Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #4

[Bud]

Another shot in the dark here... Being that Lonnie knew a whole lot more than he revealed... is it possible either of them was related to him? Possibly a daughter? Did he have any sons? Was she perhaps a girlfriend that was messing around with 'Jock' and a relation of Lonnie's (nephew, son, grandson, etc.), who also knew where the gun was located, decided to teach them both a lesson and then confessed out of guilt to Lonnie? Perhaps the answer to this mystery is much simpler than it appears.

The whole key to this is Lonnie had the gun that killed them... he didn't kill them but obviously knew who did. Would you protect a family member for a certain 'indiscretion' - passion/jealousy killing (perhaps?) Would he protect a family member who killed them simply to rob them (I'd think probably not)? If someone he knew killed them, IMO he'd have to have some sort of internal justification system that allowed him to live with the knowledge of guilt and murder... perhaps he thought the murder was justified if it was a cheating girlfriend, etc. Remember this was 1976... many things have changed since then.

His wife was in the hospital so she'd have been unaware of much that was going on in the home. Are there any relatives of his that are still alive that were close with him back then? What about trucker buddies?

The fact he took this secret to the grave leads me to believe it was a family member or very close friend. Was the brother that gave him the gun (as a gift) living nearby? Is it common to give someone a well-used gun, with a spotty (and unknown) history, as a gift? Wouldn't you want to check it out beforehand so the recipient didn't get in trouble for past illegal activity involving said gun? I sure as heck wouldn't give someone I cared about a used gun whose history was unknown.

Everything points back to Lonnie and another family member or close friend of his.

IMO, it's possible at least one of the victims and the killer were locals and at least one of the victims knew their killer.

I could see this as an episode of Cold Case (which I love!).

Sorry to ramble on... :silenced:

 

[MaryLiz]

Another shot in the dark here... Being that Lonnie knew a whole lot more than he revealed... is it possible either of them was related to him? Possibly a daughter? Did he have any sons? Was she perhaps a girlfriend that was messing around with 'Jock' and a relation of Lonnie's (nephew, son, grandson, etc.), who also knew where the gun was located, decided to teach them both a lesson and then confessed out of guilt to Lonnie? Perhaps the answer to this mystery is much simpler than it appears.

The whole key to this is Lonnie had the gun that killed them... he didn't kill them but obviously knew who did. Would you protect a family member for a certain 'indiscretion' - passion/jealousy killing (perhaps?) Would he protect a family member who killed them simply to rob them (I'd think probably not)? If someone he knew killed them, IMO he'd have to have some sort of internal justification system that allowed him to live with the knowledge of guilt and murder... perhaps he thought the murder was justified if it was a cheating girlfriend, etc. Remember this was 1976... many things have changed since then.

His wife was in the hospital so she'd have been unaware of much that was going on in the home. Are there any relatives of his that are still alive that were close with him back then? What about trucker buddies?

The fact he took this secret to the grave leads me to believe it was a family member or very close friend. Was the brother that gave him the gun (as a gift) living nearby? Is it common to give someone a well-used gun, with a spotty (and unknown) history, as a gift? Wouldn't you want to check it out beforehand so the recipient didn't get in trouble for past illegal activity involving said gun? I sure as heck wouldn't give someone I cared about a used gun whose history was unknown.

Everything points back to Lonnie and another family member or close friend of his.

IMO, it's possible at least one of the victims and the killer were locals and at least one of the victims knew their killer.

I could see this as an episode of Cold Case (which I love!).

Sorry to ramble on... :silenced:

That's OK, sometimes you just have to sit here and type out all your thoughts to try to make any kind of sense of them. I've been away from this case for a while. I haven't done any research on it lately. I think I got burned out on it. But those are interesting observations you made. I have no doubt in my mind that Lonnie Henry knew who the murderer was. I agree..I don't think he did it but he was certainly protecting someone, possibly his son or maybe a nephew. I'm sure whoever he was protecting was related to him..he surely wouldn't have jeopardized himself like that to protect a friend or acquaintance.

