The Suburban memorial site is up for sale. **UPDATE SOLD** OR NOT?

[gardenhart]

It doesn't matter what they call it on a zoning map, if it's a wetland, it would fall under federal wetlands regulations.
http://www.wetlands.com/regs/tlpge01a.htm

And if it's in floodplain, those floodplain maps are done by the feds too. Any locality that wants them changed has to go through a lengthy procedure to get that approved by FEMA.

Here's the floodplain map, set to show both the existing floodplain and a proposed amended map. I'm having a devil of a time trying to match up the location. Perhaps someone with better eyesight than me can do that? If the floodplain settings don't come through, just click on the floodplain folder and then click on existing and proposed.
http://ocgis1.ocfl.net/imf/imf.jsp?site=orangecFL

As I recall it's more of an issue of getting insurance or building or retrofitting structures on stilts etc. It's probably an expensive proposition to build in a floodplain. Wetlands are fairly narrowly defined, and this isn't exactly part of the Everglades. Land can be filled in and swamps can be drained, it's often more an issue of expense v.s. finding a more suitable lot.

Not sure if I got the parcel location right, but the lot I think its use is presently is zoned as "VACANT HOME OWNERS ASSOCIATION"-- whatever that means, and not "CONSERVATION / WETLANDS" or "SUBMERGED" or with various other hydrological merits.


Although this link also says CONSERVATION

http://www.ocpafl.org/pls/webappI/get_parcel_master?pid=302313129000002&query_data=1111111P

 

[mitzi]

I'm thinking it could possibly be the school board buying the property, as they already own the vacant wooded property next to this. Would make sense, keep it all together.

Or the City of Orlando, who owns the big wooded vacant property next to the school's.

Hendricks also owns the vacant wooded property across the street. Wonder if this is a package deal?

I doubt if it is the school board...in these economic times, most school districts are having trouble meeting their budgets, and are cutting activities, certain classes and laying off teachers.

 

[Friday]

:clap: Very well said, and I couldn't agree more!

In regards to the part of your post that I placed in bold..........Cindy, George, and Lee missed a golden opportunity to thank everyone......LE, TM, all the searchers, RK, and those who sent monetary donations.........at Caylee's memorial service. They each should have expressed their thanks to all who helped in the search and recovery of Caylee. This is something that needed to be done and they should have devoted a goodly portion of their comments to thanking everyone. Yet, instead, they made comments honoring Casey, the child's murderer.

Caylee's memorial service was a missed opportunity to bring the community together, to thank everyone, and apologize for any rude behavior on their part. It would have gone a long way to making amends. It would have an impact on the public's perception of the family.
I join many here in saying I will be very disappointed if it turns out that the Anthonys or one of their associates purchased this piece of property.

Re my bold, you're so right. I'm sure most of the world who watched that memorial expected that "nicety" from the A's and then felt that it was deliberately and coldly withheld when it wasn't forthcoming.

I really like and admire Shirley P after reading her LE interview and her e-mails to her sister. She displayed love, understanding, forthrightness, and a wealth of good common sense. Because she raised and approved of Cindy, I just have to believe Cindy completely snapped on July 15, and that the Cindy we see and know now is not the same woman Shirley has always known. In fact, Shirley was so horrified by Cindy's antagonistic behavior during the summer that she e-mailed Cindy a letter to tell Cindy that she was acting crazy and alienating everyone (or words to that effect).

I dunno. I really don't. I should stop trying to understand the A's.

 

[sumbunny]

Cindy is not the type to spend money on anything that she does not directly benefit her. It is part of her personality type. Heck, she didn't even spend a penny on anything to do with Caylee after she died.....no funeral, no burial (cost money for that). The memorial and flowers (huge amount) were paid for with donations. Oh, yes, she did spend money on jewelry for ashes but that is adornment. She has got very angry at anybody who received ANY money on Caylee. I suggest it was propelled by jealousy.

Her type never admits they're wrong. That is the reason you have seen nothing of her after the body was found. You saw her in a public arena surrounded ONLY by people she allowed in to see her...."Only the pure of heart may attend"...her words...Grrrrrrrrr.

She is keeping a low profile to not enrage anyone...that way people may remain sympathetic and send money. I doubt she would spend money on the land....UNLESS there is an idea to raise money. I have no idea how it could be a money making piece of property....have to think about that!

Thats easy, she could sell plaques to other grieving families who have lost their children.

all proceeds going to the anthony foundation ..of course

 

[Gypsy Road]

Um....am I missing something? It's not sold YET is it? The deal isn't done is it?

 

[MAMABEAR]

I can't help thinking that CA might have been happier if poor little Caylee had never been found. She could have gone on with the search to find a living child, could have gone on insisting KC was innocent (of course she does anyway, but it must sound pretty thin even in her own ears since last Dec 11th).

I don't really care anymore what they do with that piece of land, although I would have wanted to see it used as a memorial garden for all missing children (and I realise a lot of other decent concerned people would prefer it not be used that way).

