Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

[magic-cat]

I saw that they analysed it, but didnt see what was in it other than cleaning solution. What cleaning solution? brown cleaning solution?

Actually I do believe the brown liquid was in the Crystal Lite bottle...this liquid was a murky white color.:innocent:

 

[QuietStorm]

From what I read, chloroform stored in plastic reacts with the plastic and creates a gas (phosgene) which was used in WWI. Also, it is true that while using it she could have possibly been overcome with it as well. That's why I think she did alot of reading up on how to make it, etc. LE found traces of ethanol in the syringe. From what I've read, not only does it stabilize the chloroform, but it also accelerates its effects. The more I read about this, the more I'm astounded. I really think she knew what she was doing. Personally, IMO, she had the gloves and masks available to use while making it from CA (who is a nurse). The needle I think she stole from a BF who may have been self injecting with steroids. That's just my opinion. The high levels in the trunk IMO could be from the beginning stages of the reaction with the plastic. From what I've read it will not react with some plastics. That may be why it remained in the syringe. That's just MO. She didn't store it in a black bottle because she wasn't going to use it again. Just my :twocents:

I respect everyone's opinion, but anyone who has studied those phone reports might wonder how this talk and text addicted, attention addicted, selfish woman-child can sit still long enough to successful make a very reactive chemical substance? I am not saying it's impossible, but I am having a hard time picturing it. Maybe if her true goal was to use it for sexual activity I could picture it. I think she could be careful enough and give it enough attention to make it if she thought it might help her out in the sex department. Or maybe if she thought it would put the baby to sleep long enough to have her fun I could see it. But to use it strictly for murder, I can't see it. Too many easier ways to kill a child as sad as that is. Still, when in the world was she making it? She was on the phone almost 24-7 and I can't see her talking and texting away while mixing up a batch of chemicals.

 

[lizzysf]

I respect everyone's opinion, but anyone who has studied those phone reports might wonder how this talk and text addicted, attention addicted, selfish woman-child can sit still long enough to successful make a very reactive chemical substance? I am not saying it's impossible, but I am having a hard time picturing it. Maybe if her true goal was to use it for sexual activity I could picture it. I think she could be careful enough and give it enough attention to make it if she thought it might help her out in the sex department. Or maybe if she thought it would put the baby to sleep long enough to have her fun I could see it. But to use it strictly for murder, I can't see it. Too many easier ways to kill a child as sad as that is. Still, when in the world was she making it? She was on the phone almost 24-7 and I can't see her talking and texting away while mixing up a batch of chemicals.

Ice, bleach, acetone.. she could probably do this easier than baking a cake. And with all day long to do nothing...but forge emails for a fake job she had to prove existed.. what makes one think she wouldn't take the time to whip up a batch of Chloroform if so inclined? It was researched for a recipe.. She probably had all but 1 of the ingredients at her house already.. Not far-fetched to me.

 

[wendypi]

IF she concocted the kidnap ruse before murdering her child, the duct tape could simply be "proof" that Caylee was kidnapped?

My theory only: Crasey killed CA that morning (either with the chloroform or by other means) and then as you mentioned threw her in the pool to make it look like a drowning (or CA drowned accidentally). When she couldn't get a hold of her parents, she realized too much time had passed and people would question why she didn't call 911. Or she realized her parents would be P.O'd at her and never forgive for being irresponsible...so off to plan B. She borrowed the shovel to get CA out of the pool and placed her on the lawn. She decided she was going to make it look like a kidnapping, so she wrapped her in duct tape and then concealed her body in the bags from the house and put her in the trunk. She kept her body in the trunk until she could figure out how to get her story straight in her head. Unfortunately for her she lets too much time go by and the car starts to stink....she still has no plan. She can't dispose of the car with Caylee's body in it...because LE will be able to pinpoint TOD and people will be able to testify that Crasey was driving the car after CA was already deceased...so to continue with the kidnapping plan...she douses CA and her trunk with chloroform and disposes of CA's body and all evidence...then drives the car to get rid of it, call 911 and report someone chloroformed her and while she was unconscious stole her car with her daughter in it. Unfortunately, the car runs out of gas by the Amscot so she has no choice but to dump it there. Crasey calls Tony to pick her up(who see's the car, so now she can't report the kidnapping). So she let's as much time go by as possible so the trail and evidence goes cold...again MOO.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Many people do this after swimming away from home, throw their suits and towels etc into the trunk so they do not wet the interior of the car.

I think that is his point. Pool water and sweat can produce chloroform. Throw the suit in the trunk and you can have traces of chloroform in the trunk.

 

[ynotdivein]

I think that is his point. Pool water and sweat can produce chloroform. Throw the suit in the trunk and you can have traces of chloroform in the trunk.

Traces ok but ppb versus ppt?

