Casey & Family Psychological Profile #8

[Brini]

I'm going to start by saying I expect to receive alot of dissenting opinions but... I'm putting it out there anyway...

I don't believe that KC is a "true sociopath" at least not clinically speaking... She does exhibit quite a few of the traits associated with sociopathy, narcissism, depression , anxiety and dare I say it? PTSD.... I'm sorry, but she does...

True sociopaths are born that way and the evidence will present itself in early childhood and before the age of 15. As far as I can tell, and please someone correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that KC was able to express positive emotions and feelings for people, was very well behaved in school, never in any trouble and made good grades... until she dropped out right before graduation in 2004. I would really love to know the reason why she did because I see that as the jumping off point for the buildup that had been occurring for years. [WARING SIGN #1]

Sociopathic behavior (along with the other myriad of potential KC diagnosis) is a learned response. KC was raised in a home with a mother that has been described as having & has on several occasions exhibited the following characteristics in public; inconsistent maternal enforcement of rules, loud arguments between the parents, low maternal educational aspirations for the child, maternal difficulty controlling anger toward the child, maternal possessiveness, maternal use of guilt to control the child, maternal verbal abuse, paternal assistance to the child's mother, and paternal fulfillment of the role of father. (I posted that description earlier) [WARING SIGN #2]

It is my contention that something happened in early 2004 to cause KC to quit school just shy of graduation and then find herself pregnant within 6 months or so.... I suspect the pressure to be perfect was finally building and KC was rebelling a little more at a time. My gut tells me that KC was raped either by placing herself into a compromising situation (and feels responsible) or she truly was forcibly raped... either way it would be traumatic enough to possibly cause PSTD and get the ball rolling with her new persona. [WARING SIGN #3]

Regardless of whether or not she was raped, it is evident that she did not want to be pregnant. I would not doubt that she denied to herself that she was pregnant long before she finally had no other choice but to admit it to her parents. She confessed to at least one friend that she did not want the baby and wanted to give it up for adoption but that her mother was making her have the baby. Yet another example of CA's controlling behavior and now KC is really trapped with her parents. I'll go ahead and now say, that in and of itself may have caused some PTSD... throw in some major hormone changes before and after birth (PPD) (especially in that house) and we (the outside observers) could pull up our lawn chairs and wait for the top to fly off the pressure cooker. [WARING SIGN # 4 & #5]

However.... KC wasn't fully cooked yet.... she had a relationship with Jesse that would have provided an escape for her but that relationship failed and it seems that point was yet another stepping stone in her downward spiral... from what I can tell it seems that time frame corresponds to when the excessive lying, stealing from family and promiscuity really started to take off... the sociopathic/narcissistic/adjustment disorder with mixed anxiety and depression KC was emerging from her cocoon.. [WARNING SIGNS #6, #7 & #8]

Jesse reports KC having a seizure (I know alot about this has been discussed) but random seizures (with no prior history) can be another warning sign from your body that something is wrong in your brain, chemically and/or structuarly something isn't working right, add that to the other stressers in her life and the disorder pot starts boiling even harder. [WARNING SIGN #9]

I know that she told two different friend on two separate occasions that she wanted to check herself into a mental hospital, saying she was depressed and felt trapped. I believe the last call like that was in December/January 2008(again, correct me if I am wrong). [WARNING SIGNS #10 & #11]

I believe by February 2008 KC was beginning to fantasize about her parents being out of her life and possibly Caylee as well.(if only to spite her mother).. By March 2008 (when the computer searches began) she was starting to consider it even more and was looking for ways to accomplish the task when the day would come. [WARNING SIGN #12 - in all fairness this one would be hard to detect unless you were searching for it]

May 13th - KC starts talking to Amy about moving in together and that CA would be signing the house over to her in mid-June. About 3 weeks later Amy says that CA took back the agreement because she had 30 days to do so.... then said 2 days later GA was cheating on CA. (setting up murder/suicide?)

May 19th - KC provides Amy with a tentative move-in date of June 18th...

