Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

[Harmony 2]

Thanks, eaglemom!! I need some help here. I read the above referenced information and am totally stymied! The way I read it makes it sound like no chloroform was found. Will someone else read and correct me, please?

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/11911-11987.pdf (page 75)

On page 75 it says no chloroform was found on the doll (Q244) or in the dark yellowish unknown liquid substance (Q241) from the vehicle.

I see that the whitish murky liquid was not specifically identified. It talks about testosterone being found. Where does it say chloroform was found? Is that in another report since it is being reported in the media that chloroform was found? Can someone please direct me to that report with a link? TIA

 

[sleutherontheside]

I've said it before on this forum & I'll say it again!
It ain't meat til it's on the table.

Yep.....I think that table will be located in the Orange County Courthouse.

 

[whisperOFwings]

Respectfully BBM

A piece of beef served on a silver platter must go through a process in order to render it "dinner". Steak does not begin as steak. The metaphorical "beef" in this case is methodically making its way to the plate. It's just not done yet.
Once it is......Bon Appetit.

:blowkiss:

 

[lizzysf]

As I've said, the syringe certainly does not prove premeditation. Nothing I'm aware of ties Casey to the syringe or the chemical mixture (concoction) or the testosterone. Moreover, nothing I'm aware of -- like blood or DNA on the needle -- ties the needle to Caylee, much less to it being the instrument of her death.

Moreover, neither am I aware of evidence that ties either the bag or the Gatorade bottle to Casey.

As before, my question remains: where's the beef?

Right under the pile of rubber biscuits the defense has been throwing at it... dig a little...you'll find it.

 

[Wudge]

Again...you're forgetting the "aggravated child abuse".

I did not forget the aggravated child abuse and manslaughter charges. My focus has been on the huge void of inculpatory evidence needed to prove the murder one charge.

For the record, like the murder one charge, the bug report can't prove either aggravated child abuse or manslaughter. We don't know how Caylee died, nor do we know the circumstances surrounding her death.

Some people appear to think the law permits substituting guesses for evidence.

 

[lizzysf]

I've said it before on this forum & I'll say it again!
It ain't meat til it's on the table.

ETA: And the SA is setting the table.

Wash up!

 

[Just Jayla]

This makes me think of that quote from Casey: "They haven't even found her clothes yet!"

I don't think Mama doll was found, either. The doll in LE's possession is not the one Caylee was photographed with on two different occasions at least, recent occasions.
Mama doll has a pink outfit, which might still be on the doll, wherever that doll is.

 

[Dear Prudence]

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/11571-11670.pdf
page 11641 gives the specific results on the chloroform for Q238.1 (liquid in)the Gatorade bottle

The other url pages 11911-11987 gives the synopsis report from Dr. Rickenbach.

Sorry for the confusion.

Is there any report besides this chart on p. 11641 that says chloroform was found in the bottle or syringe? I do not know how to read this chart but I am not seeing a match here. This chart on p. 11641 on item Q238.1 looks just like the chart on item Q244 in which the report explicitly states no chloroform was detected. (see p. 11945 for the chart and p. 11985 for the results here: http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/11911-11987.pdf )

The only place I have read that cholorform was found in the syringe is on the Orlando Sentinel's website. Please someone tell me I just missed it in the FBI reports.

 

[eaglemom]

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/11571-11670.pdf
page 11641 gives the specific results on the chloroform for Q238.1 (liquid in)the Gatorade bottle

The other url pages 11911-11987 gives the synopsis report from Dr. Rickenbach.

Sorry for the confusion.

I am going to use bad form and quote myself - this is in post 328. I suspect it is going to come up a lot...

I am NOT a scientist - this is the chart I found that relates to chloroform in the documents.....

 

[QB.]

Really trying to figure this out, (thinking as the Defense would, Thanks to Wudge) Did the Disney bag belong to KC? Where was the Gatorade bottle? Is it possible it was just part of trash dumped in the area?

The Defense will shoot this down in no time, unless directly tied to KC.

BBM

There is no way to know that at this point, imo. I remember reading from the last doc dump that the gatorade bottle was inside the disney bag and the disney bag was near the skull with a plastic bag with a knot. The 3 items were together. I made notes and made a diagram of it.

The syringe was inside a wrapper inside the bottle, according to the recent doc dump, I suppose it could be possible that prints could be preserved if there were any. We can only speculate at this point but the presence of chloroform leads one to draw conclusions. Up until now I didn't pay too much attention to the bottle, I thought it was just trash and not connected.

 

[tracy87]

i think i read that the syringe was 3cc, was the size/gauge of the needle ever reported?

the size/gauge of the needle could be a indicator of the intended use of the needle and may then give a clue as to where kc could have obtained it.

if it was a smaller gauge such as 22 or 23...common size for injectables. anyone who gives themselves or family members IM injections would have access to these.

however...

if it was a large gauge such as as 16 or 18...those needles are used for mixing/drawing up meds....would have to have come from someone in the medical field. and would narrow the field of places to obtain.