(parts per billion vx. parts per trillion)

 

[ThoughtElf]

I know you weren't asking me, but I wanted to let you guys know that the pages I referred you to ARE the results you're looking for. If you're unable to read them and understand them for yourself, you'll have to take my word for it, I guess. Those three chromatographs show you that they specifically analyzed for the three ions with the highest intensity that you would expect to observe when chloroform is fragmented. They observed a response at the same retention time when they did "selective ion monitoring" so they knew that this "peak" was actually chloroform. The fact that the mass spectrum that resulted from their analysis EXACTLY matches that of chloroform proves that there was chloroform in the sample. If you want me to explain the fragmentation pattern of chloroform and need me to explain in further detail, I'd be happy to, but I'm afraid I'll just bore everyone to death with the details and jargon.

You are doing an excellent job, and thank you for documenting the exact pages for th mass spec results, plus explaining the ions peaks.

We tend to tease, especially when we appreciate posters. I think that posting exactly as you do, is not the slightest bit boring at all. It is invalauble & instructional. There are a wealth of posters here who will understand it, and will bullet-point it for quicker reads for others in a hurry.

Hope you don't stop putting it all out there.

 

[lizzysf]

I know you weren't asking me, but I wanted to let you guys know that the pages I referred you to ARE the results you're looking for. If you're unable to read them and understand them for yourself, you'll have to take my word for it, I guess. Those three chromatographs show you that they specifically analyzed for the three ions with the highest intensity that you would expect to observe when chloroform is fragmented. They observed a response at the same retention time when they did "selective ion monitoring" so they knew that this "peak" was actually chloroform. The fact that the mass spectrum that resulted from their analysis EXACTLY matches that of chloroform proves that there was chloroform in the sample. If you want me to explain the fragmentation pattern of chloroform and need me to explain in further detail, I'd be happy to, but I'm afraid I'll just bore everyone to death with the details and jargon.

So quantitative analysis is still X, right? You need the contol info? We know it was there but just not how much?

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Traces ok but ppb versus ppt?

(parts per billion vx. parts per trillion)

I could be wrong, will have to try to find it again in the docs, but I thought the testing for chloroform in the trunk was tested using parts per trillion.

 

[notthatsmart]

Traces ok but ppb versus ppt?

(parts per billion vx. parts per trillion)

I understood the report to be that he concentrated the sample and that is what made it ppm or ppb. just my opinion

 

[tragco]

Mom's a nurse and has several needles here and there around the house -I always assumed that was common with that profession. ALSO, from what I read, this bottle wasn't found just lying around... it was actually IN the bag with the remains. Please someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Lanie]

The original report about the chloroform that came out so long ago stated unusually high amounts were found. Then more docs were released, and it stated chloroform was found in ppb, when normally what would be expected would be ppt. That can be up to 100 times, plus or minus, what would be normal under the circumstances.

I swore to myself I wasn't going to post on this subject anymore, lol.

 

[wendypi]

The bag that contained the crystal light bottle with the brown liquid in it...also contained a stainless steel knife. Hypothetical: Let's say the knife belongs to the set that the Anthony's use at home...and the liquid was chloroform....the two items in the same bag can then be linked to the Anthony's. That being said....you don't need finger prints or DNA to link the Gatorade Bottle or the syringe to Crasey...if you can link other things in the bag to the home...hence the cloth napkins...or whatever else may have been in the bag.

 

[ThoughtElf]

She seems like she has plenty of time on her hands and the devious imagination to create evidence of a job via fake emails etc..I don't think that making Chloroform is rocket science, and afterall, someone researched it for a recipe.. I think she is more mentally/emotionally affected than stupid.. while no braniac by all means..she gets by better than average on smarts..

She might have, but I suspect she would have become overwhelmed in the process and passed out.

For me, some scenarios are easier to envision than others. i.e. She steals. It's a mindset.

 

[JBean]

Mom's a nurse and has several needles here and there around the house -I always assumed that was common with that profession. ALSO, from what I read, this bottle wasn't found just lying around... it was actually IN the bag with the remains. Please someone correct me if I am wrong.

No it was found at the scene not in the bag with the remains.

 

[magic-cat]

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/11911-11987.pdf

Thanks! Page 75 of 77 of the document you provided clears up that the items were ALL retrieved from within the bottle...

Forgive me for sounding like such an idiot, but again, I could not determine from that report that any chloroform was indicated in ANY of the listed items. Am I just dense? What am I missing here?:waitasec:

 

[ThoughtElf]

Actually I do believe the brown liquid was in the Crystal Lite bottle...this liquid was a murky white color.:innocent:

To be really accurate, the sample was yellow with a cloudy/murky appearance. :innocent:

 

[lizzysf]

She might have, but I suspect she would have become overwhelmed in the process and passed out.

For me, some scenarios are easier to envision than others. i.e. She steals. It's a mindset.

I'm just thinking that locating it and stealing it would be an improbable jackpot... (the tattoo was after she killed Caylee).. it's not that readily available to steal. It would be way easier to make it in comparison.

 

[magic-cat]

I think that is his point. Pool water and sweat can produce chloroform. Throw the suit in the trunk and you can have traces of chloroform in the trunk.

Traces yes, but not in the extremely elevated levels which were reported, yes?

 

[JBean]

To be really accurate, the sample was yellow with a cloudy/murky appearance. :innocent:

well to be really accurate it was a "whitish murky liquid" hehehe

But the liquid from the car was yellow.