AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #13

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<snipped>
Also, is that a Tylenol bottle a prescription bottle or just over the counter?
I'd think if she wanted to drug and/or silent him, she would have used something much stronger other than infant tylenol drops. JMO


Maybe it wasnt the Tylenol, maybe it was something she had for her own use.
 
I've been trying to put myself in Elizabeth's position, see it from her eyes, hoping it will shed some light.

So far, a lot of this is based on nothing but personal belief and the fact that I am very close to her age and I think I understand some of what she thought and felt prior to December. At that point, she becomes alien to me. None of this is said to offend or to excuse EJ's actions.

She's 23, and not an old 23, either. She seems very street smart (even the smart ones make mistakes), and also book smart, but not very people smart. It would be easy for her to find a predator and easy for one to convince her that they aren't a predator.

She has anger issues, obviously. That was a lot damage to the apartment, and it was not just blind rage. If she had just broken some dishes and then gotten herself together, that wouldn't bother me as much. (I have thrown a few dishes in my time.) She burned through blind rage, and kept going, methodically cutting up clothes, yet apparently not doing any damage to herself.

This rage was apparently, according to one article at least, was because he was late. That shows she is territorial over her life as she has chosen it. This is typical with foster kids, especially those that had no control over their own placements.

She has no real emotional depth. I am not branding her a sociopath yet, I believe the term is overused and misunderstood. She is just a shallow human being. She wanted to hurt Logan, that much is crystal clear. But the issue for me is whether she understands how much, and if she able to understand how much the death of a child is supposed to hurt. I don't believe she does. She never bonded to Gabriel, she does not feel like a mother, so she can't understand the feelings of a parent losing a child. She likely, even if Gabe is dead, doesn't see this as that painful, although it may hurt, just not as we feel it should. Her emotions don't process like that.

She doesn't care about herself in any meaningful kind of way. She has no long term self preservation instinct. She thinks about tomorrow, that's an attainable future. Thinking about next year, or 20 years from now, very rarely. That would be partially the foster system, partially whatever behavioral issues of mental illness she does have. (Whatever label will be put to it.)

So, if I were to look at Elizabeth just by herself, away from the other details of the case, I would see a gullible, shallow, defensive, controlling, angry, emotionally delayed, spiteful and intelligent young woman. And I would assume that Gabe were dead. However, based on all of the above without the other details of the case, I would have also assumed that she killed him before she left Tempe. The unknown is why she didn't. And that is the part of her personality I can't pin down, and that is the part that gives me hope he's still alive.

ETA: Not to interrupt the flow of conversation, but I had to get up several times while typing this and the board moved on without me. lol
 
I've been trying to put myself in Elizabeth's position, see it from her eyes, hoping it will shed some light.

So far, a lot of this is based on nothing but personal belief and the fact that I am very close to her age and I think I understand some of what she thought and felt prior to December. At that point, she becomes alien to me. None of this is said to offend or to excuse EJ's actions.

She's 23, and not an old 23, either. She seems very street smart (even the smart ones make mistakes), and also book smart, but not very people smart. It would be easy for her to find a predator and easy for one to convince her that they aren't a predator.

She has anger issues, obviously. That was a lot damage to the apartment, and it was not just blind rage. If she had just broken some dishes and then gotten herself together, that wouldn't bother me as much. (I have thrown a few dishes in my time.) She burned through blind rage, and kept going, methodically cutting up clothes, yet apparently not doing any damage to herself.

This rage was apparently, according to one article at least, was because he was late. That shows she is territorial over her life as she has chosen it. This is typical with foster kids, especially those that had no control over their own placements.

She has no real emotional depth. I am not branding her a sociopath yet, I believe the term is overused and misunderstood. She is just a shallow human being. She wanted to hurt Logan, that much is crystal clear. But the issue for me is whether she understands how much, and if she able to understand how much the death of a child is supposed to hurt. I don't believe she does. She never bonded to Gabriel, she does not feel like a mother, so she can't understand the feelings of a parent losing a child. She likely, even if Gabe is dead, doesn't see this as that painful, although it may hurt, just not as we feel it should. Her emotions don't process like that.

She doesn't care about herself in any meaningful kind of way. She has no long term self preservation instinct. She thinks about tomorrow, that's an attainable future. Thinking about next year, or 20 years from now, very rarely. That would be partially the foster system, partially whatever behavioral issues of mental illness she does have. (Whatever label will be put to it.)

So, if I were to look at Elizabeth just by herself, away from the other details of the case, I would see a gullible, shallow, defensive, controlling, angry, emotionally delayed, spiteful and intelligent young woman. And I would assume that Gabe were dead. However, based on all of the above without the other details of the case, I would have also assumed that she killed him before she left Tempe. The unknown is why she didn't. And that is the part of her personality I can't pin down, and that is the part that gives me hope he's still alive.
ETA: Not to interrupt the flow of conversation, but I had to get up several times while typing this and the board moved on without me. lol


BBM

Wow, this is so well written and thought out. And I agree with you five thousand percent, haha.

