Identified! MA - Granby, off Route 116, WhtFem 15-26, UP14969, shallow grave, clothes, gold ring, Nov'78 - Patricia Ann Tucker

[wicky]

:sheesh: Oh well, back to the drawing board. Thanks for finding that.

 

[hmg]

It was a good suggestion given the date Wicky.

 

[Debbie Miller]

Bumping.

Anymore on this from the chief?

 

[Debbie Miller]

As far as moving company- bungie cords used to hold appliances and large items onto dolly, comes to mind.

detachable strap from a suitcase?

 

[crimetimesnl]

This is not the work of a truck driver nor the work of a serial killer. Their appears to be no "satisfation" from the kill from the point of the killer, instead the victim was killed because she had to be silenced. Drugs are not the cause of this murder, though the victim was a drug user.

You would have to look at more than one person involved in this murder, I would say two, but no more than three. The killers would be college students who use the hiking tracks. The victim may have been a prostitute (drug user) who was picked up by the college students and taken up to the tracks to smoke some "weed" and have some "fun". Things may have got out of control when the victim has refused to sleep with all of the men / she may have slept with all or one of the men and after asking for money was murdered. The men comming from a higher social/economical background would of seen the victim as "trash" and used her for their own entertainment, they would have had no problems shooting her and ending her life.

The men would have come from respectable middle income families who today would all have normal families of their own. The would work in profesional jobs. They would all keep this secret to themselves as they have too much to lose.

How long after the discovery of the victim did the college student kill himself in the same area ?, was it a case of a person living with demons of something he did in the past that wouldn't go away, did he go to the place that started the bad dreams about what he did or was involved in to end it once and for all.

Look at missing persons from the same area of not far from the same area, or look at past students who dropped out of college in the area, maybe due to drug abuse that affected their grades.

 

[webrocket]

When I read this case, I thought she came from the south of the area, like CT. So I perused around for some info on missing women from CT.

I was looking at www.doenetwork.org and found one of interest. Janice Pockett, is probably not the Granby MA doe but this page references six young women missing or found dead in the area of Tolland, CT, which is not that far (relatively speaking) from Granby. (I wonder who the other missing ones are?) Also the guy who killed Pockett claimed to have buried her in Lawrence, MA (although Lawrence is far from Granby)


Case File 85DFCT



As a general observation, the frontal tooth decay would probably indicate that she was not a college student in the area. Also, that shirt is strange. I realize that style change over the years but that shirt seems awfully juvenile for a woman of that age. There is no sophistication to the shirt nor does it look like anything a street walker would wear.

While this may sound harsh, I could not help but think that perhaps the woman was developmentally disabled (retarded as they would have said back then).

 

[carbuff]

<snip>
As a general observation, the frontal tooth decay would probably indicate that she was not a college student in the area. Also, that shirt is strange. I realize that style change over the years but that shirt seems awfully juvenile for a woman of that age. There is no sophistication to the shirt nor does it look like anything a street walker would wear.

While this may sound harsh, I could not help but think that perhaps the woman was developmentally disabled (retarded as they would have said back then).

In my admittedly not extensive experience, frontal tooth decay in a young person often (usually?) indicates a bad meth habit.

That shirt looks like a maternity/fat lady shirt to me. I used to have one a lot like it.

Here's Sandra's profile on Doe: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2832dfky.html

I don't think she looks like she'd be mistaken for a 19 year old personally. Also her hair does not appear to be long.

It's hard to tell from that picture, but her hair might well be swept up on the back of her head. Also, it wouldn't surprise me if that picture is from her college or even high school yearbook, not at all up to date. She's the right build and the right timeframe. The thing that makes me think she's unlikely is the fact she had two children. You'd think the autopsy would have caught that.

 

[carbuff]

This is not the work of a truck driver nor the work of a serial killer. Their appears to be no "satisfation" from the kill from the point of the killer, instead the victim was killed because she had to be silenced. Drugs are not the cause of this murder, though the victim was a drug user.

You would have to look at more than one person involved in this murder, I would say two, but no more than three. The killers would be college students who use the hiking tracks. The victim may have been a prostitute (drug user) who was picked up by the college students and taken up to the tracks to smoke some "weed" and have some "fun". Things may have got out of control when the victim has refused to sleep with all of the men / she may have slept with all or one of the men and after asking for money was murdered. The men comming from a higher social/economical background would of seen the victim as "trash" and used her for their own entertainment, they would have had no problems shooting her and ending her life.

The men would have come from respectable middle income families who today would all have normal families of their own. The would work in profesional jobs. They would all keep this secret to themselves as they have too much to lose.

How long after the discovery of the victim did the college student kill himself in the same area ?, was it a case of a person living with demons of something he did in the past that wouldn't go away, did he go to the place that started the bad dreams about what he did or was involved in to end it once and for all.

Look at missing persons from the same area of not far from the same area, or look at past students who dropped out of college in the area, maybe due to drug abuse that affected their grades.

I had a very similar impression of the crime -- rich (relatively) college kid fooling around on the side with a "local" girl who's easy. He offs her when she starts asking for money/marriage or threatens to go to his father. I rather doubt that he had demons. It seems to have been quick and brutal; he probably didn't even think of her as a human being, really.

Granby seems rather isolated, but besides all the college students, the Berkshires are a big tourist area and right off I-90. "Local" could include somebody driving up from the Troy NY area, from Connecticut, or over from Springfield MA to work in a local cafe or outlet mall.

 

[webrocket]

In my admittedly not extensive experience, frontal tooth decay in a young person often (usually?) indicates a bad meth habit.

