AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #4

[legalmania]

Well, I hope now Tammi and Jack go to visit and their conversations are recorded. I kind of wondered why they didn't visit her in Florida.

I'm sure every word she's said so far has been recorded. This trip back should be interesting.

 

[OneLove]

And maybe they should be canvassing Nashville for pilots of small aircraft that recently left for a Mexican vacation. For that matter, he could easily be stashed with a "nanny" in Mexico for quite a while, long enough to "re-enter the system" or whatever that inane remark was that Jack made. Plenty of "unfortunate pregnant young girls" would love a nice long vacation in Mexico while they are themselves hatching a nice commision for a baby broker.

 

[legalmania]

3:30am here, I have to hit the sack. I feel a good news day for Gabriel incoming good night folks!

raying:

Oh my I just looked at the clock thanks ACL I would have talked through till daylight. Goodnight all.


----------------
Now playing: Sha Na Na - Goodnight Sweetheart
via FoxyTunes

 

[time]

3:30am here, I have to hit the sack. I feel a good news day for Gabriel incoming good night folks!

raying:

Same here, except earlier !

Let's all hope for good news tomorrow

 

[OneLove]

I'm sure every word she's said so far has been recorded. This trip back should be interesting.

I hope they have a female LE officer drive her back that "just happens" (harhar) to have an ex in her past that rejected her, ruined her life, and that she just hates and that she tells stories to EJ about the nasty things she's done to "get back" at him, all justifiably so! Maybe EJ will spill. Hope so.

 

[smart blonde]

I'm sorry guys, but, as much as I hope and pray for Gabriel's safe recovery, I am getting really bad feelings. Especially the longer this drags out, with no sign of him.

That car ride, with Elizabeth and Gabriel driving from Arizona to Texas is a long one. I'm worried he started crying (as babies do on long car rides with no one to comfort or distract them), and with Elizabeth driving, stressed, tired and a time bomb waiting to go off, she 'lost it', and in a moment of rage, she killed him. Just my gut feelings, and I pray to God I'm wrong.

Just the fact she had ever threatened to kill him to begin with, proves to me the thought was on her mind. That is not a normal thing for a mother to think or say about her baby.

I think she may not be telling where he is for the same reason that Casey wouldn't tell where Caylee was.

 

[legalmania]

I hope they have a female LE officer drive her back that "just happens" (harhar) to have an ex in her past that rejected her, ruined her life, and that she just hates and that she tells stories to EJ about the nasty things she's done to "get back" at him, all justifiably so! Maybe EJ will spill. Hope so.

Have it like this is your life. Have all the people she was mean to in her past like her teachers she disrespected, cousins, uncles, aunts. Last have Gabriel in his daddys arms. Nite all.

 

[Texas Mist]

I'm sorry guys, but, as much as I hope and pray for Gabriel's safe recovery, I am getting really bad feelings. Especially the longer this drags out, with no sign of him.

That car ride, with Elizabeth and Gabriel driving from Arizona to Texas is a long one. I'm worried he did started crying (as babies do on long car rides with no one to comfort or distract them), and with Elizabeth driving, stressed, tired and a time bomb waiting to go off, she 'lost it', and in a moment of rage, she killed him. Just my gut feelings, and I pray to God I'm wrong.

I think she may not be telling where he is for the same reason that Casey wouldn't tell where Caylee was.

I was thinking the same thing, until I thought about baby Shannon -- and how we were all afraid she was out there in the woods somewhere.

Then look what happened!

I hope LE has checked under the Smith's bed!

 

[OneLove]

I'm sorry guys, but, as much as I hope and pray for Gabriel's safe recovery, I am getting really bad feelings. Especially the longer this drags out, with no sign of him.

That car ride, with Elizabeth and Gabriel driving from Arizona to Texas is a long one. I'm worried he did started crying (as babies do on long car rides with no one to comfort or distract them), and with Elizabeth driving, stressed, tired and a time bomb waiting to go off, she 'lost it', and in a moment of rage, she killed him. Just my gut feelings, and I pray to God I'm wrong.

I think she may not be telling where he is for the same reason that Casey wouldn't tell where Caylee was.

Or maybe EJ is just another "spiteful betch" that is spiteful enough to keep Logan suffering, thinking that someday her "payday" will come and Logan will be cut out of it. Maybe she's been promised a glorious life if she just holds out long enough for Gabe to "re-enter the system" successfully. After all, she's all about revenge and fashion, right?

I can't get over that bizarre "re-enter the system" remark. Did they honestly think that would really work? :banghead:

 

[OneLove]

AND......(and then I'm getting some sleep)....

