ARDI -- new hope The return of the IDI

[BBB167893]

article of clothing, here we're talking about deposited black fibers.

Yes, I know that. But what I'm saying is that most fibers can be analyzed for composition.

So we have black fibers on JB's panties, and there is some visual resemblence to black fibers on JR's shirt, but we cannot rule out the possibility these black fibers share visual resemblence to black fibers that would rub off and be deposited from a black shirt bought at say Target, Walmart, JC Penny's, Neiman Marcus?

You're getting it. But that's only the first step. They can trace it all the way back to the manufacturing plant if they need to.

 

[voynich]

I meant, since she didn't live in the same house, how could she be sure about JB. I can't say what JR's ex-wife suspected. I know she found out that JR was having an affair.



As far as HER homelife, I would agree. But that's why I asked about the difference between pedophiles and situationals.



Pedophile, definitely, He was willing to enter a home not familiar to him to molest a young girl. Situationals tend not to leave the family because they're easier access. That's where situational comes from.

well that's what I've been saying, JB & AR are victims of an IDI pedophile

 

[voynich]

Yes, I know that. But what I'm saying is that most fibers can be analyzed for composition.



You're getting it. But that's only the first step. They can trace it all the way back to the manufacturing plant if they need to.

Do you know for a fact they did this and how determinative this is?

A black cotten fiber from Israel would give the same chemical composition as a black cotten fiber from China or Mexico.

Did they actually trace it to the manufacturing plant? OR did they say, oh black fiber, oh look JR has a black fiber shirt, it's a match.

Cotton. and black dye.

How many individual black fibers did they find in her panties? Do fibers that rub off JR's black shirt give length and quanitity consistent with deposited fibers?

 

[voynich]

Well, specifically, we're talking about tissues being exposed that aren't supposed to be, areas where very little hymen was left, areas of tissue sloughing, enlarged openings, and a few other things. It's not certain how many times because JB's not around to tell us, but one estimate put one injury at least 10 days earlier. Personally, I'd say at least a month.



I've read estimates of once every three days.



Whomever it was, we can rule that one right out.



Best bet, voynich. Most molesters like to "prepare" their victims through digital manipulation for more to come. LinasK would be the one to ask about that.



Not without doing EXTREME damage.

So it would be consistent with the following:

BR or a playmate inserts JB's vagina, And/or a nurse or doctor, and JB enjoys the sensation so proceeds to insert her own finger in her vagina, and/or she tried to wash out using a douche like device her vagina, after she soils her undies.

Is it possible that she got fecal matter in her vagina, or urine, and the area got irritated and inflamed? OR that she tried to remove fecal material or itching of her vagina using her own finger?

 

[Ravyn]

Please remember we are talking about a 6 year old and not a teenager and or a grown woman..

 

[BBB167893]

well that's what I've been saying, JB & AR are victims of an IDI pedophile

I KNOW what you're saying. But I'm not sure you understand me.

Do you know for a fact they did this and how determinative this is?

I don't know for a fact that they did this, but I don't know they DIDN'T either. Wouldn't shock me. As for being determinative, it narrows it down.

A black cotten fiber from Israel would give the same chemical composition as a black cotten fiber from China or Mexico.

That may be so (not sure if it is), but it's not just chemical composition, it's a question of how it was made. For instance, what we see as a black fiber could be woven with navy to make it stand out more. Or, cotton could be blended with polyester, etc.

Did they actually trace it to the manufacturing plant?

I wouldn't be surprised.

OR did they say, oh black fiber, oh look JR has a black fiber shirt, it's a match.

I'm sure there are people who will say that's what happened. I don't buy it.

How many individual black fibers did they find in her panties?

No idea. And JR didn't ask!

Do fibers that rub off JR's black shirt give length and quanitity consistent with deposited fibers?

I can't be much help there.

 

[BBB167893]

So it would be consistent with the following:

BR or a playmate inserts JB's vagina, And/or a nurse or doctor, and JB enjoys the sensation so proceeds to insert her own finger in her vagina,

No way. They ruled out self-stimulation a long time ago.

and/or she tried to wash out using a douche like device her vagina, after she soils her undies.

I don't think JB was that coordinated when it came to her hygiene. Or did I mention that she still asked adults to clean her up?