The only place I begin to veer off is why she didn't just kill him prior to leaving Tempe. I think the reason she didn't is that, at that time, TS was coaching her in how to "screw Logan" and take the baby away from him illegally. I think EJ thought that would really stick it to him. After she fled, and as things progressed, it became clear that their sneaky devilish little plans were not going to work (ie- can't change jurisdictions, etc).

While TS might have thought EJ just wanted a good home for Gabriel and might have truly loved Gabriel a great deal, I think she didn't see the clues that EJ just wanted revenge on Logan and was capable of killing him to get that revenge.

After hearing EJ whine about Logan not calling HER in those days after he left, I think while in San Antonio and he STILL wasn't calling her, AND she was being told the sneaky plans weren't going to work out, she said "the hell if I'm going back there with Gabriel" and sadly did the deed.

Then she left her mess in the hotel room behind, simply walked next door to the new hotel with her new identity, and started a whole new life.
 
http://www.kpho.com/news/22269570/detail.html

Father: Find Baby Gabriel

>Person of interest Tammi Smith, who planned to adopt Gabriel, has already lied about falsifying Johnson's paternity paperwork. According to her criminal record in Louisiana, Smith spent a night in jail for forging her second husband's signature on his checks.<

Finally, the media is reporting that Tammi has a criminal record. Forging is a serious offense, isn't it? Didn't someone on WS find an assault charge too?
 
BBM

Wow, this is so well written and thought out. And I agree with you five thousand percent, haha.

The only place I begin to veer off is why she didn't just kill him prior to leaving Tempe. I think the reason she didn't is that, at that time, TS was coaching her in how to "screw Logan" and take the baby away from him illegally. I think EJ thought that would really stick it to him. After she fled, and as things progressed, it became clear that their sneaky devilish little plans were not going to work (ie- can't change jurisdictions, etc).

While TS might have thought EJ just wanted a good home for Gabriel and might have truly loved Gabriel a great deal, I think she didn't see the clues that EJ just wanted revenge on Logan and was capable of killing him to get that revenge.

After hearing EJ whine about Logan not calling HER in those days after he left, I think while in San Antonio and he STILL wasn't calling her, AND she was being told the sneaky plans weren't going to work out, she said "the hell if I'm going back there with Gabriel" and sadly did the deed.

Then she left her mess in the hotel room behind, simply walked next door to the new hotel with her new identity, and started a whole new life.
If she was on her facebook in Miami Beach, then she didn't walk into a new life, she went back to the old. jmo
 
If she was on her facebook in Miami Beach, then she didn't walk into a new life, she went back to the old. jmo

Haha, yeah, but old habits die hard, especially when it comes to online venues, eh?
 
If she was on her facebook in Miami Beach, then she didn't walk into a new life, she went back to the old. jmo

Minus one thing...the responsibility of being a mother.
 
Haha, yeah, but old habits die hard, especially when it comes to online venues, eh?

Yes, but she could have done that the several days she was in Texas, too. How much was she on facebook before she fled to Texas?
 
!

also, I believe that Mlsmom pointed out that alot of these cameras do not even work(wasted tax dollars:waitasec:) BUT the one at Fredicksburg, might be one that is in balcones Heights, and therefore works.

Oh that one works. In fact I think that's the one that caught a murder on it about 1 1/2 to 2 years ago!

Melissa
 
http://www.kpho.com/news/22269570/detail.html

Father: Find Baby Gabriel

Person of interest Tammi Smith, who planned to adopt Gabriel, has already lied about falsifying Johnson's paternity paperwork. According to her criminal record in Louisiana, Smith spent a night in jail for forging her second husband's signature on his checks.

With the way she preaches on FB and other places, she thinks this is behavior is okay with her God? I would love to be a fly on the wall when she is sitting in confession spilling out her sins. IMO these are crimes that she just happened to get CAUGHT doing.
 
With the way she preaches on FB and other places, she thinks this is behavior is okay with her God? I would love to be a fly on the wall when she is sitting in confession spilling out her sins. IMO these are crimes that she just happened to get CAUGHT doing.

Oh, but TS swears on her FB 'fan' page that she has NO criminal record, except for one misdemeanor charge that she claims stemmed from her ex-husband's abuse of her. And she would never, ever lie. :innocent: Well...except for the tiny little fib about CC being Gabe's possible father....but she has been ever-so-truthful about everything else. Oh, why won't anyone believe this poor, saintly woman?

*Sarcasm fully intended. This woman can't possibly believe what is pouring out of her own mouth. (Can she...?)
 
With the way she preaches on FB and other places, she thinks this is behavior is okay with her God? I would love to be a fly on the wall when she is sitting in confession spilling out her sins. IMO these are crimes that she just happened to get CAUGHT doing.



According to her just fans part of her facebook... a poster (JH) there shared that her child is saying the assault charges were for hurting the child. Although I have also been told this, I couldn't share that info b/c of email. But someone else has.
 
