Misty's Learning Disabilities

[debs]

Being uneducated is not the same as being mentally retarded, as Kool Look put it.

 

[Padua]

rut roh, I do, hehehe raises hands. I just asked one in my last post. However, and not going against anything you recommend, I honor all you say on this subject. I felt Misty would rate around 65 to low seventies, placing her into the mildly mentally retarded mental competency scale. Being I've seen these same things in Misty all my life in a close family member.

What could, if she does have learning disabilities, disorders and possible mental retardation at some scale level, effect her ability to come across in interviews, polygraphs, etc... as not being truthful, inconsistent to a person totally un-educated to handling such in interviews, polygraphs,etc....? Like LE? Thanks so much.

She's not mentally retarded. She falls in the below average range of functioning. To be mentally retarded you have to have low adaptive skills. And I'm sure she knows how to do basic day to day living activities.

And, even though a person has a low average IQ doesn't mean that goes hand in hand with being deceitful.

 

[spamelope]

I finally felt the first twinge of pity for Misty when hearing the story about how she wanted help with her homework, but her grandma was unable to help her. I know the feeling, things are taught so much differently now than in my day, I have trouble helping my kids. If only she had a mentor at that time, her life could have turned out so much differently.

 

[Quiche]

I believe Misty has the capacity to learn if she's motivated. She's learned a script, can recite from memory, and can deduce enough from casual conversation to deflect, manipulate, and obscure. Ha. I think Misty needs to grow up, and get a qualified instructor. Do they still offer education in jail? imo

 

[Kat]

Being uneducated is not the same as being mentally retarded, as Kool Look put it.

I would like to add to this as well. Thanks Debs. I'm going to use your post to jump off of I hope you don't mind.

Having a learning disability is not the same as being mentally retarded (as an aside although all of us know and understand the term mental retardation IIRC it's no longer considered a common medical term and may not be be acceptable to use at this time, I'm not sure).

Also, I'm not sure that just by observing what we have seen of MC in the media since Haleigh disappeared that we can accurately diagnose her with a learning disability or even narrow down that learning disability to the exact nature of the disability.

I, most certainly, am of the opinion that none of us can with any confidence say that this young lady is intellectually challanged or mentally retarded especially given that most of us are only able to view her behavior and actions from media coverage since this has happened. I, am not qualifed to do so, I am not in the medical field and if anyone who is qualified to make an assessment can do so by just viewing this young lady's behavior in media coverage~ I would be concerned about that ~ in a lot of ways. It is my understanding that the testing required would be too involved to be done just by indirect observation of a person.

I don't have enough information to argue whether or not she has a disability or in fact if she is intellectually challanged.

As to having MC tested, given that she is emancipated in the eyes of the court wouldn't she have to give consent to be tested?

I have to go with Donjeta's explanation that learning disabilities, intellectual disabilities/mental retardation are not mutually exclusive to being able to tell falsehoods and to cover one's arse (or someone else's arse) if in fact she is doing that.

All of the above is just my humble opinion and of course as always in this case since it's such a strange one~ to change.

 

[Indiana at Heart]

All I'm going say on this matter is this.

I have LD 3 of my 4 children have LD.
2 of the 3 have graduated with a 3.8 both of them in Tech school
the 1 left is in 11th grade and 4.0

All three of my boys know how to tell the truth and know right from wrong!!

Misspelling of words, mixing numbers up and not comparing what you read is an LD. Yes I believe Misty has one, but she knows right from wrong! And she can tell the truth!

 

[Padua]

Kat - that's true. Testing usually takes between 2 to 6 hours depending on the individual.

However, looking at her writing (grammer, spelling, etc) I think it is safe to give an ESTIMATED IQ. Her verbal skills are also telling.

I'd also like to add drug use and alcohol use at her age will damage her brain. Every person's brain does not fully develop until their early 20's. Her brain is still growing and with the added levels of drugs her brain is not developing at the rate it should.

 

[Padua]

Indiana - congratulations! I'm sure it was difficult getting your kids through school with such good grades.

Your testament shows that with hard work and love from parents a child with disabilities CAN make it in this world.

Kudos.

 

[Kat]

Kat - that's true. Testing usually takes between 2 to 6 hours depending on the individual.

However, looking at her writing (grammer, spelling, etc) I think it is safe to give an ESTIMATED IQ. Her verbal skills are also telling.

I'd also like to add drug use and alcohol use at her age will damage her brain. Every person's brain does not fully develop until their early 20's. Her brain is still growing and with the added levels of drugs her brain is not developing at the rate it should.

I understand what your saying Padua. I don't disagree with any of it. I question though if her IQ can be estimated from her writing skills given that those can be impacted by other learning disabilities. I'm not informed enough to hazard a guess at which might impact that though.

I think what I'm trying to say is that although her writing skills could appear to be that of someone that is intellectually challanged ~ could it not also be indicative of someone that has a learning disability that would also affect those same things?