I do wish there were some some meaningful site though, if not this place, then some other, that could be a park set aside as a place to remember missing children. Really, when no remains are recovered, families wind up with no 'place' to remember their children... no headstones to look at, no place to lay flowers.

In little Caylees case, while she is no longer missing, there is soon not going to be a place to go to honour her memory at all. But perhaps it is time to let it go, take down the little roadside memorial site, and get on with the trial. It is just that this feels to me like once again the victim will soon be forgotten, all eyes on her mother and her family and their legal problems, and Caylee will be lost once again, this time forever.

I feel where you are right now. I have felt bad for 2 days now. I think it has to do with the faze of grief, so to speak. We are all still morning Caylee but we are moving on which is what we are possed to do.

We have sit here and watched and felt since day 31. Lil Caylee isn't lost, she is in God's arms right now-----safe and sound. So we don't have to worry-----she will always be there for you and me and the rest of the world to remember the sweetness of her and hold her in our hearts.We got it covered.

I have felt bad for 2 days now and after reading your post I think I have been goin thru a grief faze. Like it is the point of "moving on" type of thang. See, I don't think the A's went thru a "normal" grief period like the rest of us did/do. KC got in the way for them. I don't see how they can ever live a normal life again. Well, not that their life was normal to began with. I don't know. Can't figure out the A's and not so sure it would be healthy for me to even try.

Sorry, OT real bad.

 

[Friday]

Boy, this is why you are an author and I'm not! Awesome post!:clap:

:blowkiss:

 

[mitzi]

I feel where you are right now. I have felt bad for 2 days now. I think it has to do with the faze of grief, so to speak. We are all still morning Caylee but we are moving on which is what we are possed to do.

We have sit here and watched and felt since day 31. Lil Caylee isn't lost, she is in God's arms right now-----safe and sound. So we don't have to worry-----she will always be there for you and me and the rest of the world to remember the sweetness of her and hold her in our hearts.We got it covered.

I have felt bad for 2 days now and after reading your post I think I have been goin thru a grief faze. Like it is the point of "moving on" type of thang. See, I don't think the A's went thru a "normal" grief period like the rest of us did/do. KC got in the way for them. I don't see how they can ever live a normal life again. Well, not that their life was normal to began with. I don't know. Can't figure out the A's and not so sure it would be healthy for me to even try.

Sorry, OT real bad.

:blowkiss:

 

[Friday]

Who said the residents don't want it there? I can assure you there are some who would love to see it bought by LP and a nice place established.

The only ones who don't want anyone to remember Caylee are the Anthonys because they don't want people to believe their daughter is a murdering psychopath.

I think there was a bit of an uproar from the neighborhood association a couple weeks ago over LP's proposal. IIRC, their objections were over the amount of visitor traffic it would bring through their small neighborhood and onto a road that dead ends at their children's school. :blowkiss:

 

[Friday]

A bit off topic, but then again, not really. I'm originally from a small town in upstate New York. In the neighboring town, 7 miles away, a horrible axe murder happened in 1918. A farmer and his daughter were murdered by the hired hand, while the farmer's wife was caring for her elderly mother who was ill, a mile or two away. The daughter's cousin was in the home and was injured and taken hostage by the hired hand. He took her with him as he made his escape, and the first chance she had she escaped and alerted authorities. He was captured the next day.

The house where the axe murders happened is known as "spooky", and has been passed down through a few generations by the couple who bought the house from the farmer's widow. Recently, the local newspaper did a story on the house and related the story of the murders that happened there. It will forever be known for the terrible axe murders.

I imagine this will be the case with the spot where Caylee's remains were found. People living there will remember, and pass it on to their children, and it will always be known for what happened there.

I'm sure you're right. FWIW, in Texas when you put a house up for sale, you're obliged to complete a form regarding any known defects or past problems with the house. One of the questions on it is whether or not anyone has died there of other than natural causes. Evidently there are a lot of people who don't want anything to do with a home where a violent or "unnatural" death has occurred. I can't blame them.

 

[Muzikman]

It doesn't matter what they call it on a zoning map, if it's a wetland, it would fall under federal wetlands regulations.
http://www.wetlands.com/regs/tlpge01a.htm

And if it's in floodplain, those floodplain maps are done by the feds too. Any locality that wants them changed has to go through a lengthy procedure to get that approved by FEMA.

Here's the floodplain map, set to show both the existing floodplain and a proposed amended map. I'm having a devil of a time trying to match up the location. Perhaps someone with better eyesight than me can do that? If the floodplain settings don't come through, just click on the floodplain folder and then click on existing and proposed.
http://ocgis1.ocfl.net/imf/imf.jsp?site=orangecFL

Here's one I did a while ago. Just a small part of the property is a flood zone - mainly the part where Caylee was placed.

 

[ecs5298]

Here's one I did a while ago. Just a small part of the property is a flood zone - mainly the part where Caylee was placed.

I notice, thought, that all the residences on the "east" side of Hopespring are in the flood plain as well.

