NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 1

[lost at sea]

Thats strange to me. I know several older guys who are over 30, single, LDS, and there is only one I suspect could be remotely gay out of 10 or so people.

Moot, anyways, since we are veering OT.

 

[higherpower]

Im not sure if this is ok to do but i had a friend of mine who is a PI run a background check on Webb. After all its all public information. He said there were no results for a Greg Webb in St George Utah. In fact there was no Greg Webb in the entire state that was younger than 40. I asked him what that meant. He said that he either hasnt changed his address in a long time and hasn't had any utilities in his name or he is not who he says he is. I'm going to have him check for Gregg Webbs in NV.

Do you guys know of any reasons why he would not show up in a legitimate background check (he does the background checks for business who are hiring and apartment complexes)? Does anyone have any idea where GW is originally from or how long he has lived in St George? Does he live with his parents?

I did do a Google search for him as well as a white pages search and no luck. i did however get on random result from a www.ussearch.com that gave me a Greg R. Webb from St George 27. No info other than that.

 

[Fairy1]

Thats strange to me. I know several older guys who are over 30, single, LDS, and there is only one I suspect could be remotely gay out of 10 or so people.

Moot, anyways, since we are veering OT.

You may be missing some obvious signs! I know very few 30+ LDS guys who are single and straight.

And I'm not sure we're veering O/T here.

 

[renn3434]

I've felt all along that his answer was poorly crafted (especially the phrase "do whatever it was he had to do", nobody says that in normal conversation) to make it sound like he knew especially little about what Steven was doing in Vegas. IMO, that's almost as concerning as saying he knew plenty about what he was doing there. He labored the point. He could have much more easily said, "I called him to ask if he would be at church but he said he wouldnt make it that day. I said I'd see him next week and hung up".

I could be GROSSLY overanalyzing his phrases here. I understand that. Webb could be completely uninvolved. But it needs to be double checked.

I couldn't agree more. I had the exact same thought.

 

[lost at sea]

Really dont think Im missing any.

I wonder if GW has seen this thread. I dont know how I'd react.

 

[Naegle]

Ok here's my update on GW. It's not everything, but it's more than I knew before. I'm still working on hammering it out though.

GW called Steven at 8:57 utah time. It was on the records. GW asked Steven if he could attend a meeting (I thought the meeting was in the evening, but that's not verified yet) in his place. Steven said he was in vegas, but would attend if he was needed. GW replied that he was on the road back to St George so he would go to the meeting himself.

Seth Aboud called Steven at 10:47 and asked if he would announce in church that people were getting together for basketball on wed the 16th. Steven said he couldn't because he was in vegas. Seth asked if Steven would be at basketball he said no.

Paul Doxey called Steven around 10:10 and asked if he could couver GW's meeting. Steven said he was in vegas. Paul said nevermind. Paul wrote this on FB, but it is not confirmed!

 

[Naegle]

Steven has brought a couple of girls to family things over the years. None were longer than a few months though. He lets me set him up on blind dates to and he's usually pretty excited to go.

 

[higherpower]

Also the assumptions about all healthy males that are not married by 30 are gay is ridiculous. i said it before that would mean at least half my friends are gay.

I would rule out the gay element though but gay or not gay Steven grew up with a friend that was LDS until he came out a few years ago. If Steven was gay and ashamed he could have least confided in this friend and gotten his support.

 

[lost at sea]

Ok here's my update on GW. It's not everything, but it's more than I knew before. I'm still working on hammering it out though.

GW called Steven at 8:57 utah time. It was on the records. GW asked Steven if he could attend a meeting (I thought the meeting was in the evening, but that's not verified yet) in his place. Steven said he was in vegas, but would attend if he was needed. GW replied that he was on the road back to St George so he would go to the meeting himself.

Seth Aboud called Steven at 10:47 and asked if he would announce in church that people were getting together for basketball on wed the 16th. Steven said he couldn't because he was in vegas. Seth asked if Steven would be at basketball he said no.

Paul Doxey called Steven around 10:10 and asked if he could couver GW's meeting. Steven said he was in vegas. Paul said nevermind. Paul wrote this on FB, but it is not confirmed!

Well this changes a lot. It answers a few questions but poses another few:

1. Why call if youre on your way back. Its 2 hours. The meeting was in the evening.

2. I also would now assume that GW called PD and said he wouldnt be there. Not knowing GW had called Steve, PD called the next alternate, Steven.

3. The above leads me to believe that GW told PD he wasn't headed back.

4. Still nobody to vouch that that was the extent of GW's call to Steven and doesnt change my theory that he weirdly worded his response to the question.

 

[lost at sea]

Naegle, any indication of how long GWs call was to Steven?

 

[Fairy1]

Also the assumptions about all healthy males that are not married by 30 are gay is ridiculous. i said it before that would mean at least half my friends are gay.

I would rule out the gay element though but gay or not gay Steven grew up with a friend that was LDS until he came out a few years ago. If Steven was gay and ashamed he could have least confided in this friend and gotten his support.

We're not talking about healthy males 30+ who are not married. We're talking, specifically, about LDS males. There IS a difference.