I think any Smith/EJ camp might begin to promote the "dead baby" story because they know a dead baby will NEVER be found and they will never hang for this egregious crime against an innocent child and his only rightful and loving parent.

I believe Gabe is alive and being well cared for while his mom waits smugly for her payoff and his broker thinks she's gotten even with her own exhusband by proxy.

The truth is that neither of them will ever have a decent life again unless Gabe comes home safely.

 

[Kateyes]

They are all screwed and they all have screws loose in their heads if they think anybody is buying into their stories.

My humble opinion is that TS was into baby brokering and had no intention of keeping Gabriel to raise but rather to hand him off to somebody else. The Smith's are back peddling so fast that their arses are hanging off the cliff right now. TS is all about money IMO and I hope LE has started rummaging through all their financial transactions.

Where is Gabriel - he needs to be found and as time passes finding him is critical. The story as a whole makes no sense whatsoever.

I was about to post the same opinion, but I was still reading to catch up when I read what you wrote. I too believe that TS is into brokering black market babies, and that she preys on mothers who appear unhappy, and uses strong-arm tactics when needed to get the bio dad's signature for guardianship. I have not yet worked out the exact logistics of how the transaction is carried out, but I firmly believe that TS is deeply into the broker end of things. I find nothing she or her husband says to be believable, and so many consistencies are evident. On one of the first NG epsiodes the bio father is seen in a video clip talking about TS telling him that he needs to sign the paperwork so EJ brings the baby back; in a subsequent video clip the Smiths are seen saying "What papers? We have no papers" and then looking at each other with feigned surprise. Very manipulative people - I hope LE looks into the financial records with a fine-tooth comb.

As far as baby Gabriel - I hope he is alive and is found with people who have taken good care of him, and given back to his father. But, I am very afraid that he is no longer with the living - another child who became a victim of his own mother. MOO

 

[smart blonde]

I was thinking the same thing, until I thought about baby Shannon -- and how we were all afraid she was out there in the woods somewhere.

Then look what happened!

I hope LE has checked under the Smith's bed!

Yes, I hope you are right, Texas Mist.

I followed Shannon's case, too. I was in awe when she was found alive! It was unbelieveable, and so exciting- because it is a rare case that has such a happy ending.

I believe that if Shannon hadn't been found by the authorities right when she was, she probably would not have lived even one more day. Remember, the woman (Susan Baker) whose bed Shannon was found under was involved and a named suspect in the disappearance of a little boy years before named Paul- and he has still never been found.

I think there is a good chance that Elizabeth was actually telling the truth in the text message she sent to Logan. Her demeanor in the jail interview is just too much like Casey's, for my comfort.

I hope to be proven wrong.

 

[Kateyes]

Indeed, and yet par for the course at the same time.
This is one weird case...

Yep - it sure is. Slightly off topic, but my husband will sit and watch episode of episode of NCIS while I am on the Websleuths website. When he asks me why I am so interested in Websleuths I tell him that I joined Websleuths to follow real crime - stories that you could not make up. On the other hand he watches NCIS and those episodes often mimic real life. Like Marvin Gaye sais, "Ain't nothing like the real thing..."

Seriously, after the crazy things we have seen from cases like Caylee Anthony, Drew Peterson, Scott Peterson, etc. etc. ya sometimes think how could anyone crazier come along. Well, here I am saying "here we go again."

The real tragedy of this case is Baby Gabriel's disappearance, and the psychos who surrounded him in his short 8 months since his birth. Prayers that he will be found alive, and that the mother will have her parental rights severed.

 

[Texas Mist]

I was about to post the same opinion, but I was still reading to catch up when I read what you wrote. I too believe that TS is into brokering black market babies, and that she preys on mothers who appear unhappy, and uses strong-arm tactics when needed to get the bio dad's signature for guardianship. I have not yet worked out the exact logistics of how the transaction is carried out, but I firmly believe that TS is deeply into the broker end of things. I find nothing she or her husband says to be believable, and so many consistencies are evident. On one of the first NG epsiodes the bio father is seen in a video clip talking about TS telling him that he needs to sign the paperwork so EJ brings the baby back; in a subsequent video clip the Smiths are seen saying "What papers? We have no papers" and then looking at each other with feigned surprise. Very manipulative people - I hope LE looks into the financial records with a fine-tooth comb.