More of the same.

1. Grandad going to visit J at the hospital.

2. Babysitter talks about that night she babysat

3. More talk about the posting who adopted baby baby gabriel over the holidays (thought that was debunked)

4. New photos from the 26th. Per pundit, the photos are disturbing because baby G is a holding a medicine cup.

5. Tammi's home has been searched

6. A number of things are happening, but LE does not know where Baby G is at. She killed him or handed him off to someone. It's critical for the public to pick up the phone (1-800-lost) to give us the peice we may need.

7. LE has not cleared the Smith's. They continue to speak, and LE believes they have knowledge that could assist in the investigation.

8. As each day passes, we lose hope in Baby G being alive -- but continue to hold up hope.

That's what I took away from the interview. Not word for word of course.

Mel

I'm trying to catch up and have a question on your #1 - who's in the hospital? or is this a typo? Thanks!
 
Oh, but TS swears on her FB 'fan' page that she has NO criminal record, except for one misdemeanor charge that she claims stemmed from her ex-husband's abuse of her. And she would never, ever lie. :innocent: Well...except for the tiny little fib about CC being Gabe's possible father....but she has been ever-so-truthful about everything else. Oh, why won't anyone believe this poor, saintly woman?

*Sarcasm fully intended. This woman can't possibly believe what is pouring out of her own mouth. (Can she...?)
She also told that lie to the media. The last interview of hers that I typed up, she is asked point blank on FOX Live and says "Neither of us has any criminal history whatsoever..." or something to that effect.
It's ridiculous what she's doing, but I think if she knows anything more about Gabe, then this will bring it out of her.
I am really beginning to think that she knew what she was doing in trying to get Gabe was illegal but it may have ended there for Tammi. Elizabeth may have been running from her as well.
(I'd run away from her, but that's just personal choice.)
 
According to her just fans part of her facebook... a poster (JH) there shared that her child is saying the assault charges were for hurting the child. Although I have also been told this, I couldn't share that info b/c of email. But someone else has.

Woah, missed that post. I just did see what Tammi posted about spreading lies on her site. Her litigation lawyer is going to draw up paperwork for her to post warnings about spreading lies. It is against the law to spread lies. So be careful what you "wright" on her site. Paraphrased of what she wrote.

I guess "wrighting" lies is bad according to Tammi, but nothing wrong with telling lies?
 
I've been trying to put myself in Elizabeth's position, see it from her eyes, hoping it will shed some light.

So far, a lot of this is based on nothing but personal belief and the fact that I am very close to her age and I think I understand some of what she thought and felt prior to December. At that point, she becomes alien to me. None of this is said to offend or to excuse EJ's actions.

She's 23, and not an old 23, either. She seems very street smart (even the smart ones make mistakes), and also book smart, but not very people smart. It would be easy for her to find a predator and easy for one to convince her that they aren't a predator.

She has anger issues, obviously. That was a lot damage to the apartment, and it was not just blind rage. If she had just broken some dishes and then gotten herself together, that wouldn't bother me as much. (I have thrown a few dishes in my time.) She burned through blind rage, and kept going, methodically cutting up clothes, yet apparently not doing any damage to herself.

This rage was apparently, according to one article at least, was because he was late. That shows she is territorial over her life as she has chosen it. This is typical with foster kids, especially those that had no control over their own placements.

She has no real emotional depth. I am not branding her a sociopath yet, I believe the term is overused and misunderstood. She is just a shallow human being. She wanted to hurt Logan, that much is crystal clear. But the issue for me is whether she understands how much, and if she able to understand how much the death of a child is supposed to hurt. I don't believe she does. She never bonded to Gabriel, she does not feel like a mother, so she can't understand the feelings of a parent losing a child. She likely, even if Gabe is dead, doesn't see this as that painful, although it may hurt, just not as we feel it should. Her emotions don't process like that.

She doesn't care about herself in any meaningful kind of way. She has no long term self preservation instinct. She thinks about tomorrow, that's an attainable future. Thinking about next year, or 20 years from now, very rarely. That would be partially the foster system, partially whatever behavioral issues of mental illness she does have. (Whatever label will be put to it.)

So, if I were to look at Elizabeth just by herself, away from the other details of the case, I would see a gullible, shallow, defensive, controlling, angry, emotionally delayed, spiteful and intelligent young woman. And I would assume that Gabe were dead. However, based on all of the above without the other details of the case, I would have also assumed that she killed him before she left Tempe. The unknown is why she didn't. And that is the part of her personality I can't pin down, and that is the part that gives me hope he's still alive.

ETA: Not to interrupt the flow of conversation, but I had to get up several times while typing this and the board moved on without me. lol



GREAT POST!!!! Do you think that she may have had fear of getting caught for murder? It seems she didn't think she would be facing 20 yrs for kidnapping... TIA
 
Is this litigation attorney a friend, or a real attorney?
I hope a real one, so they can tell her that slander and libel only apply to untrue comments.
 
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