Meth mouth is what they call that these days. However, in the mid-70's there was no smokable form of cocaine or meth so it was probably just poor dental hygeine, which probably indicates lower socioeconomic status.

 

[believe09]

Meth mouth is what they call that these days. However, in the mid-70's there was no smokable form of cocaine or meth so it was probably just poor dental hygeine, which probably indicates lower socioeconomic status.

Or someone who was dealt a genetic set of cards that made her prone to it...

 

[webrocket]

Or someone who was dealt a genetic set of cards that made her prone to it...

genetic or not, she lacked the money to fix her teeth, hence the lower socioeconomic status comment.

I did not say that as a put down, rather as a categorization to try to help identify her. It is the flip side of the young couple murdered in SC. The guy had expensive dental work done so they figured he came from a wealthy family.

 

[Slammed]

In my admittedly not extensive experience, frontal tooth decay in a young person often (usually?) indicates a bad meth habit

Or crack...did they even have meth back then? I think crack didn't even become that mainstream until a few years later. Thats the odd part

 

[believe09]

genetic or not, she lacked the money to fix her teeth, hence the lower socioeconomic status comment.

I did not say that as a put down, rather as a categorization to try to help identify her. It is the flip side of the young couple murdered in SC. The guy had expensive dental work done so they figured he came from a wealthy family.

I didnt think it was a put down-just throwing in my two cents...

 

[carbuff]

Or crack...did they even have meth back then? I think crack didn't even become that mainstream until a few years later. Thats the odd part

They most definitely had meth back then. It's been around since at least WWII, when it was made available to pilots and others who needed to stay awake for long periods of time.

I knew speed freaks in the late sixties, though they were all pill-poppers -- suburban women wanting to be thin took it as legally prescribed diet pills, truck drivers could buy it clandestinely but not exactly secretly at truck stops. I thought people were smoking it in the rural midwest and south by the mid-seventies -- crank -- but even ingested meth will cause tooth rot.

 

[Slammed]

They most definitely had meth back then. It's been around since at least WWII, when it was made available to pilots and others who needed to stay awake for long periods of time.

I knew speed freaks in the late sixties, though they were all pill-poppers -- suburban women wanting to be thin took it as legally prescribed diet pills, truck drivers could buy it clandestinely but not exactly secretly at truck stops. I thought people were smoking it in the rural midwest and south by the mid-seventies -- crank -- but even ingested meth will cause tooth rot.

Interesting, i originally meant free-basing cause i didn't know it would cause tooth decay in other forms. I guess that is definitely plausible then. I knew it had been around in other forms for a while...i think the japanese or chinese originally created it to increase productivity in factories IIRC but i didn't realize that its really been in this country that long. Thats bad

 

[carbuff]

Interesting, i originally meant free-basing cause i didn't know it would cause tooth decay in other forms. I guess that is definitely plausible then. I knew it had been around in other forms for a while...i think the japanese or chinese originally created it to increase productivity in factories IIRC but i didn't realize that its really been in this country that long. Thats bad

Yeah, it's bad.

Apparently the tooth decay comes from bad hygiene combined with drying out the mouth tissues, often with too much sweet carbonated beverage as a contributing factor. It's much much worse with freebasing.

Though I would agree that the UID might just have had bad dental hygiene or inadequate finances, or both. I'm starting to wonder whether she's a runaway.

 

[carbuff]

I searched in NCEMC for girls weighing between 120 and 170 lbs, whose current age would have put them at the age of the UID, and only turned up one who could really be called "chunky": Joyce Creola Brewer – The Charley Project She was 15 when she disappeared in Texas in 1970, so would have been 23 in 1978.

That would only catch those who were under 18 when they went missing. Since the UID is estimated to be adult, that's by no means all the possibilities.

 

[Slammed]

Yeah, it's bad.

Apparently the tooth decay comes from bad hygiene combined with drying out the mouth tissues, often with too much sweet carbonated beverage as a contributing factor. It's much much worse with freebasing.

Though I would agree that the UID might just have had bad dental hygiene or inadequate finances, or both. I'm starting to wonder whether she's a runaway.

Yeah i grew up with a few people that "only" drank soda since they were little kids. Now in their mid to late 20's and they have terrible teeth...and it's not from anything other than that. Makes me want to not drink soda at all now that i think about it

 

[hmg]

Someone mentioned the student who killed himself on the trail... that was in 2007 (maybe 2006?) and he was only in the area because his girlfriend was a student at Mount Holyoke.

At one point I thought it was very plausible for this young lady to be a prostitute but after seeing her shirt I'm not so sure. I don't want to stereotype what a prostitute might wear but the shirt doesn't seem like something a prostitute would wear. It actually seems very much like a shirt a girl in college might wear. I wouldn't include or discount anyone solely on the basis of the shirt though.

Another possible clue from the shirt is that it is short sleeved making it much more likely that she was killed in the summer than the winter or early spring.

Edit: I missed the part about someone saying the shirt seemed young, possibly due to the victim being mentally impaired. While it's certainly not sophisticated, it seems quite average to me. As I said, walk around a college campus with girls this age (I actually walk around the two women's schools in the area quite often) and you'll see many shirts similar to it with the layered look.

 

[hmg]

Someone posted on my blog recently about this victim inquiring about the size of the belt that was used to drag Granby Jane Doe. She listed another victim dragged by belt that some of you may be familiar with known as Little Miss Panasoffkee, a young lady around the same age as Granby Jane Doe killed in Florida. That Doe was dragged with a size 36 belt. Belt size may provide a clue in terms of the suspect.

Also, I'm sure most of you know this but Granby Jane Doe is now Case File 720UFMA on Doe.