Where are the 2 LITTLE GIRLS seen with PG?

[Natal]

Well, I'm just pointing out given the geography, the low profile the Garrido household kept, how long she was there, and how long ago it was, she may not exactly be a reliable witness. She may not be lieing in the sense that is her recollection, but that doesn't mean that it is true.

It is worth pointing out that the LE disclosure of the original report made no mention of how many children were there, just that there were children. The first mention of the specific number of children and ages was made once by her just after Jaycee was discovered, and to a tabloid reporter. Robinson, who lived at the same house at the same time and for much longer doesnt mention these extra girls (or much about Jaycee and her kids either, for that matter). Neither do any of the other common border neighbors. Also, as far as we know, Jaycee and company have not mentioned anyone else in the backyard. They would have noticed, you would think that they would have mentioned it (they certainly would have been asked) and if they did you would think that LE would be less ambivalent about these third party reports we keep hearing about.

 

[time]

Jimmy Lee, spokesman for the Contra Costa Sheriff's Department, which heads the investigation, confirmed that police are looking into the disappearances of a handful of young girls, including two who are ages 6 or 7.

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/celebrity/67369

So, this sounds like they know of a 'handful' of girls who are reported missing?

 

[Billylee]

Someone asked me yesterday what I'd be looking for on more surveillance tapes from the local Chevron station. If, in fact, PG was brazen enough to take Jaycee out in 1992, then if there were other girls, what about looking at the tapes to see if any or in those tapes in one of his vehicles with him or Nancy??? I am not clear about what year these "other children" were cited, like when did the barber say he saw other children with PG? That station said they didn't have tapes until 1995. Would it have been after that, do they keep them? If he was taking kids with him to the barber, then he could have been taking them anywhere.

 

[songline]

Someone asked me yesterday what I'd be looking for on more surveillance tapes from the local Chevron station. If, in fact, PG was brazen enough to take Jaycee out in 1992, then if there were other girls, who about looking at the tapes to see if any or in those tapes in one of his vehicles with him or Nancy??? I am not clear about what year these "other children" were cited, like when did the barber say he saw other children with PG? That station said they didn't have tapes until 1995. Would it have been after that, do they keep them? If he was taking kids with him to the barber, then he could have been taken them anywere.

BBM
6 months before the arrest.

 

[time]

Someone asked me yesterday what I'd be looking for on more surveillance tapes from the local Chevron station. If, in fact, PG was brazen enough to take Jaycee out in 1992, then if there were other girls, what about looking at the tapes to see if any or in those tapes in one of his vehicles with him or Nancy??? I am not clear about what year these "other children" were cited, like when did the barber say he saw other children with PG? That station said they didn't have tapes until 1995. Would it have been after that, do they keep them? If he was taking kids with him to the barber, then he could have been taking them anywhere.

Good thoughts. The only problem I see is the time it would take to go through tapes... and where would you start? Maybe if Garrido has used an ATM card that could pin down dates. More and more, I think Garrido took lots of risks and has been brazen for a long time.

Maybe someone in the area knows this. I looked up the Chevron gas station in Oakley, but when I looked up that address on Google maps and looked at the "Street View" it looked like it had been torn down. I'm not sure how this is possible though because when the story about 1992 was on the news, they made it look like they were at that Chevron. Anyone know what the correct address is?

 

[JakeTucker]

If you check the People magazine text bottom of page 64 continued page 66 it talks about the gas station incident and goes on to say when JC was asked by detectives "She does not recall an incident like that".
But I guess that still leaves doubt. JC was 12 and we know for sure that she had already been stunned by that time. God knows what else. You read stuff like she remembers everything, generally speaking now, but couldn't there still be repressed stuff?
Anyway about surveillance tapes. I can imagine for certain locations every tape ever made is kept but a place like a gas station? I can't imagine a tape being kept longer than somewhere between a week and a month before they are recorded over. I remember watching a report of the gas station incident that said at the time they had no surveillance cameras and it also reported the year when they had a system installed. But I can't remember the year off-hand.

 

[Billylee]

If you check the People magazine text bottom of page 64 continued page 66 it talks about the gas station incident and goes on to say when JC was asked by detectives "She does not recall an incident like that".
But I guess that still leaves doubt. JC was 12 and we know for sure that she had already been stunned by that time. God knows what else. You read stuff like she remembers everything, generally speaking now, but couldn't there still be repressed stuff?
Anyway about surveillance tapes. I can imagine for certain locations every tape ever made is kept but a place like a gas station? I can't imagine a tape being kept longer than somewhere between a week and a month before they are recorded over. I remember watching a report of the gas station incident that said at the time they had no surveillance cameras and it also reported the year when they had a system installed. But I can't remember the year off-hand.

