - if she duct taped her mouth before death and Caylee was conscious she would have had to bind her hands as well - Caylee would have tried to get the duct tape off to breathe or cry...

Maybe she succeeded in this in the past and KC made sure she couldn't get it off by wrapping around the whole head? aaaack - feeling ill again :banghead:

cocoa, the documents state that it was a piece of duct tape affixed to the mouth area with hair on either end. No indication that it was wrapped around the skull.

 

[Jolynna]

I hadn't thought about IN KC'S BED before! This could explain KC sleeping on an inflatable mattress in her parent's room the entire time she was out of jail on bond...I saw this on TV but I don't remember what show LKL? Maybe she couldn't sleep in that room knowing Caylee died there - heck maybe Caylee was haunting her there!

I thought it strange that a 23 year old wanted to sleep in her parent's bedroom repeatedly !! Maybe this is a clue to the date Caylee died - what date did KC start sleeping at Tony's again? She never slept at home after that until out on bail right? Or maybe the night of July 15th when Cindy dragged her home from Tony's?...

According to phone pings, the first night Casey spent with Tony ALL NIGHT was June 16.

 

[CBTampa]

It is Not the Nanny

The fact of the matter is -- the habit of KC and Caylee co-sleeping made it very hard for anyone else to put Caylee down to sleep and to keep her asleep ... thus making it impossible for KC to have overnight sleepovers at her boyfriend's house.

We know that CA would call KC in the middle of the night to come home -- my guess is probably because Caylee would wake up and panic being alone .... crying....waking the entire house up. (after CA probably struggled to get her to go down in the first place without KC)

KC's bed and the routine she had set in place with Caylee (to make it easier in the beginning) was totally unbearable to her now. She couldn't leave!

Not that I believe much that CA says, but she has stated several times that KC and Caylee slept together every night. I have friends that co-sleep with their babies/children. It is not easily dealt with by someone else if Mommy isn't there!

Snipped for space: This is very possible. I have seen children like this. My daughter does not lay down with my grand daughter, but it she has such a routine...it is impossible for anyone else to do it. Children that young are into rituals.

 

[Jolynna]

Casey couldn't spend nights with anybody without making prior arrangements with Cindy. Cindy left for work by 7 a.m. so Casey had to come home at least by then. Anywhere Casey spent overnight had to welcome Caylee too. (Unless Cindy was free the next morning.)

Cindy believed Casey and Caylee were home and in bed before Cindy left for work on June 16.

IF Casey had stomped off with Caylee the night of June 15, Casey's phone log would show calls and messages from Cindy that night and the next morning. It doesn't. Cindy for sure would have answered the phone immediately the next day to make sure Caylee was O.K. She didn't.

As I said, Tony said Casey was home June 15 into the wee hours of June 16. I am SURE Casey bitterly told him on the phone how much she HATED being in THAT house. I also think Casey was begging Tony to let her come over with Caylee. I am sure she was spewing venom about her parents trying to get Tony's sympathy so he would change his mind about Caylee staying over. It looks like she was working on it until 3 a.m. without hardly taking a breath.

I don't think Casey had all that much gas in her car to waste running her air conditioner all night sitting in her car.

JMO

 

[It's Not the Nanny]

Casey couldn't spend nights with anybody without making prior arrangements with Cindy. Cindy left for work by 7 a.m. so Casey had to come home at least by then. Anywhere Casey spent overnight had to welcome Caylee too. (Unless Cindy was free the next morning.)

Cindy believed Casey and Caylee were home and in bed before Cindy left for work on June 16.

IF Casey had stomped off with Caylee the night of June 15, Casey's phone log would show calls and messages from Cindy that night and the next morning. It didn't. Cindy for sure would have answered the phone immediately the next day to make sure Caylee was O.K. She didn't.

As I said, Tony said Casey was home June 15 into the wee hours of June 16. I am SURE Casey bitterly told him on the phone how much she HATED being in THAT house. I also think Casey was begging Tony to let her come over with Caylee. I am sure she was spewing venom about her parents trying to get Tony's sympathy so he would change his mind about Caylee staying over. It looks like she was working on it until 3 a.m. without hardly taking a breath.

I don't think Casey had all that much gas in her car to waste running her air conditioner all night sitting in her car.

