JAG Armchair Psych Profile Family Dynamics

[Mick]

There's the genetic aspect of bipolar, as well as being set off by a particularly stressful event.

JAG's mom, if she was involved in hypersexual things could be the genetic link. I believe most of us have noticed several very stressful events in JAG's life. Never do such things justify his actions, but may open doors to understanding his mental foundation.

 

[fabvab]

I have the same question as you HC regarding the BP diagnosis. To be honest, the few things we have heard describing some of his behavior is consistent with bipolar behavior, imo. But of course making a diagnosis without actually talking to him and reviewing his entire history would certainly be difficult to impossible. So I am only saying that based on the bits of info we have, it is still a distinct possibility for me. Of course there are plenty of disorders that can be comorbid to bipolar I. (including ADHD of course)

If Tegretol is on the list of his medications then he was probably being treated for a Mood Disorder. I've seen it used a lot for children with Mood Disorders. Lithium and some of the high powered drugs are usually tried at least resort.

Some doctors are hesitant to label children/youth as Bipolar. They usually call it a Mood Disorder, and I have seen them use Tegretol to treat it. Bipolar in youth commonly presents itself as other disorders. ADHD...depression.
"The Bipolar Child" is a very informative book.

 

[fabvab]

There's the genetic aspect of bipolar, as well as being set off by a particularly stressful event.

JAG's mom, if she was involved in hypersexual things could be the genetic link. I believe most of us have noticed several very stressful events in JAG's life. Never do such things justify his actions, but may open doors to understanding his mental foundation.

I agree about the Mom. Plus she has several marriages coupled with the hypersexual. An unstable parent is not good for any child. I guarantee if he had been to the doctor in the last few years, then he'd probably have the diagnosis of Intermittent Explosive Disorder.
Some of these youth who have been on a lot of different meds, have been hospitalized for emotional issues...then they usually have a string of labels which can change with the passage of time as more tests, documentation, etc. come into play. I guarantee he has ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) somewhere in his past...along with NOS behind some labels (Not Otherwise Specified).

 

[eyes4crime]

POSTED BY HERDING CATS POST #131
One thing which struck me is that there aren't any noted meds for bi-polar. I was looking for meds like lithium, risperdal, depakene/depakote, lamictil, zyprexa, abilify...but those weren't mentioned. There is a note which indicates that JAG took 18 meds, so obviously the list in the probation report is not complete. But I still would've thought I'd've seen at least one bi-polar med if his bi-polar diagnosis was a true one.
BBM--------------------------------------------------------

I would venture to say that if he indeed was taking 18 medications, there were several different doctors involved and he may have had many a diagnosis. I think 18 medications is outrageous and meds were given to treat medication side effects, adverse reactions, etc. I haven't seen a list of his medications but I can tell you that the side effects would be deplorable. Where would I find a list of his 18 meds? TIA MOO

ETA: I just read the report. The statement is that he took 18 meds at various times. No wonder nothing worked - there is no treatment for sociopathy/pedophilia. Dr. Carroll (Forensic Psychiatrist) was right on target saying treatment would not help and to recommend the full sentence. Unfortunately, the parole officer and judge won out. MOO

ETA 2: JAG was given the 18 different meds as a child - he was on Mellaril at one point. JAG blaming the girl's mother for the beating is a conclusion that may indicate some kind of mild thought disorder that emerges under stress. I think he is a psychopath/pedophile - no medication treats that! He may have had ADHD but these kids are usually loving and intelligent - ADHD does not lead to murder. Ritalin helps the child filter the surroundings so tending to what's important can be achieved. all just my opinion

 

[Curious Me]

Enjoying all your posts.

I am overwhelmed by the reports because nothing so far seems a definite diagnosis, just haunting perceptions of him that reveal he had extreme symptoms starting at an early age, and by the time he was 21 he was exhibiting a lack of remorse to a frightening degree, and a dead end refusal to admit to the crime and the reality of himself committing the crime. Is there any medicine you can take to feel the feelings you don't have like other people?

 

[eyes4crime]

Enjoying all your posts.