I actually HOPE to God that Jaycee was able to repress a whole lot of what happened to her in the beginning. You know the shackles in there and all that! I don't know how else you could live with those kinds of awful memories without somehow blocking them out. But, that is also why I said IF it was Jaycee in 1992 (remember, it also could have been Michaela, they looked a lot alike).

The report showing the Chevron station said they didn't get tapes until 1995.

 

[i.b.nora]

I am deleting my whole post. I made a mistake and it threw off the whole conversation. Very sorry.

 

[Billylee]

"... when did the barber say he saw other children with PG?"

According to an article in the San Francisco Chronicle, Family says tabloid's grown-up Dugard pic isn't her "A caption in the Enquirer said the photo was from the back of one of Garrido's business cards. "The striking blonde pictured on the back of it was introduced to barber Thompson as Garrido's daughter Alissa," the caption says.

Thompson is Wayne Thompson, owner of Wayne's Barbershop in Pittsburg. Although the Enquirer has a policy of paying sources for stories, Thompson said he had given the card to the tabloid for free. He said he hadn't seen Dugard in recent years and had told the Enquirer as much."

http://www.kron4.com/News/ArticleVi...en with Alleged Jaycee Kidnapper/Default.aspx

from the above:

NTIOCH (KRON) -- Antioch police now say they want to talk with Phillip Garrido's former barber about reports the accused rapist and kidnapper was seen with two unidentified younger children.

"He just came in for his haircut and he had two other little girls with him," Wayne Thompson told KRON 4's Maureen Kelly. "I would say maybe around six or seven years old, maybe a little younger. I don't know who they were. I thought they were neices or something like that. I thought they were family members. I didn't really think anything of it at that time. I thought he was just a family oriented guy."

Investigators now say they will ask Thompson for more details about these younger children and their possible connection to Garrido.

Sorry for any confusion, but I'm not talking about the business card at all here (that's another thread), not even referring to Jaycee, I'm referring to the above reported sighting of two "other" little girls by the barber, I would like to know around "when" he saw them? In the audio, he also refers to "seeing all the others", in other words, these kids weren't the same kids. There are problems with this audio, so I couldn't get what he said at the end. But unfortunately, it doesn't say "when" he saw this girls.

There's links to all of these sightings at the beginning of this thread.

 

[i.b.nora]

Sorry for any confusion, but I'm not talking about the business card at all here (that's another thread), not even referring to Jaycee, I'm referring to the above reported sighting of two "other" little girls by the barber, I would like to know around "when" he saw them?

My mistake completely, sorry.

 

[LinasK]

There is a Micheala already here under Cold cases. So does Christine Eastin, also missing from Hayward. You may all want to go there and read it. I don't think Ilene does, but maybe we should start one for her? The more people talk about these things, the more people might remember some little thing that will break open the case, I know that's how their families feel.

Actually, I have started threads for Ilene Misheloff in Cold Cases, and Missing Not Forgotten here. You can search by name, find them in the archives and bump those threads if you like... Somedays I feel like I'm posting to myself...

 

[Billylee]

My mistake completely, sorry.

No problema...thought maybe I wasn't being clear

 

[Billylee]

Actually, I have started threads for Ilene Misheloff in Cold Cases, and Missing Not Forgotten here. You can search by name, find them in the archives and bump those threads if you like... Somedays I feel like I'm posting to myself...

ditto! I couldn't find Ilene's, I'll go look again! Thanks.

 

[SunnieRN]

A few pages back we hashed out whether or not the witness sightings of the two other girls had any merit. The conclusions were to draw a time line and witness recollection of the incidences of when they were seen. Before the barber gave his story, Erika recalled her sighting of the girls in the back yard in 2006. She said there were 5 girls from ages 4 to adult. She had NO reason to lie about this incident. Should her recollections be deemed untruthful because they were in the NE? I have seen someone here quote the NE as a source in other instances and then de-bunk witness testimony in this case because it was in the NE? Not sure what the reasoning would be behind that?

After this, people began doubting the barbers story, saying that he said "the picture on the business card was Jaycee", which was a direct misquote of his words. He said that pg told him the picture was of Alyssa. Again, what reason did he have for lying?

If there is NEW information, the subject is important to re hash. If not, the time line of sightings and witnesses is a good tool to have available and it is within this thread and backed by links.

Is it possible that people as recently as 6 months to 3 years ago were mistaken that there were children between 4-6 that aged to 6-7, that were sighted with pg? Of course. Is it probable that all of these people lied? Doubtful.

 

[Billylee]

Sunnie, did you listen to the audio from the news in my post 474, in this thread? We are not talking about the barber and the business card at all. We're talking about this audio and report that says he saw two little girls, "other than the previous ones" he'd seen with Garrido. I wanted to know if anyone knew when that sighting was supposed to have been. I'm asking because, this is when I personally would start trying to drum up surveillance tapes from the Chevron (if they were even available).

