Perhaps the R's thought JB was an intruder so they wacked her accidentally,

[voynich]

You've got me interested. Please go on.

I have wondered if the R's were entirely truthful in reporting they did NOT feed JB pineapple. JB went to the kitchen to help herself to some pineapple (PR and JR were truthful in reporting they did not know about this) and maybe waiting for a secret visit from Santa Claus

Perhaps the R's heard sounds in a kitchen, sounds that sounded like a burglar, thought JB was an intruder, so they wacked her accidentally

they heard sounds in the kitchen, they thought JB and BR were in the bedroom asleep, they went downstairs with a baseball bat, and they swung in the dark thinking it might be a burglar and it turned out they accidentally hit JB. They heard a cracking sound, and realized they fractured her skull. Possibly BR went downstairs and struck JB
-- perhaps JB was in the kitchen and heard her parents coming downstairs and so she ran off and hid, and the R's believed there was an intruder so they set off in the house looking for a burglar when they struck at JB. Maybe she knew she wasn't supposed to eat pineapple or that she violated her parent's curfew.


They made a decision to stage the crime scene rather than call 911, as they realized the strike was mortal. They then stage the crime scene.

Mistaken a family member for a burglar and then striking them has happened before. One possible variation of this idea is that PR or JR were having a visit from a secret lover, and PR or JR caught the other in adultery, swung at the adulterer and accidentally killed JB as an innocent bystander, or struck JB to prevent her from reporting to the other about the adulterous affair. The DNA obvious came from PR's bf (or JR's bf). This secret bf helped with the staging and obviously carted off some items w/him. He may have written the RN (consistent w/forensic linguistics) etc. Under this scenario, PR + BF might have done everything without JR or BR knowing anything. PR dictacted the RN entirely to him.

 

[redeemed]

i doubt that the Ramseys would have shown such a united front if there was a lover involved. I dont think they would have stayed married after that....
Also, I think it's such a big risk to invite a secret lover into your own home on X'mas night, when the rest of the family is there...

 

[DeeDee249]

I just don't think this is a viable theory. To bash someone in the head, you have to be fairly close to them. You'd see it was someone small- a 6 year old child cannot be confused with an adult, even in the dark.
Now, if she'd been shot- that would be different. Shooting a person in a dark room can happen accidentally.
But lets be realistic- kids get up sometimes. What parent shoots or bashes first and looks later?
Why would an intruder be snacking in the kitchen? They'd be ransacking bedrooms.
I just think this is grasping at straws.

 

[tapu]

I was thinking, what if Eleanor Roosevelt could fly? :crazy:

 

[BBB167893]

Even so, the idea of a secret lover being involved is an intriguing one.

 

[JMO8778]

wasn't it written somewhere about Patsy having left the house that night? I know I recall something about she'd had an affair with one of the other parents at the kids' school...a banker or something.that would explain why she still had her jacket on that late.(either that or she'd planned on removing JB's body from the house).

 

[Sophie]

Even so, the idea of a secret lover being involved is an intriguing one.

It is!

Again, the Joyce Carroll Oates scenario of John going out to see a lover and Patsy desperately faking a kidnapping to get John's attention back on the family but her having a terrible accident. Out there, but,as you say, these make intriguing possibilities.

Also, and I don't believe this to be the case in the Ramset murder, but the very last book I read on parental murder claimed that research shows that the biggest single reason for which a parent kills a child is to get revenge on his or her spouse, usually for an infidelity.

 

[madeleine]

It is!

Again, the Joyce Carroll Oates scenario of John going out to see a lover and Patsy desperately faking a kidnapping to get John's attention back on the family but her having a terrible accident. Out there, but,as you say, these make intriguing possibilities.

Also, and I don't believe this to be the case in the Ramset murder, but the very last book I read on parental murder claimed that research shows that the biggest single reason for which a parent kills a child is to get revenge on his or her spouse, usually for an infidelity.

This is what makes this case so interesting.....anything is possible!
I can see both PR losing it/overkill and JR accidentally hurting JB during a sex game+calmly covering it up. ((shrug))


You got me thinking......maybe all the staging DID have something to do with PR being a drama queen and seeking attention.Beheaded,executed,beheaded,garroted,assaulted.It's just TOO much!Guess we will never know for sure what was staging and what not....

 

[madeleine]

Okay,I am not one of those who thinks this was just an accident.............the first thing that makes me draw this conclusion is..............prior abuse is NEVER just an accident....... .If this murder was about sexual abuse I hardly call it an accident,even IF the head bash was an accident and the strangulation was part of the cover-up(still find it very hard to believe but I am not saying it's impossible).

 

[redeemed]

It is!

Again, the Joyce Carroll Oates scenario of John going out to see a lover and Patsy desperately faking a kidnapping to get John's attention back on the family but her having a terrible accident. Out there, but,as you say, these make intriguing possibilities.