And if Steven is gay and uncomfortable about it or wishing it were not so, he very well may have not felt comfortable confiding in ANYONE, IMO. What happened to his gay friend? Was he embraced by the church. I'm going with NO.

It is possible to be gay and faithful at the same time. A person raised in the Church of the LDS may very well not be able to reconcile the two. Let's please not pretend that is not true. It will not be helpful here.

 

[higherpower]

My friend that does the background checks said he would help me out with any names i needed. If you have any persons of interest i could see if he could get some info on them.

 

[CONCRNED CTZN]

So his phone was turned on until it died? Did anyone try to call him and leave a message during that time period?

If there were messages on the phone, then that tells me that it was not Steven checking his messages on Monday. Do you know if the person was able to actually enter Steven's voicemail system?

 

[lost at sea]

Throwing drugs or illegals out of my equation earlier for the sake of argument; can anyone else think of something he may have been involved in moving that was shady, or he would be embarassed for his family to know about. Im not talking embarassed like ashamed. Just something they might think would be below him.

The key element I cant overlook is that of movement. He did a lot of it. What could he be moving or why would HE be moving in ways that required him to be places at certain times that was secretive?

 

[CONCRNED CTZN]

Naegle-

Did you post the cell phone tower of the last call?

Do we know where he was when he was talking to those other men? Was he in Utah or Vegas? This might help figure out where he was that night especially if Webb talked to him that much earlier.

 

[Fairy1]

Throwing drugs or illegals out of my equation earlier for the sake of argument; can anyone else think of something he may have been involved in moving that was shady, or he would be embarassed for his family to know about. Im not talking embarassed like ashamed. Just something they might think would be below him.

The key element I cant overlook is that of movement. He did a lot of it. What could he be moving or why would HE be moving in ways that required him to be places at certain times that was secretive?

Yes. I can think of something....

 

[lost at sea]

We're not talking about healthy males 30+ who are not married. We're talking, specifically, about LDS males. There IS a difference.

Im afraid Im with higherpower on this one. I think the attitude that LDS males over 30 are somehow so much more likely to be gay than that of the non-LDS community is utterly absurd. I do think guys in the church feel pressure to marry but not so much that it separates them from those same desires for and feelings of a need for adventure, experience, degrees, financial independence that non-LDS guys have. There are plenty of reasons LDS guys stay single past 30 rather than same gender attraction. My brother was 31 when he found his wife. Not gay. My sister was 27. Since LDS girls get a head start on guys on getting serious she must be a lesbian too.

Im not trying to be defensive but I cant get over how silly it all sounds.

BTW, im 26, LDS, male, and married as if that somehow makes my view less biased.

If we want to pursue the idea that somehow Steven being possibly gay is related to his disappearance, by all means, lets explore that. But lets let us draw that conclusion by doing more than thinking "He's over 30 = gay.".

 

[lost at sea]

Yes. I can think of something....

Which would be?

 

[laytonian]

Im not sure if this is ok to do but i had a friend of mine who is a PI run a background check on Webb. After all its all public information. He said there were no results for a Greg Webb in St George Utah. In fact there was no Greg Webb in the entire state that was younger than 40. I asked him what that meant. He said that he either hasnt changed his address in a long time and hasn't had any utilities in his name or he is not who he says he is. I'm going to have him check for Gregg Webbs in NV.

Do you guys know of any reasons why he would not show up in a legitimate background check (he does the background checks for business who are hiring and apartment complexes)? Does anyone have any idea where GW is originally from or how long he has lived in St George? Does he live with his parents?

I did do a Google search for him as well as a white pages search and no luck. i did however get on random result from a www.ussearch.com that gave me a Greg R. Webb from St George 27. No info other than that.

Sure. I'll bet Greg is his middle name. Or a nickname. Might live with mom and dad, and have only a cellphone.

If I were doing background checks for apartments and stuff, I'd be running
credit checks using a person's SSN. I tried running one of those "background checks" you see on the internet, on myself once. I came up as living in so many places, that it was hilarious.
NONE of them had the info correctly.

 

[Fairy1]

Im afraid Im with higherpower on this one. I think the attitude that LDS males over 30 are somehow so much more likely to be gay than that of the non-LDS community is utterly absurd. I do think guys in the church feel pressure to marry but not so much that it separates them from those same desires for and feelings of a need for adventure, experience, degrees, financial independence that non-LDS guys have. There are plenty of reasons LDS guys stay single past 30 rather than same gender attraction. My brother was 31 when he found his wife. Not gay. My sister was 27. Since LDS girls get a head start on guys on getting serious she must be a lesbian too.

Im not trying to be defensive but I cant get over how silly it all sounds.

BTW, im 26, LDS, male, and married as if that somehow makes my view less biased.

I totally appreciate and respect your opinion. Yet I wonder if your position would be the same if we were discussing a 30+ LDS female.

I would not consider your personal situation to lead you to be biased. But the teachings of the Church of the LDS would probably cause most to see it differently. In my experience, I would say your brother is an exception. Wouldn't you?

Clearly, there are a number of situations that could have caused Steven to walk out of his life and into another. Being gay is definitely one of them and should not be overlooked - for any reason. IMO.