I'm assuming there is a difference between being in a flood plain (meaning your mortgage company may require you to have flood insurance) and being a designated wetland where you can't build without approval.

 

[Gypsy Road]

I notice, thought, that all the residences on the "east" side of Hopespring are in the flood plain as well.

I'm assuming there is a difference between being in a flood plain (meaning your mortgage company may require you to have flood insurance) and being a designated wetland where you can't build without approval.

Here in north Florida after hurricane Ivan, area flood maps had to be redrawn, and anything NEW that is built within new flood zones have to be built to higher building codes (and usually have to be built up on pilings so that your building is up high so that the water washes under it), and yes insurance rates also went WAY up in these zones, sometimes doubling. I can imagine that this land is going to be very expensive to develop if indeed the buyer decides to develop it. Also, in a lot of cases - you simply can not get approval to build on wetlands. My husband is a developer and has run across this numerous times.

 

[Theonly1]

Info about Residential Permits and Wetlands in Orange County, Florida:

"CONSERVATION AREAS
Wetlands serve natural biological functions by providing habitat for wetland-dependent wildlife, recycling nutrients from runoff, supplying natural erosion and sedimentation control, and providing areas of natural aquifer recharge. Wetlands are essential to
flood control. A wetland may be associated with a water body, such as a lake or stream, or it may be isolated. The existence of a wetland is determined by the soil types, vegetation, and hydrological conditions in the area and sometimes may appear to be dry land. For some properties, a wetland or upland area may have an easement placed on it to ensure its future protection.

This information may be found on your property survey, plat, or deed. Any activity within or adjacent to any wetland, such as clearing or disturbing vegetation or soil, is restricted. Please contact EPD and FDEP for specific permitting requirements and in-depth information on wetlands." [Red is mine. Language is from Orange County website]

 

[gardenhart]

I notice, thought, that all the residences on the "east" side of Hopespring are in the flood plain as well.

I'm assuming there is a difference between being in a flood plain (meaning your mortgage company may require you to have flood insurance) and being a designated wetland where you can't build without approval.

There are different floodplain designations, depending on how often and how bad an area floods and in most areas, different requirements and restrictions on development depending on those. For example, development might be allowed with certain requirements in a 500 year floodplain, with more restrictions in a 100 year floodplain and prohibited in areas that flood more frequently. Those designations are based on averages. I've known of areas in both designations where I've lived that flooded every year for three years.

Upshot of all that geeky, more than you wanted to know detail is those houses might be in an area that doesn't flood as severely or often or might have been built before that area was included in a floodplain or might even have been built before there were even laws in place to restrict building in floodplains. I doubt those houses predate any kind of floodplain laws, though.

Do you know whether your map was based on the current floodplain map or the proposed amended one?

 

[gardenhart]

Here in north Florida after hurricane Ivan, area flood maps had to be redrawn, and anything NEW that is built within new flood zones have to be built to higher building codes (and usually have to be built up on pilings so that your building is up high so that the water washes under it), and yes insurance rates also went WAY up in these zones, sometimes doubling. I can imagine that this land is going to be very expensive to develop if indeed the buyer decides to develop it. Also, in a lot of cases - you simply can not get approval to build on wetlands. My husband is a developer and has run across this numerous times.

Thanks, Gypsy Road. I was wondering too whether zoning restrictions would allow a park or playground to be built in a floodplain?

My point with all this floodplain/wetlands stuff is there are probably a lot of restrictions on what could be done with that land.

 

[whiteangora]

Flipping the coin, are you a resident of the neighborhood? If not, why would you discourage someone from building a playground in a neighborhood you don't live in when the residents have not said they don't want a playground?

I was almost tempted to break in the 'Thanks' button and use it for the first time, but this deserves so much more than just the click of a convenient button. :blowkiss:
I'm beginning to doubt the property is even sold, it seems Conway has learned the art of backwards talking from his clients.

 

[kageykaren]

Psssst, Mr. Conway--lean close so I can whisper this in your ear: IT'S NOT FOR THE ANTHONY'S!

I feel your analysis of CA is spot on about entitlement and creating a new reality for herself after her break from reality started on July 16. It is more apparent to me after all these months sluething that KC is a product of her enviroment to some degree and the comment of, "Like Mother Like Daughter" certainly applies here. What kind of grandmother sends a bear to a psychic to find her grandaughter but won't give an article of clothing to a trained search and rescue team like TM's. I'm so put off with CA and her grief stages.

 

[Muzikman]

<snip>
Do you know whether your map was based on the current floodplain map or the proposed amended one?

The map I posted is based on the current floodplain. The proposed one had the water line way back, in the dark blue area I think.

 

[Duelist Pearl]

My DH and I went on vacation to Vero Beach and last Tuesday he was nice enough to take me to the site where dear Caylee was found. The for sale sign was still up at that point. I have to say that both my DH and myself felt an incredible sadness as well as having the hair on our necks stand up the whole time we were there.