I would love to see this case profiled on ANY TV show. I wrote America's Most Wanted, 48 Hours and Dateline. AMW sent me a postcard thanking me for writing and said they would consider profiling the case and get back with me but I never heard from them. I can't get a response from 48 Hours on ANY case I have written to them about, which has only been two. Dateline actually told me the case was too old?? That didn't make sense. I think the reason shows don't want to do an episode on this is because the victims are unidentified and there is no conclusion to it yet. I still think it needs to be put "out there" on some TV program to give it some exposure.

 

[kitbits]

That's OK, sometimes you just have to sit here and type out all your thoughts to try to make any kind of sense of them. I've been away from this case for a while. I haven't done any research on it lately. I think I got burned out on it. But those are interesting observations you made. I have no doubt in my mind that Lonnie Henry knew who the murderer was. I agree..I don't think he did it but he was certainly protecting someone, possibly his son or maybe a nephew. I'm sure whoever he was protecting was related to him..he surely wouldn't have jeopardized himself like that to protect a friend or acquaintance.

I would love to see this case profiled on ANY TV show. I wrote America's Most Wanted, 48 Hours and Dateline. AMW sent me a postcard thanking me for writing and said they would consider profiling the case and get back with me but I never heard from them. I can't get a response from 48 Hours on ANY case I have written to them about, which has only been two. Dateline actually told me the case was too old?? That didn't make sense. I think the reason shows don't want to do an episode on this is because the victims are unidentified and there is no conclusion to it yet. I still think it needs to be put "out there" on some TV program to give it some exposure.

Cambria--I wonder why there is no interest either...and in my mind, the fact that they are unidentified makes it even more intriguing! & yep, so what if it's old--they still need to be id'd & getting them 'out there' is probably the best way to accomplish it.

 

[justthinkin]

iceni69 may have been a shipbuilder. Can't say for sure if the person who left those comments was the same person, but I did find out the shipbuilder was in his 70s, and had died. Someone else had taken over his business. I know I meant to write to that person, but will have to go back through my outgoing emails to see if I did. I will post a follow up on this shortly.

 

[Bud]

iceni69 may have been a shipbuilder. Can't say for sure if the person who left those comments was the same person, but I did find out the shipbuilder was in his 70s, and had died. Someone else had taken over his business. I know I meant to write to that person, but will have to go back through my outgoing emails to see if I did. I will post a follow up on this shortly.

Who was the shipbuilder in his 70's? What does he have to do with this story? I don't recall a shipbuilder.

 

[defender123]

Just to add my 2 cents..
I have followed this case for a few years now.
Maybe one of the reasons the KOA guy never came forward sooner is because (1 Month)
other folks at the camp ground could have given valuable information and he waited for them to leave..The camp ground would have been fairly busy that time of year..
Just a thought.

 

[justthinkin]

Who was the shipbuilder in his 70's? What does he have to do with this story? I don't recall a shipbuilder.

I refer you to these links:
http://www.tennantdesign.co.nz/

http://www.tennantdesign.co.nz/index.php?page=iceni---69

If you want some background, start reading from post #26 on this thread.

I believe elliottness was the poster who originally brought up a reference to whom the user iceni69 might be, and from comments left at the foot of an article cited by Cambria, formerly known as Marybeth, and in reference to this case. Of course, who iceni69 is or was is just speculation. With such an unusual "handle," the user could have been a quack or else it's possible that "iceni69" meant something to him. All this proves is that that iceni69 did mean something to the dec'd. ship designer. It doesn't tie him to this case. It just opens the possibility that either he was the user or else someone who knew of the iceni69 ferry could have been the user who claimed to know who the mystery couple was, and that they weren't murdered in 1976.

IIRC there was some discussion about someone, not from WS, thinking the mystery couple was another missing couple, but they didn't fit. I believe it was mentioned that the other missing couple may have been whom the user iceni69 was referring to. I can't think of the names of the other missing couple, but that discussion maybe found earlier on this thread.