 

[SunnieRN]

Sunnie, did you listen to the audio from the news in my post 474, in this thread? We are not talking about the barber and the business card at all. We're talking about this audio and report that says he saw two little girls, "other than the previous ones" he'd seen with Garrido. I wanted to know if anyone knew when that sighting was supposed to have been. I'm asking because, this is when I personally would start trying to drum up surveillance tapes from the Chevron (if they were even available).

Yes I did Billylee, which is why I was surprised that it led to questioning the validity of the sightings by another poster. Sorry if you were offended by my post, as it was not meant toward you in any way, shape or form.

I hope that lead pans out, but unfortunately in checking the area I live in, the stations use loop tapes, or regular tapes they re use.

 

[Natal]

NE would report what people are quoted as saying. They can be used as a source for that, but it doesn't mean that what those people were saying is accurate. It may be accurate, it could be half true, it could be a misinterpretation of events, it could be clouded by time, or it might be fabricated.

Such reports can be used as a starting point, especially when there is no other information to go by, but when there is, or there is context to the report, then you can start making judgement calls as to how reliable that information is.

 

[anthroamy]

A few pages back we hashed out whether or not the witness sightings of the two other girls had any merit. The conclusions were to draw a time line and witness recollection of the incidences of when they were seen. Before the barber gave his story, Erika recalled her sighting of the girls in the back yard in 2006. She said there were 5 girls from ages 4 to adult. She had NO reason to lie about this incident. Should her recollections be deemed untruthful because they were in the NE? I have seen someone here quote the NE as a source in other instances and then de-bunk witness testimony in this case because it was in the NE? Not sure what the reasoning would be behind that?

After this, people began doubting the barbers story, saying that he said "the picture on the business card was Jaycee", which was a direct misquote of his words. He said that pg told him the picture was of Alyssa. Again, what reason did he have for lying?

If there is NEW information, the subject is important to re hash. If not, the time line of sightings and witnesses is a good tool to have available and it is within this thread and backed by links.

Is it possible that people as recently as 6 months to 3 years ago were mistaken that there were children between 4-6 that aged to 6-7, that were sighted with pg? Of course. Is it probable that all of these people lied? Doubtful.

My personal opinion on NE is that you have to look at the context of the article. They do recycle quotes, and many of the other old tricks. Some of the articles are obviously complete bunk. Remember the story about Jaycee being taken back to the crime scene? To me that was so obviously false for many reasons (No. 1 being that a few days before Radar Online posted some trespasser's pictures of the backyard and it was leveled. There were no tents or sheds to take her back to. 99% of the stuff had been taken into evidence or hauled off.). Anyway, without going OT too much, I don't see why Erica Pratt or the barber would lie, regardless of where their stories were published. I'm all for reviving the timeline on these two girls and trying to keep it clean and up to date.

 

[SunnieRN]

NE would report what people are quoted as saying. They can be used as a source for that, but it doesn't mean that what those people were saying is accurate. It may be accurate, it could be half true, it could be a misinterpretation of events, it could be clouded by time, or it might be fabricated.

Such reports can be used as a starting point, especially when there is no other information to go by, but when there is, or there is context to the report, then you can start making judgement calls as to how reliable that information is.

How about the San Francisco Gate?:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/08/27/BA4N19EJ35.DTL&tsp=1


Erika Pratt, 25, who stayed next door two years ago, said she was continuously "freaked out" by Garrido's behavior and that when she popped her head over the fence she saw his secret compound. There were tents, sheds and pit bulls, she said, and water hoses leading from her house next door.
'They never talked'

"He had little girls and women living in that backyard, and they all looked kind of the same," Pratt said. "They never talked, and they kept to themselves."

Pratt said people came and went from the property, but the core group consisted of two girls about 4 years old, one girl about 11, another girl about 15 and a young woman about 25. They were all blond, she said.

Pratt said she had called Contra Costa County sheriff's deputies to investigate, but that officers "told me they couldn't go inside because they didn't have a warrant. So they just told him they'd keep an eye on him."

Information on the source of the article, found at the bottom of the page:

Chronicle staff writers Matthew Yi and Matthew B. Stannard contributed to this report. E-mail the writers at dbulwa@sfchronicle.com, jvanderbeken@sfchronicle.com, hlee@sfchronicle.com and kfagan@sfchronicle.com.

This article appeared on page A - 1 of the San Francisco Chronicle

 

[time]

I think we've pretty much determined from many different sources that there is strong evidence that there could be other girls, younger ones. And, now with others looking at pics and what was in Garrido's house, and the possibility that he was given time before arrested to remove other girls/people from the house, it adds further dimensions to those strong assumptions. I still suspect it could be children of someone who was a friend of Garrido that we don't know about, possibly a religious follower if he had any (did he?). However, I cited something earlier where LE made it sound as if they had evidence there were other girls missing.