Also, and I don't believe this to be the case in the Ramset murder, but the very last book I read on parental murder claimed that research shows that the biggest single reason for which a parent kills a child is to get revenge on his or her spouse, usually for an infidelity.

Thats a VERY INTERESTING theory Sophie (applause).:Banane34:
What could have happened was this:
Patsy might have known about John having an affair, but he didn't necessarily leave their home that night to meet the lover (after they all returned from their friends' home).
Perhaps Patsy has planned with some person to come that very night and "kidnap" the daughter , for a couple of days or so. Maybe she gave certain instuctions to the kidnapper, but he deviated from them..He probably thought; oh..I have this cute little girl with me all to myself..lets have some fun now...and he abused her that night etc. (this is not to say that the abuse was solely related to that night.By all means JonBenet could have been abused by a relative (???) prior to that night.)
and then things could have spiralled out of control then...maybe JBR screamed etc.. when he starts touching her inappropriately..The kidnapper panics, not wanting John to hear that, so he bashes her head etc...she's unconcious and he thinks she's dead...
Patsy is then alerted and she comes to the scene GOBSMACKED.ROOTED TO HER SPOT. THIS WAS NOT THE ORIGINAL PLAN.But then she's deep in #### already coz she already "knew" about the kidnapping..its too late to back out now...She cant report this to the police right away..what if MR Kidnapper (aka Foreign faction) turns against her and claims that this was INTENTIONAL-that Patsy ordered him to murder JBR...she chooses the lesser of two evils...
and HENCE, Patsy has no choice but to go with the flow and write that crazy ransom note etc..(but then, one can argue that the RN was written BEFORE the murder..in order to deceive John and convince him JB was indeed kidnapped..this explains the odd number of $118 000...so after the murder, Patsy sees no point in rewriting the note and now the purpose of the rn is to fool the police, not John)
By then , she has probably confessed to John about what has happened...(im assuming all this time John was actually sleeping in his bed, unaware of whats been going on)
and he covers up for the wife...
and the rest is history.....

 

[redeemed]

(N.B this fits in very nicely with the part where JonBenet says she has a secret visitor/surprise on Xmas night. Her mum might have told her well in advance that a friend will pick her up from her bed and will take her with him to his home for a surprise gift.)

IMO this explains why Patsy vehemently defends herself..indeed -she didnt technically murder Jonbenet... (she only covered up for it)..
This IMO is the only plausible theory of why Patsy would cover up for a stranger....and nicely explains the "foreign DNA " too..
RDI and IDI are BOTH right then!!
Happy ending...:Banane59:

 

[Sophie]

This is what makes this case so interesting.....anything is possible!
I can see both PR losing it/overkill and JR accidentally hurting JB during a sex game+calmly covering it up. ((shrug))


You got me thinking......maybe all the staging DID have something to do with PR being a drama queen and seeking attention.Beheaded,executed,beheaded,garroted,assaulted.It's just TOO much!Guess we will never know for sure what was staging and what not....

It's so frustrating, isn't it. Sometimes I get these surges of optimism and feel sure that, one day, we will learn the truth. Most of the time, though, I think this will be like Jack the Ripper where people are still speculating and investigating decades and then centuries later...

One thing, though, I'd pay good money to see the notes made by Patsy's various shrinks...

 

[Sophie]

Thats a VERY INTERESTING theory Sophie (applause).:Banane34:
What could have happened was this:
Patsy might have known about John having an affair, but he didn't necessarily leave their home that night to meet the lover (after they all returned from their friends' home).
Perhaps Patsy has planned with some person to come that very night and "kidnap" the daughter , for a couple of days or so. Maybe she gave certain instuctions to the kidnapper, but he deviated from them..He probably thought; oh..I have this cute little girl with me all to myself..lets have some fun now...and he abused her that night etc. (this is not to say that the abuse was solely related to that night.By all means JonBenet could have been abused by a relative (???) prior to that night.)
and then things could have spiralled out of control then...maybe JBR screamed etc.. when he starts touching her inappropriately..The kidnapper panics, not wanting John to hear that, so he bashes her head etc...she's unconcious and he thinks she's dead...
Patsy is then alerted and she comes to the scene GOBSMACKED.ROOTED TO HER SPOT. THIS WAS NOT THE ORIGINAL PLAN.But then she's deep in #### already coz she already "knew" about the kidnapping..its too late to back out now...She cant report this to the police right away..what if MR Kidnapper (aka Foreign faction) turns against her and claims that this was INTENTIONAL-that Patsy ordered him to murder JBR...she chooses the lesser of two evils...
and HENCE, Patsy has no choice but to go with the flow and write that crazy ransom note etc..(but then, one can argue that the RN was written BEFORE the murder..in order to deceive John and convince him JB was indeed kidnapped..this explains the odd number of $118 000...so after the murder, Patsy sees no point in rewriting the note and now the purpose of the rn is to fool the police, not John)
By then , she has probably confessed to John about what has happened...(im assuming all this time John was actually sleeping in his bed, unaware of whats been going on)
and he covers up for the wife...
and the rest is history.....