In addition, I could not find where I wrote to the person who took over the dec'd. ship designers business. I was just going to inquire if he might know if the designer had ever used the name iceni69 on the internet or if that person may have known of a couple who'd gone missing while sailing, and had spoken to him about it. I could not find where I'd sent it in my records so as far as I know no follow up has been done on that.

 

[Mysterylover]

RE: Malcolm Tenant Multihull Design Ltd - Iceni - 69

Very Interesting find. Thanks!

I have always felt Iceni-69 knew who the couple was!

If he did know them, did our Jock own or sail a catamaran /yacht, for themselves or some else?
How would he have met/known them?
Wealthy people like this person don't usually spend their valuable time being 'trolls' on web sites..
Who was his other 2 friends that formed the company?
Just wondering How Iceni-69 died?

Quote:
First registered as a company in 1963 - forty-five years later we are still going strong.

I owned my first catamaran in 1959 and have subsequently built a number of boats.
In 1966, along with two friends, I formed GTF International Catamarans, designing and building an International A-Class catamaran to the then new International catamaran rule.

 

[justthinkin]

Mysterylover, the ship designer died in an accident at his home, Sunday, May 11, 2008. Looks like he designed everything from small catamarans on up.

 

[Mysterylover]

Sorry to hear the gentleman has died. Did he live in New Zealand?
In 43 years he designed and produced 264 designs and they have been built in over 53 countries.
This means that there are thousands of his boats out there in the real world.

I would like to know how many of his designed catamarans were docked/anchored off the coast of S.C. or Georgia, in the summer of 1976?
How many had been sold and built and to whom up until 1976?
Any S.C.or Ga. newspaper articles about catamarans from 1975-1977..

defender123, I agree 100% with your theory quoted below:

I just want to add one thought to your theory, that the killers needed TIME to Sale/move/change titles/make bill of sales/etc... what they murdered the couple to get....that's why he waited so long to come forward..
quote:
Maybe one of the reasons the KOA guy never came forward sooner is because (1 Month)
other folks at the camp ground could have given valuable information and he waited for them to leave....The camp ground would have been fairly busy that time of year..

 

[little726]

Here is a Brian Page, missing from Oregon in 1975.

http://www.missingkids.com/missingk...NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US

 

[Mysterylover]

The following has been snipped from post #22, phenolred:
quote:
So here is the BIGGY and actually what led me to research along these lines. I was looking up drug smuggling in the 1970's and I found out that there was a BIG DRUG SMUGGLING Ring among some of the MAJOR racing teams in this racing series.

Yep the IMSA had a big drug scandal and people went to jail, there were attempted murders etc etc. They were smuggling drugs to finance their racing teams.
These were rich and powerful people. Of of the major players was a man named John Paul Sr.
The man the actually found the racing series even SAID IMSA COULD STAND FOR THE "INTERNATIONAL DRUG SMUGGLERS ASSOCIATION".......

The 46-year-old Paul, who also faces Federal drug charges that he conspired to import 200,000 tons of Colombian marijuana into the United States from 1975 to 1983, is accused of shooting a Federal drug witness at a Florida boat dock in 1983.
March 30, 1986
In the early 1980s, IMSA sportscar racing was rife with drug scandals. These involved John Paul Sr and Jr, Randy Lanier and the Whittington Brothers. John Paul Jr was jailed from June 1986 to October 1988 after pleading guilty to racketeering, while John Paul Sr was given a 25 year sentence after pleading guilty to importing marijuana, tax evasion, possession of a false passport and shooting a federal witness. John Paul Sr had shot Stephen Carson, a witness in the Federal inquiry on narcotics smuggling in north Florida, on April 19 1982 at a boat ramp. Carson actually survived 5 bullets at close range and it was his testimony that made for a quick conviction.

end of quote

My response to this is the following:
Very interesting and we need to do some research on names and places..IF any are tied to the Sumter area and our Jock case.

I was talking to an older 'friend' about this case recently...
IF they remembered correctly about the case in S.C./Ga/Fla...., it was big...a sheriff was involved also, and the drugs was being brought in by large boats and switched to Winnebago RV'S at one time...