As I said in an earlier post, I can't argue against her having either of these problems but I can't argue for it as of right now either.

JMHO.

 

[Donjeta]

Her handwriting skills reveals alot about what levels she's operating in academically, mentally and age wise.

Why shouldn't, why can't, she be tested? What's the problem? What's the harm to Haleigh's case in finding out the most we can about the last person with Haleigh? Not directed at you Flossie. :blushing: I tried copying pasting her handwritten note agreeing to take the polygraph. Oh my goodness, how LE could accept that letter without questioning her mental abilities, academic levels is beyond me.

BBM. I don't think we know that. They may or may not have a pretty accurate picture of her mental and academic level, they just haven't made any comments about it.

Do we know that she has never been tested?

 

[oh_gal]

Thanks everyone, for your input and insight. I'd like to add that I don't really like the word "slow," but because I was trying to find the easiest, most commonly understood word, that's what I used. I agree that being cognitively impaired doe not necessarily equal mental retardation, nor does being cognitively impaired mean one will act dishonestly.

As to whether or not Misty is cognitively impaired, I defer to those among us with life/education/work experience for direction on that matter.

 

[Padua]

I understand what your saying Padua. I don't disagree with any of it. I question though if her IQ can be estimated from her writing skills given that those can be impacted by other learning disabilities. I'm not informed enough to hazard a guess at which might impact that though.

I think what I'm trying to say is that although her writing skills could appear to be that of someone that is intellectually challanged ~ could it not also be indicative of someone that has a learning disability that would also affect those same things?

As I said in an earlier post, I can't argue against her having either of these problems but I can't argue for it as of right now either.

JMHO.

To be diagnosed with a LD here is the process:

1. Give a mental status exam to rule out neurological problems.
2. Give an IQ test to establish that the person is not severely below ave. In an IQ test there are numerous mini tests. Then the test is scored, averaged, error is also added in.
3. Give an Achievement test. Also a compilation of mini tests including - WRITING and the different aspects that go into writing, math, LANGUAGE SKILLS, etc.
4. Give a personality test to rule out disorders that could cause low functioning (depression, anxiety...)
5. Combine EVERYTHING, interpret all results...
6. Give recommendations

This is why it costs $250 an hour! And, why I get a LOT of no shows because it is hard to afford if you don't have insurance.

 

[Padua]

Oh - and to add - there has to be greater than a 10 point difference between IQ and Achievement scores.

And, ADHD has to be ruled out as well.

 

[I AM THE 14 CAR]

14car - Misty's printing is here, page 3: http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/wtlv/docs/mistycummingspretestrelease8_26_09.pdf

Thanks, thats a great example !!!

 

[I AM THE 14 CAR]

I looked at her handwriting and watched a few videos. I'd estimate her IQ as being 80 to 85. But I've never evaluated her.

I bet her IQ is higher than that, especially if she is dyslexic.

 

[Padua]

I bet her IQ is higher than that, especially if she is dyslexic.

I would love to give her a psych eval!

Tell me more about your statement, not sure what you meant.

 

[Kat]

To be diagnosed with a LD here is the process:

1. Give a mental status exam to rule out neurological problems.
2. Give an IQ test to establish that the person is not severely below ave. In an IQ test there are numerous mini tests. Then the test is scored, averaged, error is also added in.
3. Give an Achievement test. Also a compilation of mini tests including - WRITING and the different aspects that go into writing, math, LANGUAGE SKILLS, etc.
4. Give a personality test to rule out disorders that could cause low functioning (depression, anxiety...)
5. Combine EVERYTHING, interpret all results...
6. Give recommendations

This is why it costs $250 an hour! And, why I get a LOT of no shows because it is hard to afford if you don't have insurance.

Padua thank you so much for outlining the testing. I appreciate it so much. Very informative!

Warning Off topic to thread but wanted to tell Padua.

As an aside and off topic I wanted to share that one of my children did undergo the IQ testing. It turned out to be very funny in one way ~ not so funny in another LOL.

At the age of 10 the school admins pulled me in because his hand writing was completely illegible, and although he was not a behavior problem in class he didn't do any work, refused to participate, sat at his desk and read or worked on his math book because that was what interested him...

I consented to the testing because I deeply love my children and wanted to make sure he didn't have issues that needed to be dealt with KWIM?

I go back for them to explain to me all the test results and when I walked in, there was a look on their faces that scared the jebus out of me. I thought ~ oh no! Oh man...whatever it says, I love him and will do everything in my power to advocate and support him.

Turns out that after all the testing and the adjustment of the scores he scored a 140. I had no idea what that meant at the time...now I do...it means that this kid has outsmarted me the whole 18 yrs that I have raised him LMAO. Lil' booger. He's a good kid though, smart but he took a long time to get motivated and challanged in school. Advanced classes really didn't challange him and then he had developed a bit of a cocky attitude that the teachers didn't appreciate much (neither did I for that matter but I loved his butt anyway!) He's outgrown that now.

