AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #5

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sdn8tv said:
There's a reason Roca has been kicked off the case...

I think the ending will surprise many people here...

He is not a danger to the community...the community is a danger to him. Remember none of those accusations presented by the prosecution were validated...
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I do believe the community is a danger to CR. But I don't believe we'll ever know the ending of this story. It saddens me to know how many people are willing to throw away a 9-year-old child. Maybe that's what's so wrong with our society.....
 
Linda7NJ said:
BBM

His own mother, IMO had much to due with that.

I take exception to the statement "until this happened" This didn't just happen, he caused it, he planned it and he carried it out.
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Why do YOU take exception to it? On the other hand...you're right this didn't just happen...his young life was very traumatizing...thanks to his FATHER and STEP.AHEM mother...If his mother caused anything leading up to this it was confusion...she spent a loving weekend that freed him from the environment he was living in...
So now we are going to start blaming his own mother.

Man I wish you guys really knew...
 
sdn8tv said:
He is not on house arrest.
Out of state was recommended due to his age not because of grave serious issues.
Show me a 9 year old who walks the streets "freely" in any community. I sure as heck don't let my 8 year old walk freely in the streets and I sure as heck wouldn't allow it is St. John's. It is a drug infested hole with a bunch of run down houses. There are a few nice homes splattered here and there. We are talking about a community where people put stones on their single wide trailers to make it look like a house.
He does play outside, he rides his bike, he goes fishing, he visits his friends house...guess what...he even got to carve a pumpkin and go trick or treating for Halloween
...and yes a family member needs to sign him in and out of the detention center for school...but isn't that typical of any juvenile leaving the facility. They don't just open the door and say "bye bye now". I think that might have something to do with a liability issue.
Contrary to what some people might think...this child is not walking around without a care in this world. He is a very sad child, he has had a very traumatized life in his short 8 years until this happened. He loved his father very much. He goes to his grave and cries and just layes with him. Yes maybe he didn't make the "smartest" decision and he knows this...as much as an 8 year old can understand long term consequences. This was not some idylic disneyland life he lived. Every adult in his young life disappointed him at some point.
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Thank you for sharing this info. :hug:
 
Fairy1 said:
I do believe the community is a danger to CR. But I don't believe we'll ever know the ending of this story. It saddens me to know how many people are willing to throw away a 9-year-old child. Maybe that's what's so wrong with our society.....
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I for one am not willing to throw away a 9 year old child. I had just the oppostive effect as some other reader. I found nothing cold, calculating story about his illegal confession. I was touched by the sadness in this little by a boy's life. I was touched by little boy who though if the made up this whole story that everyone would believe it and he could go home and live with his mother who loved him, protected him, didnt beat him, didn't push him...he wasn't afraid of her...

I agree...many people will not know the ending...and I thank God for that. The only chance this child will have is to get the heck out of St. John's and blend into a larger community where everyone doesn't know who he is.
 
OneLostGrl said:
Do you really trust shrinks that much? Two of them say something and it's carved in stone?
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Especially when they shared each others notes...amazing what people elect to believe and not believe.

Because the shrinks said so...they were paid 30K to say so...
 
OneLostGrl said:
Do you really trust shrinks that much? Two of them say something and it's carved in stone?
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I trust the standard tests that CR took that would play a huge part in their recommendations.
 
Linda7NJ said:
I trust the standard tests that CR took that would play a huge part in their recommendations.
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Linda -- respectfully -- et all......
We have not seen the full results of the tests or the recommendations. We are only getting snippets and single sentence "quotes", and quotes from a judge who has now been removed because of his improperly discussing the case and biasing his opinion (IMO with folks who were discussing based on their opinion, not on facts).

I do not know what the real recommendations are/were. Clearly, it has been shown this week, that the attorneys on all sides are finally coming together with what is best for this CHILD and a new (hopefully unbiased) judge will be assigned. (I really don't know how any judge in that whole state could not be biased at this point, though, just as I don't think he could get a fair jury trial without a change of venue -- if that were still on the table as a possibility.)