Is it possible that she got fecal matter in her vagina, or urine, and the area got irritated and inflamed?

I suppose. But that wouldn't account for everything else.

OR that she tried to remove fecal material or itching of her vagina using her own finger?

It still wouldn't have done that.

It's not just the physical aspects, voynich. It's the behavioral ones as well. Pam Archuletta said about a year ago that PR was concerned about JB's overly friendly nature. "She flirts with people," PR said. And sexual acting out is a STAPLE of abused children.

 

[madeleine]

No way. They ruled out self-stimulation a long time ago.



I don't think JB was that coordinated when it came to her hygiene. Or did I mention that she still asked adults to clean her up?



I suppose. But that wouldn't account for everything else.



It still wouldn't have done that.

It's not just the physical aspects, voynich. It's the behavioral ones as well. Pam Archuletta said about a year ago that PR was concerned about JB's overly friendly nature. "She flirts with people," PR said. And sexual acting out is a STAPLE of abused children.

Thanks for bringing this up SD.Was thinking if to post re this or not,feeling somehow uncomfortable.Was watching some JB videos lately...I almost never do that,watching her pageant videos,looking at her pictures and stuff.

Whenever I look at her I am enraged.I hope noone gets me wrong.But she just doesn't look like a KID! :furious: And yes,she does look flirty in some of the videos.And you can barely find photos were she doesn't wear tons of make-up and that damn lipstick!:furious:

I am a woman and it's hard for me to look at her because I find her sexy!That's not normal!She was 6 FGS,what's with all the flirty moves,the blonde hair and all?And it's not only the moves,but the way she looks at the camera sometimes,yep,like she's flirting.

And then there comes mommy saying she's concerned??

GMAFB!It was her transforming that poor child into.............can't find my words..................

Sorry for ranting,but this was on my chest for a long time now.


Now another thing re all this.............now if there was an intruder and he targeted JB because she was a beauty queen,wouldn't you as a parent feel a bit guilty about it?I would DIE knowing that it was ME who exposed her like that.No,what is mommy doing?She even buries her in that stupid silly outfit!:furious:

Ok I am done now.

 

[voynich]

No way. They ruled out self-stimulation a long time ago.

I don't think JB was that coordinated when it came to her hygiene. Or did I mention that she still asked adults to clean her up?

I suppose. But that wouldn't account for everything else.

It still wouldn't have done that.

It's not just the physical aspects, voynich. It's the behavioral ones as well. Pam Archuletta said about a year ago that PR was concerned about JB's overly friendly nature. "She flirts with people," PR said. And sexual acting out is a STAPLE of abused children.

She was playing the role of flirty actress beauty queen.

 

[voynich]

I KNOW what you're saying. But I'm not sure you understand me.



I don't know for a fact that they did this, but I don't know they DIDN'T either. Wouldn't shock me. As for being determinative, it narrows it down.



That may be so (not sure if it is), but it's not just chemical composition, it's a question of how it was made. For instance, what we see as a black fiber could be woven with navy to make it stand out more. Or, cotton could be blended with polyester, etc.



I wouldn't be surprised.



I'm sure there are people who will say that's what happened. I don't buy it.



No idea. And JR didn't ask!



I can't be much help there.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/july2000/deedric3.htm

When a fiber examiner matches a questioned fiber to a known item of clothing, there are only two possible explanations:

* The fiber actually originated from the item of clothing, or

* The fiber did not originate from the item of clothing.

In order to say that the fiber originated from the item of clothing, the clothing either had to be the only fabric of its type ever produced or still remaining on earth, or the transfer of fibers was directly observed. Since neither of these situations is likely to occur or be known, fiber examiners will conclude that the fibers could have originated from the clothing or that the fibers are consistent with originating from the clothing. The only way to say that a fiber did not originate from a particular item of clothing is to know the actual history of the garment or to have actually observed the fiber transfer from another garment.



​

 

[voynich]

Thanks for bringing this up SD.Was thinking if to post re this or not,feeling somehow uncomfortable.Was watching some JB videos lately...I almost never do that,watching her pageant videos,looking at her pictures and stuff.

