AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #13

[trudysplace]

I wonder if either grandpa, the press, or Elizabeth left out a couple of words there to make sense of this now that I reread it all. Sounds to me like helping find her baby won't help unless they give her something in return on the 20 years. I'll try to take that as also meaning, she really thinks and her lawyers think this is not going to be a murder case. On the other hand, I guess her lawyers may not be making as much an effort to make a deal if they know LE/FBI has some indication Gabriel is dead - I just don't think that makes sense either. I sense Elizabeth just did not put as much effort into getting grandpa to understand as we would like and was really just telling him she was not suppose to tell him anything so quit asking.

I'll bet those court appointed attorneys have never experienced a case like this. But just how much legal experience do they have between them? How to defend the magnitude of this case is mind boggling. Just consider the fact that LE is not only searching for a missing baby, but also for a murdered victim.

My heart aches.


Point is, the FBI and LE (Peoria, San Antonio, Miami), have not given out any information and ultimately are responsible for not helping us to help them.

 

[STEADFAST]

I wonder if either grandpa, the press, or Elizabeth left out a couple of words there to make sense of this now that I reread it all. Sounds to me like helping find her baby won't help unless they give her something in return on the 20 years. I'll try to take that as also meaning, she really thinks and her lawyers think this is not going to be a murder case. On the other hand, I guess her lawyers may not be making as much an effort to make a deal if they know LE/FBI has some indication Gabriel is dead - I just don't think that makes sense either. I sense Elizabeth just did not put as much effort into getting grandpa to understand as we would like and was really just telling him she was not suppose to tell him anything so quit asking.

To me it means that telling LE where the dumpster was will not help her case. Her best bet, if she killed Gabriel, would be to not help find him at all and hope his body can't be found. She's already going to go down for kidnapping; why hand them a murder conviction on a silver platter? If she gave him away, her best bet would be to help find him and prove he is alive and avoid a murder case altogether.

 

[BeanE]

http://www.kpho.com/news/22266828/detail.html

I can't see an attorney really saying that. You would think he would be encouraging her to talk and try to get a plea deal. If it is possible for him to be produced. The lawyer on Levi Page's show last night was asked what he would advice EJ if she were his client and he said something like help all you can and make a deal, unless she killed him and then he would advise her to keep quiet.
I also can't understand why she talked so much to TPS but now she is saying she can't say anything. I am still waiting for some high profile attorney to volunteer his services to her.

You're right. I bet she's lying. The SA always tries to plea in return for info when it's a missing baby or child. They want to find them.

She just doesn't want to tell what she's done. Or she can't because it's not kidnapping.

I'm so upset I can't see straight.

 

[Marigold]

One of the reasons my hopes are fading after reading today's interview with Bob Johnson is that I believe that EJ is facing much more than 20 years. It is my understanding is that in Az, kidnapping of a minor under 15 is considered a dangerous crime against children and so all her sentences would have to be served consecutively. I could be wrong, but I believe that if she were convicted of everything she's charged with, she could be facing 40-60 years in prison. I am sure her attorney has told her that too.

So, if I am right, she knows she could be in prison for a long time.. but yet she's not willing to work out a deal with the prosecutors. That tells me that she probably doesn't have any good information to offer in exchange for the plea deal.


I would appreciate it if someone more level headed than I right now could look closely read the info carefully at this link and tell me if I am reading the laws wrong:
http://law.justia.com/arizona/codes/title13/00604-01.html

 

[time]

Please do not let your hope fade and here is why. If she really was so spiteful that she would kill Gabriel she never would have looked into adoption, second if she really cared so little about the Gabriel then she never would have hired a baby sitter she would have doped him up on benadryl or something and left him there. If she "hated" him so much to have killed him then she wouldn't have even bothered changing his clothes but she did you can tell by the pictures. Another thing, if she killed Gabriel do you really think she would have text Logan and confessed?
I think she is spiteful but I just dont think she is a killer. I am leaning more to the fact that she did give him up and I do feel he is endanger because whoever has him may think this is getting way out of control and may kill him out of fear of getting caught or EJ or TS whoever is involved giving them up.