I am overwhelmed by the reports because nothing so far seems a definite diagnosis, just haunting perceptions of him that reveal he had extreme symptoms starting at an early age, and by the time he was 21 he was exhibiting a lack of remorse to a frightening degree, and a dead end refusal to admit to the crime and the reality of himself committing the crime. Is there any medicine you can take to feel the feelings you don't have like other people?

Oh sure!!! I''m trying to whip together some 'empathy' shots and some 'compassion' pills to take with a little plant therapy. Just a little something reminding monsters like JAG that a live human being is at stake and not an object. :crazy:

 

[Curious Me]

Oh sure!!! I''m trying to whip together some 'empathy' shots and some 'compassion' pills to take with a little plant therapy. Just a little something reminding monsters like JAG that a live human being is at stake and not an object. :crazy:

BBM

eyes4crime, I hope you're almost done making those "feeling" pills!

 

[concentric]

Just posted this article in Probation Report thread:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/10/details-of-suspects-past-emerge/

Gardner’s mother is a registered nurse, according to state records. She is also the legislative committee chairwoman of the California Chapter of the American Psychiatric Nurses Association, according to its newsletters. In April, she protested state mental health care funding cuts during a walk in San Diego to raise money for the National Alliance on Mental Illness.

She has not responded to interview requests since her son’s arrest. Gardner’s father died at the age of 64 in 2008.

 

[Curious Me]

It really bothers me when I think that, if proven, that Gardner did actually commit the Amber Dubois crime he could have gotten away with that. He would have gotten away with it. Think about that.

Gardner spent over a year watching Amber's family and friends, and actually the whole large community of SD county tortured that we couldn't find Amber. Did he feel all powerful, and was snickering at us? Nobody seemed on to him then. He could've lived amoung us for many future years. Did he want to get caught subconsciously to push his luck with the Dec attack and deciding to go after Chelsea? It shows how cold he must be inside to have watched Amber's parents and even us suffer and then do it again. No feelings at all it seems.

 

[Curious Me]

I've never seen ADHD qualify any student for a label of SED (Severely Emotionally Disturbed) in the school setting. Now, I've seen SED students who also have a diagnosis of ADHD. Usually the SED students have several labels/diagnosis going on. Intermittent Explosive Disorder, Mood Disorder, Reactive Attachment Disorder, OCD, etc. and many have a history of abuse/neglect. A label of SED is not easily come by in the school system. (At least not in the places I've worked.)

Just remembered this boy in my son's class in elementary school who must've been labeled SED when he had whipped it out and peed on the teacher. He was troubled, and constantly nasty to deal with for years. I have not heard these kinds of stories about Gardner being as frustrating and nasty as this boy I'm thinking about. Wonder whatever happened to him? Lived with his Dad who was very into watching *advertiser censored*. Pray he's not on the news next.

 

[JBean]

Just posted this article in Probation Report thread:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/10/details-of-suspects-past-emerge/

Gardner’s mother is a registered nurse, according to state records. She is also the legislative committee chairwoman of the California Chapter of the American Psychiatric Nurses Association, according to its newsletters. In April, she protested state mental health care funding cuts during a walk in San Diego to raise money for the National Alliance on Mental Illness.

She has not responded to interview requests since her son’s arrest. Gardner’s father died at the age of 64 in 2008.

It seems the cobbler's children always need new shoes.

 

[Mick]

This doesn't really belong here, but a contact is claiming:

The John and Ken Show reports that two of their listeners have informed them that John Gardner took authorities to Amber Dubois' grave.

So far it's hearsay, but interesting. I don't see other Amber threads more appropriate open.

 

[Curious Me]

“Some have more of a sociopathic personality. For those, they don’t feel guilt. They’re not going to feel guilt and they need to merely be controlled by society, the law, the legal system.” http://www.kpbs.org/news/2010/mar/10/legal-experts-say-1-strike-law-sex-offenders-alrea/

 

[Curious Me]

This doesn't really belong here, but a contact is claiming:



So far it's hearsay, but interesting. I don't see other Amber threads more appropriate open.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=388

 

[Ghostwheel]

It seems the cobbler's children always need new shoes.

Often, it's why the cobbler becomes a cobbler. Or because the cobbler needs some shoes of their own.