JMO

Totally agree!

The pings support it. It's not rocket science.

Maybe we will never know EXACTLY the time of death but it's safe to say Caylee was in the house the night of the 15th and well into the next afternoon. I find it very hard to believe that KC carried out a stiff and dead Caylee to her car pretending to go to work.

One of the most telling statements of all was her comment to GA that she and Caylee would NOT be back that night. (and we all know Caylee wasn't welcome at TonE's!)

I think she stated her case with TonE all night on the phone on the 15th....she had JUST had a major blow out with her Mom and she needed to vent..... TonE listened. I'm sure KC spewed all sorts of lies and asked if she could come and stay with him "for a few days" and that her parents were "crazy" and she & Caylee needed to get out of there.

I am literally on pins and needles waiting for TonE's interview about that night's phone conversation. It will tell us SO MUCH. It's a HUGE missing puzzle piece!

Did KC say she would be over the next day and after she got Caylee situated with a "Nanny"???

(betting so!)

 

[Rumpole]

After another 2 months, and several document dumps, I am sticking to my deduction that Caylee died in the trunk of KC's Pontiac (25% on this poll).
This is my conclusion based on all I have heard so far, especially the forernsic evidence report on human decomposition in the trunk.
Bringing together what other testimony and circumstantial evidence that has been released so far, I think Caylee died in the trunk "overnight", the night that KC escaped to Al's.(16th), but later so the actual date of date of death was 17th.

 

[Imbackon]

After another 2 months, and several document dumps, I am sticking to my deduction that Caylee died in the trunk of KC's Pontiac (25% on this poll).
This is my conclusion based on all I have heard so far, especially the forernsic evidence report on human decomposition in the trunk.
Bringing together what other testimony and circumstantial evidence that has been released so far, I think Caylee died in the trunk "overnight", the night that KC escaped to Al's.(16th), but later so the actual date of date of death was 17th.

Your thinking alligns exactly with mine.
This is what I wrote back when we had a poll earlier and there has been no reason to change my thoughts on this:

Died 16th, Disposed 18/19.

I think all the calls to CA/GA at 4 pm-ish on the 16th was a desperate bid to see if grandma/pa would babysit, despite their fight on the 15th.

When she couldn't get ahold of them (or they wouldn't answer), she decided to use the chloroform (which may not have been the first time), and that night when she and Tony went to get movies Caylee was probably out cold in the trunk. Perhaps, choroform was for the quick knockout, but maybe some pills/cold meds were given to her to keep her down. It is the combination of drugs that probably killed her that evening while in the trunk.

She discovered late that night or in the early morning that she was dead and disposed of her temporarally in the A's backyard on the 17th. She went back the next day on the 18th (shovel day), and disposed of her either that day or in the early morning hours of the 19th. So decomp was at that point entered into the car at 2.5 days roughly. There is nothing to say that she couldn't have had 1/2 decomp prior to the 2.5 day mark, just that the makeup of the gases, were gases that are produced by a corpse at about 2.5 days.

 

[shadowraiths]

You all are much too kind with your ideas of an accidental death, IMO. I just don't see how, if it was an accident, she has shown NO emotion over Caylee?? How/why would she just not break, and admit to an accident. Yes, she'd still be in trouble, but most likely not as much trouble as she is in. The stress of the facade, and the true distress of losing your child, would be enough to make anyone, WITH REAL EMOTIONS, break down and tell the truth.

The computer searches, the complete lack of emotion, the partying, and don't forget the famous "maybe I'm a spiteful *****" comment. Casey deliberately killed Caylee, probably in her (Casey's) room after the fight with Cindy, and has NO regrets in doing so. Just MO.

I am less inclined to put a lot of stock in her emotional presentation, as people respond to tragedies in different ways. Consider the Lindy Chamberlain case, where she was convicted bc the jurors felt she did not show the appropriate emotion. Her case was later overturned bc it turned out she was telling the truth. A dingo had, indeed grabbed her baby from the tent.

That said, I have long felt KC murdered Caylee. For this one reason. That, based upon where the dogs hit, and the smell in the car. While I can see an accident and a young mother panicking, what I don't see is a young mother being able to dig up their child's remains, transporting them elsewhere, and then driving a car that has the stench of death. That in and of itself, pretty much sealed my opinion.