Butterfly, I agree, those are all excellent points

I still do not think Gabriel is dead. I think he is with someone who has means and that it still could be that Elizabeth is convinced he is being taken care of because of how this was set up. And, I still think it's possible she doesn't know exact names and such to help find him - that might be why she told grandpa what she did.

 

[cyberborg]

I wonder if either grandpa, the press, or Elizabeth left out a couple of words there to make sense of this now that I reread it all. Sounds to me like helping find her baby won't help unless they give her something in return on the 20 years. I'll try to take that as also meaning, she really thinks and her lawyers think this is not going to be a murder case. On the other hand, I guess her lawyers may not be making as much an effort to make a deal if they know LE/FBI has some indication Gabriel is dead - I just don't think that makes sense either. I sense Elizabeth just did not put as much effort into getting grandpa to understand as we would like and was really just telling him she was not suppose to tell him anything so quit asking.

EJ's attorney may have phrased differently to bargain but this may have been EJ's spin to grandpa --- that finding Gabriel will not help her because [unspoken] he is not findable, so it is not worth her helping [convict herself]. A soft way to let grandpa know she isn't coming home anytime soon without admitting to anything.

 

[STEADFAST]

Reading back about where EJ's car was found, the UPI article states it was found at a Motel 6 (WTH?). She allegedly stayed in SA at two different Homewood Suites hotels, according to previous reports. What the rinky dink was the car doing at a Motel 6??? I'm not positive, but this isn't a typo is it? I kept wondering why if EJ stayed in two different Homewood Hotels, why the news stations kept showing a Motel 6 when they would often talk about her time on the run before she was found in Miami.

Anyone know if LE ever checked the dumpster near the Motel 6 where the car was found or if they ever checked the landfill where the hotel's trash gets dumped? Somehow I'm thinking this is a type somehow, but I really have no idea.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010...d-disappearance-recovered/UPI-92451262791824/

It's not a typo.

 

[time]

EJ's attorney may have phrased differently to bargain but this may have been EJ's spin to grandpa --- that finding Gabriel will not help her because [unspoken] he is not findable, so it is not worth her helping [convict herself]. A soft way to let grandpa know she isn't coming home anytime soon without admitting to anything.

Yeah, that could be. Well said.

 

[smart blonde]

The thing is... if Gabriel were still alive, Elizabeth would have a very powerful bargaining chip.

The Federal Bureau of Investigations is trying to find a child they believe to be in extreme danger. So are multiple state agencies.

Just think of the money, resources, man-hours and manpower being used in this particular investigation.

I believe that they want to recover Gabriel more than they even want to prosecute Elizabeth.

If Gabriel were still alive, Elizabeth, and her attorneys, could use him as a negotiating tool.

I have no doubt that the FBI has run it past her lawyers, something to the effect of, "Tell us how to find Gabriel, and we will drastically reduce the charges".

It would be a benefit both sides to recover Gabriel at this point- but it would only benefit Elizabeth's side if Gabriel is still alive.

In my opinion, Gabriel is not alive, therefore Elizabeth can not use him to minimize the trouble she is in.

She is now resigned to sit in jail on kidnapping charges for "twenty years", all the while hoping his body is never found- so that there will always be reasonable doubt.

 

[panthera]

To me it means that telling LE where the dumpster was will not help her case. Her best bet, if she killed Gabriel, would be to not help find him at all and hope his body can't be found. She's already going to go down for kidnapping; why hand them a murder conviction on a silver platter? If she gave him away, her best bet would be to help find him and prove he is alive and avoid a murder case altogether.

If she were to give up the names of the "adoptive" parents, and if Gabriel were to be found alive, she could negotiate the three charges she's currently facing and possibly get the kidnapping charge reduced. It seems from what's in the article that she doesn't have anything to bargain with. MOO

 

[cyberborg]

Okay...why can't she tell grandpa that Gabriel is ALIVE? He said most of the things he wanted to ask her - she isn't allowed to talk about. Excuse me, she's not allowed to talk about whether or not Gabriel is ALIVE?

I'm so sorry, but this doesn't sound hopeful.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[Marigold]

I'll bet those court appointed attorneys have never experienced a case like this. But just how much legal experience do they have between them? How to defend the magnitude of this case is mind boggling. Just consider the fact that LE is not only searching for a missing baby, but also for a murdered victim.

My heart aches.