So I knew that the IQ testing is very involved, I don't understand most of it but they did explain it to me and how the testing works...etc. (he didn't get that from me as you can tell :wink

Anyway, sorry for the off topic but as you outlined this testing can be very involved (both tests) and it does support my viewpoint that at this point in time it's impossible to tell exactly what if any issues MC is having and how they impact her ability to function.

Thanks it was a very interesting post!

 

[Padua]

I'll be back later!

 

[Noexcuse]

I would love to see Mistys handwriting.
I live in a dyslexic world but Im not dyslexic. My kids, hubby and all inlaws on FILs side of family is. I volunteer with Dyslexic & dysgraphic kids.

As for , Sly & Slow....they CAN go hand in hand and it starts very young. Young kids with dyslexia when first exposed to REALLY having to learn, start building their own "coping skills". Sly can come in at this point. They can skillfully avoid or even lie about things to protect themselves from scary unknown issues...self esteeme, getting in trouble, classmates making fun of them, getting bad grades, punishments, etc. Ive seen this starting as early as Pre-K...by 3rd grade they are REAL Good at it.

They are Visual Thinkers...they think mainly with pictures (photographic memory) and feeling, not sounds or words (little internal dialogue).

Slow is self explainatory. To us, its more like constant confusion in their brains and contantly trying to figure out "order", sequence, etc.

Of all of the dyslexics that I know....and I know alot....they can tell you story and almost everytime they tell it, its different but can be different in particular ways (hard to explain). Kinda like trying to go from point A, to B, to C, to D....blindfolded with racing thoughts. Stuttering & "going blank" happens ALOT, especially when flustered, nervous, etc. Sentences arent complete or halted, confusion when trying to "explain" something outloud, deep breathing (sighing).

Memory is major problem but sometimes when they are young (early elem. school) dyslexics develope their own memory games to cope with dyslexia...and this skill changes as the child ages. Long term memory is good IF it was experienced...like learning to ride a bike: If one reads instructions on how to ride a bike - you still cant ride a bike, you have to "experience" the task of learning to ride a bike (hope that makes sense).

Bad behavior and/or acting out is common. Being a class clown is common. Being a loner is common. etc...Sometimes emotions can be erratic, especially when confused, flustered, nervous, etc...

Confusion about directional words & memory...
First-last, before-after, next-previous, over-under....
Yesterday-tomorrow, next week, last week (directionality in time)
Knowing right-left isnt automatic.
Telling time withOUT using a digital clock is hard.

It is a common belief that children with dyslexia compensate by using different areas of their brain and they are, in many cases, very creative thinkers and have high IQs.


I dont know Misty and I have no opinion on her guilt or whatever BUT...if she has learning disabilities, imo, she should be tested by professionals. If she is diagnosed correctly, imo, LE or whoever needs this knowledge to better understand her.


This is all just mu opinion based on life experiences by me.
ETA....I am speaking of CHILDREN/teens with learning disabilites...not so much adults.

Excellent Post! my daughter is Dysgraphic and Dyslexic. She has trouble remembering how to spell common words over 3 letters long. Is terrible with directions;North, South, Left, Right. Needs a diigital watch too tell tiime but has an I.Q.of 130.

 

[I AM THE 14 CAR]

To be diagnosed with a LD here is the process:

1. Give a mental status exam to rule out neurological problems.
2. Give an IQ test to establish that the person is not severely below ave. In an IQ test there are numerous mini tests. Then the test is scored, averaged, error is also added in.
3. Give an Achievement test. Also a compilation of mini tests including - WRITING and the different aspects that go into writing, math, LANGUAGE SKILLS, etc.
4. Give a personality test to rule out disorders that could cause low functioning (depression, anxiety...)
5. Combine EVERYTHING, interpret all results...
6. Give recommendations

This is why it costs $250 an hour! And, why I get a LOT of no shows because it is hard to afford if you don't have insurance.

I want to add that as this is true in your area, it differs (Texas) here in many areas, so I assume it could be different in Fl also.

Our school district professionals handle ALL of the testing which does NOT require any physical, medical or mental evaluations, except hearing & vision which they do anyways. The Texas Education Agency has a near 100 page book for our schools on how to diagnose Dyslexia and other related disorders and the provisions, laws, etc.

The first clue is if anyone else in the family has dyslexia or other LDs. Otherwise, its all "data gathering" from the childs folders, test results, academic levels in diff. areas & progress, intelligence results, academic history, developement history and all those written/reading mini tests and Multisensory (brain games).
Kids here arent required to have the ( FIE )Full Individual Evaluation unless they are moving into the Special Education Services.

Most of this can be started as early as K or first grade (data gathering).
If people get deeper into LDs than just dyslexia/dysgraphia...then it could go into nuerologists and other medical & mental doctors.

Im starting to think Misty may have more going on than the run-of-the-mill dyslexia or related disorder. Makes me wonder if anyone in her family also has any LDs.