June 13th KC says GA has a mini-stroke and she can't go to Jax with Amy to get her car...

June15th - CA & Caylee visit GGP's.... alleged blowup fight at the A's that evening CA strangles KC.

June 16th - KC & Caylee leave without taking extra clothes. Come back to the house and well... at this point... KC has officially "snapped" probably the night before.... it is anyone's guess as to the exact method; duct tape to silence, to smother her mouth & nose, put her in the pool to drown/suffocate w/ the tape on, taped her up, wrapped her in the poo blanket, put her in the laundry bag and then into the plastic bin in her car and drove away... then put her in garbage bags before she dumped her in the woods (to manage leaks, make it look like trash)... and of course she could have put the duct tape on her to make it look like a kidnapping so she wouldn't be blamed when she was found.

APD's are not always skilled liars because they expect their victims to believe what they say and don't' know how to react when they don't buy their stories... they are very capable of turning off interpersonal connections when they are faced with the truth or stressful events. During acts that they know are wrong but just don't care enough to stop themselves it is very easy for them to disassociate themselves. It makes them able to commit violent acts without feeling remorse. Her lack of emotions except when she is the one being punished are good demonstrations of her disassociation with Caylee and her only concern is for herself (in court & speaking to her parents).

In summary... CA & GA provided an environment that would foster emotional and psychological damage by predisposing KC to their own maladaptive parental disorders.

And please don't misunderstand... I have little sympathy for people that grow up in very dysfunctional households and consistently blame their parents for why they can't function as well as others. If are able to know that you have a problem then you are able to fix it or at least get help, counseling, medication, both... warning label tattooed on your forehead. I could be a poster child for most messed up family in the US but I'm just very luckly and glad that I didn't end up on the back of a milk carton....

Well, when KC was in high school, she used to go into the wood near the school and drink, smoke dope, and get with guys.

ONE person who claimed to know a teacher, said KC was a good student. Others said she was indifferent.

And, old friends like Ryan and Amy said she had untrustworthy as long as they could remember. Ryan knew her since age five, and Amy knew her, I think, since her early teens.

She dumped JG, twice. The first time because she thought he "loved her more than he did Caylee." He never dumped her. It's been opined that she got bored, He was a stay at home guy, and she a partyer. She was also hitting on another guy while she was engaged to him.

So, this gal has been a bit unsavory for quite a while. Not to mention robbing her famlly, including her disabled grandfather.

So, I find it hard to but that she's a romantic, fallen angel, who was a "good girl" until some tragic trauma. Her history goes farther back than that. It looks like she's been of indifferent character all her life.

 

[Brini]

I don't think Cindy wanted to share this baby with anyone and that is part of the family dysfunction. Cindy was in control of most things and being the sole grandmother (and possibly the sole mother in many ways), kept things easier to manipulate.
I think we know that KC had enough sexual partners to leave a big question as to the father and they possibly capitalized on that.
I think if the deceased young man is not the father, then it makes perfect sense to not name someone because the control over Caylee was simplified. But of course the only one that had more control was KC and that was most likely the beginning of the end for this family dynamic and caylee herself.
jmho of course.

J, aren't we supposed to source rumors, now? Like the rape and incest stuff?

 

[Brini]

I believe it is Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptsd) :blowkiss:

Yes, it is.

 

[Brini]

Kio (I think that is her name) knew Casey was pregnant.
They talked about it, so Casey definitely knew.

I had a thought while reading these posts that hadn't occured to me before about the pregnancy denial. If Cindy and Casey were going to raise a baby two months after the wedding why lie about it to the family this baby will be part of?

Was there a plan to not keep Caylee (possibly Casey's plan and Cindy was working on convincing her otherwise?) so they figured they could pretend she wasn't pregnant, give Caylee away, and then go back to life as "anthony-normal" and Casey wouldn't be labeled as a knocked up teen?

We know the nursery was set up last minute. We know she was talking about adoption with Kio, not that I think Kio was ever a canidate but the topic was on Casey's mind.