My point is -- I don't think any of us KNOW without a doubt what the diagnosis of this child is -- or what happened that day -- or what happened in any events in his life leading up to that day that might have caused him to do this, if he did......

It is my opinion that emotions and opinions on this case have run very high from both sides from day one -- not just on this board and others like it, but in the streets of St. John's and in the lives of scores of people who have chosen to follow it for a year now (yes, I know for a fact that there are SCORES of people still following this case.)

Regardless of which side of it we are on, I think all of us in our own way want what we perceive is best for this CHILD. I think some of us are on very opposite sides of what we think that is.

I do hope, regardless of the final outcome, that this CHILD is able to get through whatever treatment plan is put in place & that he is able to grow into having as normal a life as possible & that he is able to fade back into the world. I hope that whatever the plan is, it is not more traumatizing to him than what has already happened in his life.

I do not believe staying anywhere near St. John's is in the best interest for him or that community, or for his mother being able to pick up and develop a life where she can raise him and provide for him effectively and appropriately.

Basically, I hope they are given a chance to get the hell out of Dodge.......

All IMO & I'll go back to my lurking mode now.....
 
Psychiatrists are far from perfect, especially if they are paid by the state.
 
Linda7NJ said:
I trust the standard tests that CR took that would play a huge part in their recommendations.
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Do you realize how many people are misdiagnosed, undiagnosed and/or mismanaged? Many go their entire life (many dying by their own hand) being misdiagnosed after having countless "standardized tests" by countless mental health professionals. Many portions of these tests = self reporting (which is a joke) and many people are diagnosed with illnesses even if they do not meet all of the criteria.

I have no fight in this case.. I do however have a fight in mental health misdiagnosis and the lives (and deaths) of those who have been misdiagnosed. I have a fight in the effect misdiagnoses has upon society's views of those with mental illness and the stigma it causes.

I was misdiagnosed my entire life by I cannot even tell you how many doctors, hospitals and "tests". It happens every day!
 
sdn8tv said:
Especially when they shared each others notes...amazing what people elect to believe and not believe.

Because the shrinks said so...they were paid 30K to say so...
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Well that certainly isn't unusual sdn8tv. I have seen forensic psychiatrists testify in court and they say they looked at other doctors session records that had seen the defendant.

So is the theory now that the psychiatrists were just another part of this vast conspiracy? I am not sure why they are being accused as being biased because they were paid by the state. The boy was indigent and so was his mother. Who would pay for their diagnosis if it weren't the State?

So if a child is afraid of their parent or they shove them it is okay to just kill the parent(s) and be done with it? Another man too while they are at it? I understand that you and others do not see this child as I do and I respect that but I did not see a little boy lost and bewildered in his interview. He was very chatty and engaged and quite relaxed until he knew he was going to juvie imo. The part that bothered me the most is he seem to have no emotion over the loss of his father but I guess if he killed his father he had no emotions to show about his death. And how he denied killing Tim seemed so genuine yet in the end he had killed him.

I am not really all that interested in this case anymore but if this boy needs out of state treatment then he should receive it imo. If not that is just minimizing what he did when he single handedly took away two lives. Those two victims who have long been forgotten. In fact this case has never been about the loss of the victims but all about the defendant who did the acts, imo.

I don't think the psychiatrists are the evil doers. I think they recommended the best treatment they both feel this kid needs badly.

imo
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Well that certainly isn't unusual sdn8tv. I have seen forensic psychiatrists testify in court and they say they looked at other doctors session records that had seen the defendant.

So is the theory now that the psychiatrists were just another part of this vast conspiracy? I am not sure why they are being accused as being biased because they were paid by the state. The boy was indigent and so was his mother. Who would pay for their diagnosis if it weren't the State?