 

[Curious Me]

Good article, IMO.

Friend describes Gardner and that he did tell her he was bipolar.

There was a male family member that molested him.



http://www.crestlinecourier-news.com/articles/2010/03/11/news/news1.txt

 

[Herding Cats]

Good article, IMO.

Friend describes Gardner and that he did tell her he was bipolar.

There was a male family member that molested him.



http://www.crestlinecourier-news.com/articles/2010/03/11/news/news1.txt

Pretty clear indications of poor impulse control ("impulsivity") in those stories. Streaking the 7-11, stealing, anger issues.

Also, note how his story changed about the sexual assault...he indicates that intercourse happened (albeit with the victim's "boyfriend"), but he was not charged with that, nor does the original claim (reported in the probation report) state that it happened. And, note how the story changed again with telling to the police and family - "the mother beat her".

And it confirms my belief that he'd been hospitalized as a teen...which seems to have led to his SED classification.

Interesting, interesting, interesting. I wish I knew what he had been hospitalized for.

The "impulsivity" in his life leads me to believe even more strongly that he committed his crimes in moments of opportunity, with no more premeditation than "I think I'll see who I can find this morning" type of thing, rather than selecting a victim, stalking her, and then trying to/actually kidnapping/sexual assaulting/killing.

That doesn't take premeditation off the table, and murder one will still be charged...but it's not like some of the cases we see where someone is selected, stalked, and then killed. It's more impulsive than that, imho...

Best-
Herding Cats.

 

[Mick]

Good article, IMO.

Friend describes Gardner and that he did tell her he was bipolar.

There was a male family member that molested him.

http://www.crestlinecourier-news.com/articles/2010/03/11/news/news1.txt

If my memory serves me right, most child molesters have themselves been
molested. It's difficult for the psyche of a molested child to put the event into the context of their lives so far, so they may spend the rest of their lives passing on the confusion that was caused by the original incident.

Whatever molestations happened to Mr. Gardener appear to have had a very deep and harmful effect on his emotional, psychological, and sexual development - not to excuse his actions whatsoever, but to explain the mechanism of what may have occurred in his mind.

 

[justsomeinfo]

Good article, IMO.

Friend describes Gardner and that he did tell her he was bipolar.

There was a male family member that molested him.



http://www.crestlinecourier-news.com/articles/2010/03/11/news/news1.txt

I don't remember the particular person they're quoting in this article, but when I get the chance I'll look her up in the yearbook. I think, unlike the people who've spoken before that have claimed they knew him, this person actually did. I vaguely remember the 7-11 streaking incident being talked about, so I would say this one is actually pretty trustworthy.

 

[Curious Me]

Pretty clear indications of poor impulse control ("impulsivity") in those stories. Streaking the 7-11, stealing, anger issues.

Also, note how his story changed about the sexual assault...he indicates that intercourse happened (albeit with the victim's "boyfriend"), but he was not charged with that, nor does the original claim (reported in the probation report) state that it happened. And, note how the story changed again with telling to the police and family - "the mother beat her".

And it confirms my belief that he'd been hospitalized as a teen...which seems to have led to his SED classification.

Interesting, interesting, interesting. I wish I knew what he had been hospitalized for.

The "impulsivity" in his life leads me to believe even more strongly that he committed his crimes in moments of opportunity, with no more premeditation than "I think I'll see who I can find this morning" type of thing, rather than selecting a victim, stalking her, and then trying to/actually kidnapping/sexual assaulting/killing.

That doesn't take premeditation off the table, and murder one will still be charged...but it's not like some of the cases we see where someone is selected, stalked, and then killed. It's more impulsive than that, imho...

Best-
Herding Cats.

Gardner says in the friend's recollection of him: "He proudly claimed, like Houdini, that he could work his way out of a straitjacket," she said. "He was quite proud of himself for that."

And he thinks he is superior. He must think he outsmarted everybody the whole year Amber was missing, then getting away with all the parole violations, etc., etc., Diabolical to nab his victims by driving to the high school or waiting on the trails...is that a impulse control problem?

Are you saying the defense might say - Impulses that couldn't be controlled?