Yeah, KC told Amy the rubber broke.

If KC really didn't want the baby, she could have got her butt down to Planned Parenthood, had an abortion, and the folks would never have known.

 

[impatientredhead]

Yeah, KC told Amy the rubber broke.

If KC really didn't want the baby, she could have got her butt down to Planned Parenthood, had an abortion, and the folks would never have known.

I agree and have really given up on Casey's thought process.
The part of the pregnancy denial that interest me is Cindy.
They weren't acknowledging the pregnancy in public. They hadn't decorated the nursery. So either Cindy was operating under the baby is being given up for adoption and we are just going to deny any of this ever happened OR she had a plan for how to explain the sudden appearance of a baby a couple of months later. Was she going to tell people her and George adopted a newborn? Well, you guys were right, Casey was pregnant, silly me?

And George just standing by and letting this little charade go down. I know it is because George is seen as a sympathetic figure, a victim of Cindy, but he makes me absolutely insane. He is such a contributor to this family pathology. He is a crucial and required piece of the puzzle. And every bit as pathological as Cindy and Casey. He just wraps it up in a more palatable package than the pitbull does.

 

[karenmamo]

Will someone please tell me what proof we have that Casey had multiple sex partners in her teens.
That keeps coming up and my gut says: NO jmo

 

[Searchfortruth]

I believe there is much Casey is responsible for, Caylee's murder for starters. I believe that there were factors that went into the making of Casey, her parents. Since this is a psych thread there are not many hard facts, it is based more on opinion. Even from the "experts" I have heard various psychological diagnoses of Casey. I enjoy this thread, and others like it, because I get to read many different theories, thoughts on why Casey turned out as she did. I even get to insert my own. I don't think anyone has the one right answer, at this point, about Casey and or her family, maybe one day we will.

 

[Searchfortruth]

I agree and have really given up on Casey's thought process.
The part of the pregnancy denial that interest me is Cindy.
They weren't acknowledging the pregnancy in public. They hadn't decorated the nursery. So either Cindy was operating under the baby is being given up for adoption and we are just going to deny any of this ever happened OR she had a plan for how to explain the sudden appearance of a baby a couple of months later. Was she going to tell people her and George adopted a newborn? Well, you guys were right, Casey was pregnant, silly me?

And George just standing by and letting this little charade go down. I know it is because George is seen as a sympathetic figure, a victim of Cindy, but he makes me absolutely insane. He is such a contributor to this family pathology. He is a crucial and required piece of the puzzle. And every bit as pathological as Cindy and Casey. He just wraps it up in a more palatable package than the pitbull does.

This is what intriques me too.

The fact that Cindy told such an obvious lie to family members and expected them to believe her, IMO, may be connected to Casey's method of telling outrageous lies while expecting other's to believe her. Lying is nothing new, it's the unbelievable lies they tell while expecting other's to see it their way that floors me.

 

[countzero]

Many teens think that having a baby fullfills a need, that they will have a love unconditionally from the the baby. Until the time comes when the child gets older and interfers with their lifestyle. Especially when these teen moms live with a parent (s). KC knew exactly what having Caylee would mean for her, that a baby she could "show off" and still not have to be and have responsibility of raising.

KC wanted her cake and eat it too. CA on the other side of the coin, viewed Caylee as hers. Conflict from the start.

I firmly believe both KC & CA knew early on that KC was pregnant. Why they took KC to the wedding is beyond me.

I am still w/o my puter and am using my itouch to read all these replies.

 

[PeteyGirl]

I know it is because George is seen as a sympathetic figure, a victim of Cindy, but he makes me absolutely insane. He is such a contributor to this family pathology. He is a crucial and required piece of the puzzle.

THANK YOU.

GA is as much a part of the puzzle as the women who sit back and let their boyfriend de jour beat and kill their babies. He is as sympathetic to me as one of those so called mothers.