 

[lizzysf]

i think i read that the syringe was 3cc, was the size/gauge of the needle ever reported?

the size/gauge of the needle could be a indicator of the intended use of the needle and may then give a clue as to where kc could have obtained it.

if it was a smaller gauge such as 22 or 23...common size for injectables. anyone who gives themselves or family members IM injections would have access to these.

however...

if it was a large gauge such as as 16 or 18...those needles are used for mixing/drawing up meds....would have to have come from someone in the medical field. and would narrow the field of places to obtain.

23 gauge is what it looks like. You can see by pic it isn't a 16-18. And it is a 3cc. Pretty easy to sort out when there are usually only 4-6 different needle gauges used typically.. SQ, IM, and larger for mixing/drawing up. It is definitely not a SQ needle or a 16-18.

 

[Oakley]

from the Sentinel article sited above

Testosterone is a natural occuring hormone in men and women. Levels decline gradually with age and the hormone can be prescribed as a controlled steroid to prevent or reduce osteoporosis, diabetes, cardiovascular disease and other diseases and disorders.

<Snipped and BBM.>

This may be totally lame but... could the testosterone found simply be from the severe decomposition of a very young child contained in a small area at the height of Florida's heat (as stated above, levels of testosterone decline gradually with age.) Could it just be a by-product of Caylee's remains decomposing???

 

[celticthyme]

HELP ....I'm so bad at finding things, does anyone have the colored photo of the gatorade bottle & syringe from OCSO crime scene? I can not find them . .
thanks

 

[ThoughtElf]

Not trying to stir the pot or anything, but this has been a good thread so we need to care for it & nurture it properly. The topic is not premeditation.

Can we all cooperate so it doesn't go off the rails & get closed? Thnx.

 

[lizzysf]

<Snipped and BBM.>

This may be totally lame but... could the testosterone found simply be from the severe decomposition of a very young child contained in a small area at the height of Florida's heat (as stated above, levels of testosterone decline gradually with age.) Could it just be a by-product of Caylee's remains decomposing???

Nope.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

since Cindy was a nurse..i wonder if she kept syringe needles/supplies at home?

It would be very possible. Remember she also cared for her parents so the syringe could of came from anywhere. Maybe someone in the family had to take insulin, testosterone, or any other injectable medication, very possible of anyone in the family.
Anyone can go to a local drug store and buy syringes. Maybe she bought some at target or another local store, that would be something if they had that on tape or from receipts from the car...

Or as some have said maybe Cindy brought some home from work as extras not thinking anything of it. Could be a number of reasons...they are easy to access though.

 

[Just Jayla]

I did not forget the aggravated child abuse and manslaughter charges. My focus has been on the huge void of inculpatory evidence needed to prove the murder one charge.

For the record, like the murder one charge, the bug report can't prove either aggravated child abuse or manslaughter. We don't know how Caylee died, nor do we know the circumstances surrounding her death.

Some people appear to think the law permits substituting guesses for evidence.

As long as the state can successfully tie the duct tape to KC's person, and they have already tied it to her house, they have aggravated child abuse. It does not matter if she was playing a game with Caylee, it is abusive to tape a 2 year-old's mouth.

The medical examiner already determined when the tape was placed on Caylee's mouth (not after her death), so if the defense wants to disprove that, they have to cast doubt on Dr. G.

This abuse still carries the DP when the victim dies, as I'm sure you know....the defense will have to tie SOD to the duct tape and Caylee at the time of the murder, regardless of the ultimate method of murder.

If the defense disagrees about the time of the murder, they have the state's plant guys and the bug guys to deal with.
The plant guy will be easier to cast doubt upon than the bug guys, since the plant people were not to-the-day accurate.

I appreciate you're turning over every stone as far as presumption of innocense or non-guilt in a DP case. It would be an state attorney's dream if everything lined up perfectly, but it won't, and in reality it does not have to. Inferences will be made by the jury, and the justice system goes a long way to make sure that those inferences are limited to small leaps.

That's the thing about this whole case, a lot of small leaps are coming together to form a nice path/murder scenario-The biggest leap to date still seems to be the name ZFG and Sawgrass.

 

[I Din Doot]

Well, this brings a new meaning to "kill by the sword, die by the sword."

"Kill by the needle..."

You deserve more than THANKS!!

 

[lizzysf]

It would be very possible. Remember she also cared for her parents so the syringe could of came from anywhere. Maybe someone in the family had to take insulin, testosterone, or any other injectable medication, very possible of anyone in the family.
Anyone can go to a local drug store and buy syringes. Maybe she bought some at target or another local store, that would be something if they had that on tape or from receipts from the car...

Or as some have said maybe Cindy brought some home from work as extras not thinking anything of it. Could be a number of reasons...they are easy to access though.

Not ruling out whether Cindy swiped some from work. In home health...supplies for the nurses are kept in the office for their visits. If her agency did any blood draws, IV meds then syringes would be there. But I believe since Testosterone was in the syringe it was either used for Testosterone injections at the A's (George) OR it came from somewhere else and is likely anabolic steroid. Who else would Casey know that needed therapeutic Testosterone injections which are given to older men?