So if a child is afraid of their parent or they shove them it is okay to just kill the parent(s) and be done with it? Another man too while they are at it? I understand that you and others do not see this child as I do and I respect that but I did not see a little boy lost and bewildered in his interview. He was very chatty and engaged and quite relaxed until he knew he was going to juvie imo. The part that bothered me the most is he seem to have no emotion over the loss of his father but I guess if he killed his father he had no emotions to show about his death. And how he denied killing Tim seemed so genuine yet in the end he had killed him.

I am not really all that interested in this case anymore but if this boy needs out of state treatment then he should receive it imo. If not that is just minimizing what he did when he single handedly took away two lives. Those two victims who have long been forgotten. In fact this case has never been about the loss of the victims but all about the defendant who did the acts, imo.

I don't think the psychiatrists are the evil doers. I think they recommended the best treatment they both feel this kid needs badly.

imo
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A - I didn't say it was unusual...I simply said they were both paid by the state and they shared their notes...interestingly none of the other three mental heal providers came up with that same conclusion.

B- Vast conspiracy - what are you referring to? I will tell you there is a reason why the GAL quit, Ben Brewer quit and now the judge has been kicked off the case...

C - the boy and his mother were not indigent

D - I never said it was ok to kill a parent...nor am I saying it is okay to push an 8 year old down a flight of stairs or any of the "punishment of the day" this child endured.

E - Interesting that you were able to figure out this boy's psyche from watching a 46 minute interview, the day after his father was killed, with two armed police sitting beside him showing their weapons. Lack of emotion is a very common response to grieve or shock. In fact it was commented in the police report that BOTH the step mother and the boy seem to have a lack of emotion that night at the church...perhaps this is just the way this dysfunctional family learned to deal with things. Many Many Many kids who are victims of abuse learned real quick to hide their emotions...but this kid should be held to a different standard???Why???

F - I wonder if he got upset because "someone" told him that he wouldn't go to juvie...

G - I don't think the two psychiatrists are "evil doers"...in fact I know them both professionally...they are far from it, however you can see judge Roca gave very little credence to what they said. In fact he wasn't going to reschedule the hearing so that they could be there when they were unavailable.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Well that certainly isn't unusual sdn8tv. I have seen forensic psychiatrists testify in court and they say they looked at other doctors session records that had seen the defendant.

So is the theory now that the psychiatrists were just another part of this vast conspiracy? I am not sure why they are being accused as being biased because they were paid by the state. The boy was indigent and so was his mother. Who would pay for their diagnosis if it weren't the State?

So if a child is afraid of their parent or they shove them it is okay to just kill the parent(s) and be done with it? Another man too while they are at it? I understand that you and others do not see this child as I do and I respect that but I did not see a little boy lost and bewildered in his interview. He was very chatty and engaged and quite relaxed until he knew he was going to juvie imo. The part that bothered me the most is he seem to have no emotion over the loss of his father but I guess if he killed his father he had no emotions to show about his death. And how he denied killing Tim seemed so genuine yet in the end he had killed him.

I am not really all that interested in this case anymore but if this boy needs out of state treatment then he should receive it imo. If not that is just minimizing what he did when he single handedly took away two lives. Those two victims who have long been forgotten. In fact this case has never been about the loss of the victims but all about the defendant who did the acts, imo.

I don't think the psychiatrists are the evil doers. I think they recommended the best treatment they both feel this kid needs badly.

imo
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I read nothing that implies anything remotely near "vast conspiracy". I read, and agree with, questions asked about appointed psychologists. Yhe vicitms have not been forgotten, imho. But, given the way this case has been handled from the beginning, I cannot help but question if those in charge of this case considered the victims or simply, cutting to the chase, the media and their careers.

Screwed up from the very beginning. Imvho.
 
OrdinaryLife said:
I read nothing that implies anything remotely near "vast conspiracy". I read, and agree with, questions asked about appointed psychologists. Yhe vicitms have not been forgotten, imho. But, given the way this case has been handled from the beginning, I cannot help but question if those in charge of this case considered the victims or simply, cutting to the chase, the media and their careers.

Screwed up from the very beginning. Imvho.
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BBM

iMO Then you haven't been reading here from the start.
 
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