TX - Mass Shooting at Fort Hood, 5 November 2009 #1

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BBM- Its easy (and probably natural) to feel hate and anger at a time like this, but hate seems to be a driving force in these killings and so many others, and fuels more hate/ violence.

I agree that there are no excuses for this mass killing. But it's important to identify the triggers and background info so that they can prevent the same thing happening in the future.


Also I want to note that PTSD is not exclusive to those who have been in combat.


I am not making excuses for this mass murderer. He chose to take the life of so many innocent people- nobody forced him to do that. But he was being forced to take part in the killing of others in his upcoming deployment, even if he wasn't frontline.

I just can't get past the fact that this may never have happened if he was not forced to stay in a place he clearly did not want to be. Surely he could have left and repaid his debt as a civilian. An anti- American, anti-war extremist soldier has no place in the forces.

Prayers for everyone affected by this senseless tragedy.

Why the hell did he JOIN the Army then? Answer that.

I can hate him if I want to and I want to right now. I'm not going to kill anybody. I don't want to "understand" bad people anymore. Let's give them their just deserves. I'm feeling NO sympathy for him :loser: at the moment.

Adding - I see now it's the fault of the Army. I agree the Army authorities should not have to be politically correct and appease every belief (to the exclusion of Jesus) and not step on anyone's toes lest the "different one" cries out prejudice, etc. Let some other country take in all the radicals of the world - freedom does not mean degradation.
 
Why the hell did he JOIN the Army then? Answer that.

I can hate him if I want to and I want to right now. I'm not going to kill anybody. I don't want to "understand" bad people anymore. Let's give them their just deserves. I'm feeling NO sympathy for him :loser: at the moment.

I don't know what his motives for joining were and I don't have sympathy for him either. Although I do think its awful that he was harrassed because of his religious beliefs.

In an interview with The Washington Post, Hasan's aunt, Noel Hasan of Falls Church, Va., said he had been harassed about being a Muslim in the years after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, and he wanted out of the Army.

"Some people can take it and some people cannot," she said. "He had listened to all of that and he wanted out of the military."

I do have sympathy for those that were killed and injured and those who had to witness the shooting spree, and wish they had've been protected by getting this guy OUT instead of forcing him to stay when his belief system and psych issues were well known.
An attempt to understand him is not to excuse him, it is purely about prevention. I think we would all like to prevent the murder of innocent people.
Please understand that I'm not trying to tell you how to feel. Like I said, its natural to feel angry following something like this.
JMO

ETA- Don't know if this has already been posted, but this article is a good read.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kamran-pasha/a-muslim-soldiers-view-fr_b_348973.html
 
I don't believe this guy was taunted about being a Muslim. He was a Major and an M.D. Who taunted him? Lieutenant Colonels? Other physicians?
 
We have a program here dedicated to wellness and transitioning back from war zones to home. I have heard some good things about it.

Mt PERSONAL opinion is that this was not a hate crime, nor a random act of violence...retaliation maybe - huge maybe....but I feel this was all about his religious belief.

The fact that the shooting took place at the last stop for deploying soldiers says so much if you ask me....

I think it is possible he went into a panic at the thought of being sent into a battle zone where he was expected to kill people who believe the same thing he does. Or something along those lines.

This is all with the assumption that he was working alone... either along side or under someone else's direction.


He is a psychiatrist, not a combat soldier. He would not have been killing anyone.
I agree with those who think his choice of location says something about his motive for these murders. He chose a deployment station.
If think his obvious planning negates the possibility that this was a result of psychosis. I don't buy the PTSD excuse. No one should be harassed for any reason, but that should not be enough to cause PTSD which is usually a result of witnessing or being the victim of horrible atrocities.
Is he crazy? Possibly to some degree but he knew what he was doing. Why did he choose to kill innocent soldiers? Why didn't he just kill himself? These types of mass murderers want revenge, they want notoriety, they want to be seen as having done something "big". How pathetic.
I feel sorry for all the Muslim or middle eastern soldiers in our armed forces whose lives this jacka$$ just made all the more harder. I'm sure it's not easy being Muslim in the U.S. armed forces today. But I know there are many such soldiers who are proud Americans and are serving their country by giving 100%. Now this character comes along and creates a cloud of suspicion against all of them.
Why wasn't this guy screened better? Why wasn't he allowed out of the military or discharged based on his seeming loyalties? I think it is simple. We are in the middle of two bloated and difficult wars with no end in sight and we just don't have the manpower needed to deal with it. The U.S. armed forces have no one to spare. I don't know the solution to that, at this point. If we get out now we are leaving very volatile territories ripe for the extremists to take over. And now, we have 45 less that were so desperately needed.
 
I would never hate all Muslims because of this man's actions. I do hate seeing accusations of hate in admonishments to stifle reasonable observations and justifiable anger.

Forced denial only creates more resentment, even if hidden under the surface for a time.