Different scenario, same mindset. HIS needs come before the needs of innocent bystanders, and he's got a good thing going with CA, a perfect little terrarium to nurture HIS sickness. Otherwise, he'd have been outta there a long time ago.

 

[maswondering2]

That was a choice between the two of them. My parents did everything they could to discourage our independence. I ran away, and got a job in another town. My sister married, to get out of the house.

KC cold have chosen to get work, and get her own place, whether CA liked it or not.

KC is not a victim. She victimizes every life that she touches.

I agree she is not a victim. She is the predator!

 

[Searchfortruth]

I think at the time of the wedding Cindy was operating in cover up mode. For some reason the idea that she had a daughter, unmarried and seven months pregnant was worth hiding, even to close family members. Like Rick said Cindy only told them, the family, about the good stuff going on in their lives, and kept the bad hidden. This pregnancy was shameful to Cindy, IMO. Now after Caylee was born I have no doubt that she fell in love with her.

George, I guess, just went along...I don't understand it. I go back to the car ride to the wedding...Cindy, George and a very pregnant Casey all in the car. Did they all know to deny the pregnancy before hand ? Had it been done with others so often that they all knew what to expect or was it talked about before ?

 

[MidAtlanticNative]

Will someone please tell me what proof we have that Casey had multiple sex partners in her teens.
That keeps coming up and my gut says: NO jmo

We don't have any proof that Casey had a prolific love life in her teens. And like you, my instincts say 'no'. There are several reasons for my feeling, not the least of which has to do with the publicity seeking tendencies of the general public. I feel like there would be "bombshell" after "bombshell" in the news if indeed Casey had indeed made the rounds. 'Meet Casey's First Lover!', 'Tot Mom Was Tops In The Sack!', etc. The tabloids would eat it up with spoon and happily regurgitate for us, night after night. :crazy:

 

[Friday]

I have a hard time with the word "denial" to CA. She maneuvers a conversation to the spot where she is in control of beliefs/truth of the statments or questions. If she doean't like what is being said then she changes the wording to suit how she wants the message to be. I just have a hard time calling that denial.

Amen!

 

[MidAtlanticNative]

I think at the time of the wedding Cindy was operating in cover up mode. For some reason the idea that she had a daughter, unmarried and seven months pregnant was worth hiding, even to close family members. Like Rick said Cindy only told them, the family, about the good stuff going on in their lives, and kept the bad hidden. This pregnancy was shameful to Cindy, IMO. Now after Caylee was born I have no doubt that she fell in love with her.

George, I guess, just went along...I don't understand it. I go back to the car ride to the wedding...Cindy, George and a very pregnant Casey all in the car. Did they all know to deny the pregnancy before hand ? Had it been done with others so often that they all knew what to expect or was it talked about before ?

You know, I don't think it was talked about at all. It wasn't part of the good stuff, so it wasn't ever discussed. I think the Anthonys exist in a 'if we don't acknowledge it, it doesn't exist' vacuum. I call it Pink Elephant Syndrome.

 

[reeseeva]

Yeah, KC told Amy the rubber broke.

If KC really didn't want the baby, she could have got her butt down to Planned Parenthood, had an abortion, and the folks would never have known.

Brini, When did you hear/see that Amy told KC this? Also, I thought Amy was a relatively new friend, in regards to her having multiple partners in Highschool. I thought is was Kio who made this statement?

 

[essies]

Wow-I love this thread! So many good and interesting ideas being examined! For me-I see Cindy using Ricks wedding as a means of embarrasment for KC. I'm sure Cindy bought that blue dress and little white sweater that shows off KC's belly on purpose. Yeah, Cindy came off looking like a fool denying KC's pregnancy, but I'm sure it wasn't the first time she used this tactic and as we have seen, in the past year, Cindy comes off looking like a fool plenty of times.
Cindy's a narcissist-her thinking is all about her. She drags KC to Rick's wedding when she didn't have to -to punish KC! JMO
Cindy thinks people will feel sorry for her. She wants people to think "poor woman-look what SHE has to deal with!"
Cindy loves to play the martyr role. She's putting KC thru the wringer in public and probably told her "just stand there and smile and say nothing. I'll do all the talking."
KC plays her role-George plays his role and Cindy plays hers-they all have roles to play or there will be H3LL to pay!
As far as the paternity goes-I don't think we'll ever know-cause I don't think KC knows for sure. But, I do think something was happening in '03 and "04-but I don't think we'll ever find out for sure what it was. And if it comes from the A's-can you believe it?