As far as baby Gabriel - I hope he is alive and is found with people who have taken good care of him, and given back to his father. But, I am very afraid that he is no longer with the living - another child who became a victim of his own mother. MOO

This carp by TPS really ticks me off & makes me think too that she's not opposed to grey/blackmarket adoptions

"It seems to be a hard process adopting, and I don't know that we want to go through this again, unless the courts said, here's a baby and the parents both signed. That's different."

http://www.abc15.com/content/news/s...adited-to-Arizona/xgsbK2cK80iD5ZWBC0ifjg.cspx

ummmm - well yeah, it's a "hard", long drawn out process adopting when it's done legally, morally & ethically, & you're not treating the baby adoption process like an afternoon at a pet shop. :furious:

There's something not right about those people, IMO.

 

[Marigold]

I just finished catching up on reading the latest posts, hope everyone isn't in bed yet, lol.

About EJ's cell phone.. am I misrembering that someone found it under the seat of the bus so that's why some of the pings aren't reliable?

Oh gosh, I wish I could remember where I got that from, has anyone else heard anything similar?

 

[smart blonde]

I just finished catching up on reading the latest posts, hope everyone isn't in bed yet, lol.

About EJ's cell phone.. am I misrembering that someone found it under the seat of the bus so that's why some of the pings aren't reliable?

Oh gosh, I wish I could remember where I got that from, has anyone else heard anything similar?

I remember reading that, here on one of the previous threads, but I believe it was just speculation on the part of the poster.

 

[Marigold]

She would have to have a hearing to terminate her rights, but most of the time, if both parents are okay with one of them not wanting their rights, the judge goes for it.

It's been awhile since I've been in an AZ court for child support/custody issues, but iirc, AZ separates child custody/parental rights from child support and does not allow one parent to terminate the payment of child support, even if the other parent says it's okay. The only exception to this is adoption, iirc.

In other words, a parent can sign off on legal visitation or custody, but they must still continue to pay child support unless the other parent remarries and their spouse wants to accept responsibility for child support and adopt the child. I believe its based on the theory that each child has a right to be supported by two parents and neither parent can sign away that right.

I believe that even if EJ had signed away her parental rights, she would still have to pay child support unless Logan had a wife that wanted to adopt Gabriel.

 

[Marigold]

I remember reading that, here on one of the previous threads, but I believe it was just speculation on the part of the poster.

Thank you! At least I know that I wasn't remembering something that wasn't said... now I have to figure out if it was speculation or if it was reported on the news. I guess it's time for me to do more googling, lol.

 

[not_my_kids]

It's been awhile since I've been in an AZ court for child support/custody issues, but iirc, AZ separates child custody/parental rights from child support and does not allow one parent to terminate the payment of child support, even if the other parent says it's okay. The only exception to this is adoption, iirc.

In other words, a parent can sign off on legal visitation or custody, but they must still continue to pay child support unless the other parent remarries and their spouse wants to accept responsibility for child support and adopt the child. I believe its based on the theory that each child has a right to be supported by two parents and neither parent can sign away that right.

I believe that even if EJ had signed away her parental rights, she would still have to pay child support unless Logan had a wife that wanted to adopt Gabriel.

There is no state in the union that will terminate rights and still demand child support. Trust me. For personal reasons, I have had a lawyer check this nationwide. For custody and visitation and all that, yes, you still owe, but when your rights are terminated, so is all legal and financial responsibility.

 

[Texas Mist]

Yes, I hope you are right, Texas Mist.

I followed Shannon's case, too. I was in awe when she was found alive! It was unbelieveable, and so exciting- because it is a rare case that has such a happy ending.

I believe that if Shannon hadn't been found by the authorities right when she was, she probably would not have lived even one more day. Remember, the woman (Susan Baker) whose bed Shannon was found under was involved and a named suspect in the disappearance of a little boy years before named Paul- and he has still never been found.

I think there is a good chance that Elizabeth was actually telling the truth in the text message she sent to Logan. Her demeanor in the jail interview is just too much like Casey's, for my comfort.

I hope to be proven wrong.

ITA that jail interview was unsettling because she sounded so much like KC.

And it's a shame that if T&J are *not* involved in little Gabriel's disappearance, that they are muddying the waters of the investigation & using precious LE resources with their attempt at a media circus.

I swear, the Anthony's have changed murder investigations in the U.S. forever....remember, not so long ago when no one except an attorney or LE was in front of the cameras, and yeah, there were the 'usual' obvious nutjobs attempting to insert themselves in a case -- but 'normal' people wanted to distance themselves from the glaring lights & media microscope.

Not so any longer it seems.....Everybody wants their own reality drama broadcast, even if it's only via a couple minutes a week on a crime show.

I pray that little Gabriel is found safe by the time I wake up in the morning.