Being too cowed by PC to act on their observations about this man (see reports like this one) and walking on eggshells around the problem helped keep this man in the position he was in and ultimately got those soldiers killed. IMO

With the issues he demonstrated even in med school, I don't think he should have been put through to his MD at all.

:twocents:
 
I don't believe this guy was taunted about being a Muslim. He was a Major and an M.D. Who taunted him? Lieutenant Colonels? Other physicians?

I did wonder about that as well. he's not a common foot soldier among a bunch of 20 year olds. However, I heard one Muslim ex-soldier, also a physician, who says the envirnoment can be very cliquish and isolating for those that don't "belong". I just don't care, though. I mean, I guess I care as far as preventing something like this from happening again, but I don't know how preventable mass murders are. I need an education about that. And, I just cannot find a reasonable excuse for killing innocent people, willfully and with malice. There was no reason to take others with him to wherever he thought he was going.
If it was due to some extreme, jihadist view, that's very scary because that makes pretty much all middle eastern or Muslim Americans seem suspect. If you can't trust a U.S. armed forces officer, who is a psychiatrist. Who can you trust? He gives a bad name to an entire group of Americans who do not deserve it. I wonder if the extremists think about that when they get involved in the things they do. Do they care about all the regular Muslims who just want a house, a job a family and a quiet life in the United States? Thanks alot, man. You not only murdered a bunch of innocent people and destroyed your own life, you also just screwed your own people.
 
I would never hate all Muslims because of this man's actions. I do hate seeing accusations of hate in admonishments to stifle reasonable observations and justifiable anger.

Forced denial only creates more resentment, even if hidden under the surface for a time.

Being too cowed by PC to act on their observations about this man (see reports like this one) and walking on eggshells around the problem helped keep this man in the position he was in and ultimately got those soldiers killed. IMO

With the issues he demonstrated even in med school, I don't think he should have been put through to his MD at all.

:twocents:

Being an opponent of the war and deeming oneself Muslim first and American second has no bearing on whether a person should be a doctor. Just switch Christian with Muslim and you might see what I mean. Many expect people to value their faith over their nationality and Islam istelf is not the problem.
However, as this guy was an OFFICER IN THE MILITARY, his anti-war views should have been closely examined. But, as I said above, it is a question of stretched resources. The military can use every single body it can and it's still far short of what is needed. Obviously mentally ill soldiers are sent into, or kept in, combat, every day as a result of this. Remember the shooting at the mental health center a while back, in Afghanistan (I think)?
 
Taking a hard look at this case, I don't think this has anything to do with true mental illness. It may have been an act of terrorism. I say that in part due to his views and the fact that he yelled "Allah Akbar" when killing everyone. God is great? Not usually what a revenge-killer/crazy mass murderer yells when killing people.
 
Taking a hard look at this case, I don't think this has anything to do with true mental illness. It may have been an act of terrorism. I say that in part due to his views and the fact that he yelled "Allah Akbar" when killing everyone. God is great? Not usually what a revenge-killer/crazy mass murderer yells when killing people.

Sounds a bit like the kind of thing family annihilators might say to their families before they slaughter them.
 
Some people hate Americans. They hate us for taking the side of Israel. No one can deny it - it's true. Hate, hate, hate, hate - they spend their whole lives hating and trying to get what belongs to others versus making something of what they already have. :loser: It'll never end. That's how I feel today anyway.

What does it matter what you or I believe if we are civil to one another? I have participated in many groups in different parts of the world where we have done this and have taken an interest in the other's culture, beliefs, heritage, etc. We all are a product of our environments to some degree. But all of this killing, hating and madness is too much. I don't get it at all and - well, it has to do with power, poverty and withholding freedoms from people - but why does any powerful person want to spend his life this way? God does not author this behavior - no way, no how. But, God reserves the right to judge, not I. I can have an opinion though and this guy did not help to win converts to his religion.
 
Being an opponent of the war and deeming oneself Muslim first and American second has no bearing on whether a person should be a doctor. Just switch Christian with Muslim and you might see what I mean. Many expect people to value their faith over their nationality and Islam istelf is not the problem.
However, as this guy was an OFFICER IN THE MILITARY, his anti-war views should have been closely examined. But, as I said above, it is a question of stretched resources. The military can use every single body it can and it's still far short of what is needed. Obviously mentally ill soldiers are sent into, or kept in, combat, every day as a result of this. Remember the shooting at the mental health center a while back, in Afghanistan (I think)?
Stretched resources are definitely a problem, as are stress and PTSD. :( I just think they are beside the point in this case, and people use them to distract us from the issues they want us to ignore.

In this case, I believe the real problem was with his religious views and loyalties, and people didn't report or act on all the red flags they should have, because they were afraid of such a touchy subject.