It would be interesting to know what type of boats imported the drugs.

It only makes sense, someone had to drive the Winnebago's once the drugs was loaded into them. The RV's had to be parked somewhere...where better when wanting to not to be noticed, than a KOA?

 

[elliottness]

Sorry that I have not been as active on this forum, but I have been reading the posts and haven't forgotten this case. As for the "iceni69" name I found that name on eBay a few months ago and it was a user who lives in the UK. Could be coincidence. I'm not sure.

Just thinking about the dental records made me wonder about the age of "Jock." Most people under the age of 30 do not have very extensive dental work. Also, were there any other missing persons around that time who had similar dental work? Call me crazy, but I think that the dental information is a key in identifying Jock. And one other thing I'd like to ask is about fingerprints. I have heard that fingerprint ID can be even more reliable than DNA. Is there any information on the fingerprints of the deceased?

 

[elliottness]

Is there anyway to see that person's other comments on that site? Some comment systems allow anyone to see a users comment history. At least we'd know when they became a member, how many comments they left, etc. If they registered and then left just those two comments then possibly they might know something.

However, IMO, that person knows nothing of the case. Just a silly troll looking for attention. Weird. I can't imagine someone with this kind of information would be silly enough to leave such comments knowing they can be traced via their IP address. Perhaps someone should contact this person and ask them a few questions.

It's a fact they were killed in 1976, true? They were found in 1976 and their bodies hadn't gone through significant decomposition. They found witnesses who heard the gunshots that killed them, correct?

** I just clicked on the user and sure enough those were the only two comments that user has left on the site. It would be interesting to know when they signed up for that account.

After researching this I don't buy that they were not killed in 1976. The fact that their bodies hadn't gone through significant decomposition proves that.

 

[defender123]

Sorry that I have not been as active on this forum, but I have been reading the posts and haven't forgotten this case. As for the "iceni69" name I found that name on eBay a few months ago and it was a user who lives in the UK. Could be coincidence. I'm not sure.

Just thinking about the dental records made me wonder about the age of "Jock." Most people under the age of 30 do not have very extensive dental work. Also, were there any other missing persons around that time who had similar dental work? Call me crazy, but I think that the dental information is a key in identifying Jock. And one other thing I'd like to ask is about fingerprints. I have heard that fingerprint ID can be even more reliable than DNA. Is there any information on the fingerprints of the deceased?

I so agree with you about the teeth.That is really expensive work for say, a young man.
Sounds more like he was at least 35 or so.
And have wondered if maybe the female was (underage).
Just a thought.

 

[Fukiyama]

Hello. I've been lurking and watching the thread and then forum on the SC couple for awhile. I wanted to ask a question.

Did anything ever come of the Regina angle with the doctor named Percieval?

 

[defender123]

Just maybe when he said his dad was a well known Dr. He could have been a veterinarian.
They were both shot in the throat, is this not a signiture to say (you will never talk again)?

 

[Bud]

After researching this I don't buy that they were not killed in 1976. The fact that their bodies hadn't gone through significant decomposition proves that.

:waitasec:

Maybe the creepy iceni69 poster knows of two different, but similar, murders that were not committed in 1976 and is confusing them...

Perhaps they are connected to these two.

 

[elliottness]

Just maybe when he said his dad was a well known Dr. He could have been a veterinarian.
They were both shot in the throat, is this not a signiture to say (you will never talk again)?

I doubt it. They were both shot in the head and neck, execution-style. Does anyone know from the case what position the bodies were lying when they were found? I've only seen one crime scene photo where the two victims were lying on their backs.

 

[elliottness]

I've been reading through some of the old pages of this thread and my hunch tells me that I am 99.9% sure that the unidentified male's name IS "Jock" or "Jacques" and his initials are JPF. I am still awaiting word from my contact in Canada who works for the Canadian Medical Hall of Fame. Perhaps no news is good news. If I had to make a guess I would say that Fortier is the likeliest connection to Jock/Jacques. If not, it's got to be another prominent doctor in Canada at that time whose last name began with the letter F.