Whenever I look at her I am enraged.I hope noone gets me wrong.But she just doesn't look like a KID! :furious: And yes,she does look flirty in some of the videos.And you can barely find photos were she doesn't wear tons of make-up and that damn lipstick!:furious:

I am a woman and it's hard for me to look at her because I find her sexy!That's not normal!She was 6 FGS,what's with all the flirty moves,the blonde hair and all?And it's not only the moves,but the way she looks at the camera sometimes,yep,like she's flirting.

And then there comes mommy saying she's concerned??

GMAFB!It was her transforming that poor child into.............can't find my words..................

Sorry for ranting,but this was on my chest for a long time now.


Now another thing re all this.............now if there was an intruder and he targeted JB because she was a beauty queen,wouldn't you as a parent feel a bit guilty about it?I would DIE knowing that it was ME who exposed her like that.No,what is mommy doing?She even buries her in that stupid silly outfit!:furious:

Ok I am done now.

Aren't there other girls involved in beauty pageants before and since?? Personally I don't even watch Miss America boring.

 

[voynich]

N

It's not just the physical aspects, voynich. It's the behavioral ones as well. Pam Archuletta said about a year ago that PR was concerned about JB's overly friendly nature. "She flirts with people," PR said. And sexual acting out is a STAPLE of abused children.

I guess it really depends on very specific details on 'she flirts with people'.

Which *unaccounted for* behaviors did JB show on this list? by unaccounted for, while JB did have a bed-wetting problem, and this is a sign of sexual abuse, all of R's children had bed-wetting problems, so bed-wetting could be accounted for.

http://www.protectkids.com/abuse/abusesigns.htm

There are various lists of possible physical and behavioral indicators of child sexual abuse, some of which are:

* Waking up during the night sweating, screaming or shaking with nightmares.

* Masturbating excessively.

* Showing unusually aggressive behavior toward family members, friends, toys, and pets.

* Complaining of pain while urinating or having a bowel movement, or exhibiting symptoms of genital infections such as offensive odors, or symptoms of a sexually transmitted disease.

* Having symptoms indicating evidence of physical traumas to the genital or anal area.

* Beginning wetting the bed.

* Experiencing a loss of appetite or other eating problems, including unexplained gagging.

* Showing unusual fear of a certain place or location.

* Developing frequent unexplained health problems.

* Engaging in persistent sexual play with friends, toys or pets.

* Having unexplained periods of panic, which may be flashbacks from the abuse.

* Regressing to behaviors too young for the stage of development they already achieved.

* Initiating sophisticated sexual behaviors.

* Indicating a sudden reluctance to be alone with a certain person.

* Engaging in self-mutilations, such as sticking themselves with pins or cutting themselves.

* Withdrawing from previously enjoyable activities, like school or school performance change.

* Asking an unusual amount of questions about human sexuality.

 

[Ravyn]

And JB had a couple of these, bedwetting,showing anger at PR or that is what I read so I guess it's time to see how many more we can find to show sexual abuse...

 

[BBB167893]

She was playing the role of flirty actress beauty queen.

Which makes me wonder which came first...

 

[BBB167893]

I guess it really depends on very specific details on 'she flirts with people'.

Which *unaccounted for* behaviors did JB show on this list?

You have no idea how long I've waited for you to ask.

by unaccounted for, while JB did have a bed-wetting problem, and this is a sign of sexual abuse,

Darn right.

all of R's children had bed-wetting problems, so bed-wetting could be accounted for.

Not this kind.

http://www.protectkids.com/abuse/abusesigns.htm

There are various lists of possible physical and behavioral indicators of child sexual abuse, some of which are:

I'll bold the ones that match up.

* Waking up during the night sweating, screaming or shaking with nightmares.

* Masturbating excessively.

* Showing unusually aggressive behavior toward family members, friends, toys, and pets.

* Complaining of pain while urinating or having a bowel movement, or exhibiting symptoms of genital infections such as offensive odors, or symptoms of a sexually transmitted disease.

* Having symptoms indicating evidence of physical traumas to the genital or anal area.

* Beginning wetting the bed.

* Experiencing a loss of appetite or other eating problems, including unexplained gagging.

* Showing unusual fear of a certain place or location.

* Developing frequent unexplained health problems.

* Engaging in persistent sexual play with friends, toys or pets.

* Having unexplained periods of panic, which may be flashbacks from the abuse.