This would fit pretty much all the case criteria brilliantly well, Redeemed. It would fit in with 'we never meant for this to happen' and so on....

 

[Sophie]

(N.B this fits in very nicely with the part where JonBenet says she has a secret visitor/surprise on Xmas night. Her mum might have told her well in advance that a friend will pick her up from her bed and will take her with him to his home for a surprise gift.)

IMO this explains why Patsy vehemently defends herself..indeed -she didnt technically murder Jonbenet... (she only covered up for it)..
This IMO is the only plausible theory of why Patsy would cover up for a stranger....and nicely explains the "foreign DNA " too..
RDI and IDI are BOTH right then!!
Happy ending...:Banane59:

Fits like a jigsaw puzzle actually, Redeemed. Well done! *Applause. *


There was also that journalist who claims to have spoken to one of JBR's schoolmates who said something like, 'JonBenet died because she told the secret.'

 

[Sophie]

Okay,I am not one of those who thinks this was just an accident.............the first thing that makes me draw this conclusion is..............prior abuse is NEVER just an accident....... .If this murder was about sexual abuse I hardly call it an accident,even IF the head bash was an accident and the strangulation was part of the cover-up(still find it very hard to believe but I am not saying it's impossible).

That's an excellent point, Madeleine. Showing my ignorance of US criminal law here but if a person was killed 'accidentally' during the perpetration of a sex crime would the killing automatically become murder or some classification of manslaughter or would the accident be viewed as just that and only the sex`attack prosecuted?

 

[DeeDee249]

That's an excellent point, Madeleine. Showing my ignorance of US criminal law here but if a person was killed 'accidentally' during the perpetration of a sex crime would the killing automatically become murder or some classification of manslaughter or would the accident be viewed as just that and only the sex`attack prosecuted?

I think the murder would be considered felony murder because it occurred during the commission of another crime. Whether the murder itself was intentional or accidental, it would not be First Degree Murder because that requires that it be pre-meditated. But I don't think it would get downgraded to manslaughter. Possibly it could be Second Degree Murder.

 

[redeemed]

One might ask: why would the kidnapper abuse JB right away..why didnt he wait to have her in his home so he can do what he wants freely..My thoughts?? THRILL FACTOR!! and which abuser wouldnt enjoy this ?It's like a package:he abuses her in her own home, right under the parents' noses..with the mother's consent... (consent in letting JB be with him)...He's the boss now-his game..his rules

secondly-who would Patsy trust enough for this mission?? surely she wouldn't choose a random stranger off the street-no way..
My favourite candidates:
-a relative (nephew or cousin-anybody has any ideas??any young males in Patsy's family??)
-a friend (?? in paegent circuit)
- a friend of a friend

This also explains alot of other things;
-no signs of forced entry-sure, Patsy gave him a set of keys
- the kidnapper knew his way round the house
-John slept in his bed that night-he was unaware of this plan(initially).Patsy didnt-she needed to make sure everything went smoothly and was on edge the whole time.
-Ramseys weren't worried about Burke being harmed after the murder
-BACK TO THE ODD AMOUNT $118 000. Its possible that John kept this bonus a secret from Patsy. She probably stumbled across this and was fuming that her hubby was now keeping secrets from her and not giving her the latest updates..She has another blow to deal with on top of the cancer-her husband is keeping barriers between them now.. she feels redundant..This infuriates her..and HENCE the odd amount.She's rubbing it in John's face basically by asking for this amount.. ( I know about your bonus..hahahaha)
The scenario of a secret lover is not necessarily true in this case( but it may well be)...the above IMO is more than enough to infuriate the headstrong Patsy...
and the list goes on...

The fake kidnapping acheives two goals:
-revenge -as John is distancing himself now..
-attention- she need drama in her life..after all, this may well be Patsy's very last X'mas..she needs to make headlines one more time...maybe as "The Saviour of Jonbenet"..after all , she knew who the kidnapper was...didn't she??

 

[madeleine]

Sorry guys,revisiting DOI here


pg 11

"I hurry down the spiral staircase to the bottom floor and stop.

What's this?I wonder.I turn around to look at three pieces of paper on a step near the bottom.I bend over.Must be a note from the cleaning lady,Linda,I think.Probably reminding me that she needs to borrow twenty-five hundred dollars.I must leave a check on the kitchen counter before we leave."


Now,why would that be your first thought?Why would the cleaning lady leave a 3 pages note and why THERE?

If this is not spin I dunno what it is duh.

 

[madeleine]

Redeemed,don't recall which member of the RST it was who said that PR didn't know about his bonus.Will go and check.

 

[madeleine]

According to John Douglas, the ex-FBI profiler who examined the Ramseys briefly after the murder and concluded they were not child killers, only one parent knew that John Ramsey had recently received a $118,000 bonus and that parent was the father.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/singular/theories_4.html#

Of course,that doesn't mean that PR didn't find out about it,who knows!