We need a balance between bigotry and political correctness. I think most of us are in that balanced center and should stop letting the vocal minorities screw everything up. ;)
 
Live streaming video from Fort Hood vigil on statesman.com home page now


ETA

It's making me cry -- nurse talking about experience in ER yesterday right now
 
current moon phase is at 79% full.........in the Waning Gibbious at 7:22pm
so yesterday it was still alittle fuller........
 
current moon phase is at 79% full.........in the Waning Gibbious at 7:22pm
so yesterday it was still alittle fuller........

is the wobble moon phase over, passionflower? almost over??

please say it is.
 
I don't believe this guy was taunted about being a Muslim. He was a Major and an M.D. Who taunted him? Lieutenant Colonels? Other physicians?

There is at least one documented incident.....

Hasan recently was involved in a spat with another Fort Hood soldier residing in his apartment complex, apparently related to his Muslim beliefs.

The manager of the complex, John Thompson, said the other soldier, John Van de Walker, allegedly keyed Hasan's car and also removed and tore up a bumper sticker that read "Allah is Love." Thompson said Van de Walker had been in Iraq and was upset to learn that Hasan was Muslim.

A report filed with Killeen police on Aug. 16 indicates that Hasan's vehicle, a 2006 Honda Civic, had been scratched by an unknown object causing an estimated $1,000 worth of damage. The report indicates that Van de Walker, 30, was arrested on Oct. 21 and charged with criminal mischief. The matter has been referred for prosecution, according to the report.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_go_ot/us_fort_hood_shooting_suspect
 
Warning: Rant below

I applaud each and every poster here who is a member of our military, a spouse, parent, in-law and friend of our military. I pray for each and every one of you who make sacrifices for my family and me. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Have you seen ONE country that our soldiers are fighting in to help their people step up and send a message in the past 24 hours to the US men and women in Fort Hood to say, "We support you. We appreciate you and our hearts go out to you?" No?

I say lets send every non-US citizen back to his/her own homeland. If he/she doesn't wish to go home, then find an island in the ocean and send them there. If you ARE a US citizen and you don't want to support your homeland, you, too, can ride the boat. I don't care where the heck you come from and your higher power is my God, your Allah, Jehovah or the Easter Bunny, and you get tagged as having expressed ANY ideations of religious fanaticism that causes you to think of maiming and killing innocent people, ship your azz there, too. You can all take it out on one another. We'll bring our men and women in uniform who are out trying to save countries that don't want us there anyway, back home and they can serve our borders to help keep the rest of the world OUT of our homeland.

If a person says, "I changed my mind, I want out of the military", cut them loose and offer them a ride to said island. If your heart isn't in serving the committment you made to our government, then we shouldn't want you, either.

If not allowing Mr. Hasan to cut his time short in a military that his heart was no longer in was due to the $300,000 or so it costs us to educate him, it would have been a he&& of a lot cheaper to take a loss than the loss of our innocent soldiers and the expense it will cost you and me to defend Major Hasan, recover and rehabilitate the ones injured and then keep Major Hasan alive in military prison or infirmary until the year 2050 before we execute him. Looks to me like letting him out of the military would have been a real bargain!

I'll see you after my TO.
 
Taking a hard look at this case, I don't think this has anything to do with true mental illness. It may have been an act of terrorism. I say that in part due to his views and the fact that he yelled "Allah Akbar" when killing everyone. God is great? Not usually what a revenge-killer/crazy mass murderer yells when killing people.

Umm, yes it is! Have we all forgotten the lesson of 9/11? How about the war? What religious group do the people that are trying to kill our troops belong too? Christians? Maybe Jews? The Buddhists? No, it is 100% a subset of Islam/Muslim.

If you are on a plane, or a crowded area, and someone yells "Allah Akbar", you better get over any political correctness you may have and do something.
 
what senseless destruction this egomaniac caused!!! he was bullied? what, is he 8 like my youngest kid? a psychiatrist without coping skills? again, physician, heal thyself!!

6 out of the 13 of these priceless honorable murdered men and women have been named. i cannot imagine the grief engulfing their families. a couple of them just enlisted last year, one was about 50 and a nurse only wanting to help his fellow soldiers, one wanted to see the world, one was newly pregnant for goodnesss sake. oh what a shanda
 
Umm, yes it is! Have we all forgotten the lesson of 9/11? How about the war? What religious group do the people that are trying to kill our troops belong too? Christians? Maybe Jews? The Buddhists? No, it is 100% a subset of Islam/Muslim.

If you are on a plane, or a crowded area, and someone yells "Allah Akbar", you better get over any political correctness you may have and do something.

A real life nightmare situation in the modern world. "Allah Akbar" is definitely a battle cry for Islam and Muslim extremists. If I heard that, I'd be pretty sure the odds of me coming out alive weren't good.

Anyone remember the commercial pilot who brought his jet down? IIRC, he kept chanting Allah Akbar.
 
Live streaming video from Fort Hood vigil on statesman.com home page now


ETA

It's making me cry -- nurse talking about experience in ER yesterday right now

You know, I really feel for all those who have to care for the shooter.
 
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