 

[kageykaren]

I would love to see the initial Intake transcripts from the psychiatrist assigned to KC upon incarceration. Her wild eyes upon being escorted from JS courtroom I feel shows KC in the rawest of emotion she couldn't contain or disguise. We haven't seen that look wild eye look since. KC appeared to regain her composer through the duration of court appearances, not affording the general public another view of her defensives being down. Another interview that would have been beneficial to see was KC face while giving LE all those false statments we have heard. KC pathology at the time of murder was more of anger simmering and once the act was done it seems to have given her a sense of power and an emotional release almost compared to the same feeling associated with the feelings after sex. KC was comfortable with the power and feelings sex brought her. At this point KC has only follwed through with one thing, the pregnancy, birth and whatever kind of mothering she provided. Kicking Freud to the curb until he may be needed I have the feeling this muder came down to power and the mindset of, "I brought you into this world and I have the power to take you out." Thats where her My Space comes into play again. I don't feel KC could contain the emotion that came with murder. She had to expell that evil energy someway, hince all the clues she left for all to put together, as KC stated. I agree with some posters that feel she was operating so eradictly while trying to appear as if everything was kosher because she new she would be accused. Even though KC may be making society work hard to convict her, the case will have gone full circle and in the end KC will get that institution she semi asked for and a new form of independence from parents and parenting. The "selfish witch" harden as her friend Ryan stated will adjust I feel just fine after her initiation into this criminal sorority (sp). Just another stupid criminal murderes that could have opted for a simpler less complicated life, parents aside. This is the pathology in her thinking that separates KC from other young single parents who have circumstances far worse than KC. "My brain made me do it" will be no excuse come trial in my humble opinion. Off Topic but that statement of my brain made me do it actually came from my son who was 3 at the time when he said it. We were in a drugstore, sharing an isle with a lovely senior citizen when he picked up a caboodle, threw it at the woman, looked up at me with a startled look and said,My brain made me do it" Well Duh! This same son was diagnosed with 2 forms of seizure disorder at the age of 16. I had no idea how profound his statement would be.

 

[Friday]

Red, what're we gonna DO with you? You JUST keep on making too much sense!:blowkiss:

You're right! CA was hostile to JG, because another family was gonna have some control over Caylee. CA woulda taken on anyone who had any claim at all to the baby-of-contention.

Re my bold-- AND I mean no disrespect to RG, but he strikes me as being one very controlling, self-righteous guy who would have been more than a match for CA in any contest of wills. Neither CA, nor even Jesse, could win a battle against RG and his BFF--God.

I sound snide about RG when the truth is I'm always a little uneasy when confronted with the kind of religious zeal that RG exhibits. I keep wondering how difficult it might be for a young person like JG to learn to think for himself and become independent under the umbrella of such loving parental tyranny.

Whoops, I've not only betrayed a personal hang-up of mine, I've also strayed off topic! :blowkiss:

 

[Friday]

Sure there was an escape. KC could have got a job. But, she'd rather party than work, and the baby got in the way.

You're quite right, that would have been an escape route for KC--one she would have been forced to take if CA hadn't wanted to maintain control over her by subtly supporting all KC's character weaknesses. I need to clarify here that I hold KC totally accountable for the things she's done.

I merely blame CA for creating an atmosphere that nurtured and supported all of KC's vilest traits. I think, in the end, CA created a monster that occasionally turned on her, a monster who CA learned to be wary of when cornered or mishandled. As happened on the night of June 15th.