* Regressing to behaviors too young for the stage of development they already achieved.

* Initiating sophisticated sexual behaviors.

* Indicating a sudden reluctance to be alone with a certain person.

* Engaging in self-mutilations, such as sticking themselves with pins or cutting themselves.

* Withdrawing from previously enjoyable activities, like school or school performance change.

* Asking an unusual amount of questions about human sexuality.

JB wasn't just a bedwetter. That's one thing. She had moved up to daytime accidents and soiling. In 2006, FOX News did an interview with Holly Smith. At the time of JonBenet's murder, she was the head of the Boulder County Sex Abuse team. In the interview, she talked about what she found. "There is this dynamic of children that have been sexually abused sometimes soiling themselves or urinating in their beds to keep someone who is hurting them at bay," explains Smith....While Smith points out there could be innocent explanations, this was the kind of information that raised questions. Hoping to zero in on a possibility, Smith said that by the third day of the investigation, she'd found fecal staining on every pair of JonBenet's panties. I'm not talking simple "skid marks." These clothing items had been laundered beforehand.

 

[DeeDee249]

The fingers of a 6-year old girl are too short to reach her own hymen. Masturbation in girls that young, while not unheard of, is usually an indication of sexual abuse or being sexually stimulated somehow.

As far as JR's black Israeli shirt- whenever forensic fiber evidence is considered, fibers are always classified as "consistent with" fibers from something else (i.e a source), as in carpeting, car interior, etc.
This is for the very reason that unless something is the ONLY one in existence,
fibers cannot be said to have come ONLY from that article. However, fiber evidence is often used in criminal cases, and is often the determining factor in guilt, as in fibers from the trunk of a car being found on a body, etc. when it is unlikely that they could have come from any other source. For example- fibers found on a body matching the trunk of a car in which that body was found when the car belongs to someone in possession of the deceased's credit cards, jewelry, clothing, etc. indicates beyond a reasonable doubt that the person knows how that body got in the trunk of their car, even if they were not the actual killer. The fibers in that case indicate that the body was in THAT particular car and not another car of similar make and model.
In this case, you have to consider that it would be very unlikely for any intruder, especially a SFF, to have left fibers consistent with BOTH JR's shirt that he wore THAT DAY (in the panty crotch) AND PR's fleece jacket that she wore THAT DAY (in the garrote knot and tape).

 

[voynich]

count Davku

I don't have any explanation for those problems, it's outside my expertise, 4 although did the R's bring this to attention of health professionals? what did they say? did any suspect sexual abuse or did they suggest or thought of something else? still

Is it even possible for an adult like JR to insert his finger into a 6 year old's specifically JB vagina without rupturing the hymen entirely? :bang:

 

[Tboy4]

In reading the "She flirts" comment from PR I was immediately struck by the thought that that sounds like a jealous remark. Is anyone else thinking it's possible that PR was jealous of JB? I thought I'd read something about PR not being either willing or able (one or the other) to "be with" JR because of her previous bout of cancer. If so, and he turned to JB for that purpose, perhaps PR was aware and jealous?

 

[BBB167893]

count Davku

I don't have any explanation for those problems, it's outside my expertise, 4 although did the R's bring this to attention of health professionals?

Not directly, at least. We know that PR took JB to her pediatrician a fair number of times, several for vaginal irritation. Other than that, not a thing was done.

what did they say? did any suspect sexual abuse or did they suggest or thought of something else?

Well, the afore-mentioned pediatrician has said that he never suspected sexual abuse, but also admits that he never performed the necessary examinations to find out. His reasoning was that the Rs didn't seem like the type.

Is it even possible for an adult like JR to insert his finger into a 6 year old's specifically JB vagina without rupturing the hymen entirely? :bang:

Yes, it is. More specifically, abuse like this is not often done in one shot. It's done over time to "prepare" the subject.

 

[BBB167893]

In reading the "She flirts" comment from PR I was immediately struck by the thought that that sounds like a jealous remark. Is anyone else thinking it's possible that PR was jealous of JB? I thought I'd read something about PR not being either willing or able (one or the other) to "be with" JR because of her previous bout of cancer. If so, and he turned to JB for that purpose, perhaps PR was aware and jealous?

I have often thought that.