Point is, the FBI and LE (Peoria, San Antonio, Miami), have not given out any information and ultimately are responsible for not helping us to help them.

Actually, the court appointed attorneys in AZ see far too many cases like this. Maricopa county abounds with killers and kidnappers. Iirc, the last three serial killers on trial had public defenders. Fwiw, wikipedia says that Maricopa county is the fourth largest in the country and even has more population than 24 states in the US.

 

[ella971]

The thing is... if Gabriel were still alive, Elizabeth would have a very powerful bargaining chip.

The Federal Bureau of Investigations is trying to find a child they believe to be in extreme danger. So are multiple state agencies.

Just think of the money, resources, man-hours and manpower being used in this particular investigation.

I believe that they want to recover Gabriel more than they even want to prosecute Elizabeth.

If Gabriel were still alive, Elizabeth, and her attorneys, could use him as a negotiating tool.

I have no doubt that the FBI has run it past her lawyers, something to the effect of, "Tell us how to find Gabriel, and we will drastically reduce the charges".

It would be a benefit both sides to recover Gabriel at this point- but it would only benefit Elizabeth's side if Gabriel is still alive.

In my opinion, Gabriel is not alive, therefore Elizabeth can not use him to minimize the trouble she is in.

She is now resigned to sit in jail on kidnapping charges for "twenty years", all the while hoping his body is never found- so that there will always be reasonable doubt.

You are reading my mind!

 

[time]

I hope everyone remembers this is grandpa paraphrasing what Elizabeth said. But also, why read so much into it? I know we are all desperate for answers, but this is a couple of news pieces with a little bit of info of what Elizabeth allegedly said to grandpa... I'm still not so sure about him, not that he's done anything wrong just that many have discussed his whole demeanor about all this has seemed off from the beginning.

 

[OneLove]

Anyone get screen shots of TPS's FB wall before she screamed "Satan" again?

 

[butterfly1978]

What really gets me about these cases is how our justice system cares more about the rights of the the one who is responsible than the victim. If what the grand dad said is true and EJ's lawyer did tell her not to talk, in my opinion THAT should be against the law, a babies life is at stake but I guess the attorney does not care the rights of the prisoner who caused all this is more important to him\her.

 

[Baznme]

If she were to give up the names of the "adoptive" parents, and if Gabriel were to be found alive, she could negotiate the three charges she's currently facing and possibly get the kidnapping charge reduced. It seems from what's in the article that she doesn't have anything to bargain with. MOO

EJ's interpretation of being in "good hands" could mean with Jesus. I'm just saying. Could be her way of justifying what she MAY have done here.

 

[time]

If she were to give up the names of the "adoptive" parents, and if Gabriel were to be found alive, she could negotiate the three charges she's currently facing and possibly get the kidnapping charge reduced. It seems from what's in the article that she doesn't have anything to bargain with. MOO

Just a hypothetical... what if Gabriel is alive and she doesn't know the names of the adoptive parents?

 

[SallyManda]

Butterfly, I agree, those are all excellent points

I still do not think Gabriel is dead. I think he is with someone who has means and that it still could be that Elizabeth is convinced he is being taken care of because of how this was set up. And, I still think it's possible she doesn't know exact names and such to help find him - that might be why she told grandpa what she did.

I think this as well..I really think she DOESNT know anything about the couple.

Also, I am not suggesting anything, but is it possible she feels that adoption is better for her son than being with the father for one way or another? If so, she may wish to rot in jail then help find him. I think this would also apply if she really is set on getting back at the father as well....

 

[Melanie]

idk what to think.

"she would rather spend 20 years in jail for the alleged kidnapping than to tell where he is at"

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/local/tempe/fears-of-baby-gabriel's-death-mount-1-18-2010

This doesn't sound too good. ANd the way the grandpa says it is almost like he thinks she is full of it.

Thank you, Mama. I was so prepared to think the Smith's had something to do with it. And that would be a GOOD thing, because Baby Gabriel would be alive. Anything to bring him home, that's what it's all about. But now to think that Elizabeth may have killed him, well that's more than I can handle. Why, why, why?

Mel


The Tempe Police Department says that when baby Gabriel first went missing, they had "strong indicators" that he was still alive and in good health. But they say now, those indicators are not nearly as strong.