WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #2

[LogicalMinds]

It's obviously not compared to the other items in the picture.

I'd also like to say there is a difference between someone who drinks (even at inappropriate times) and an alcoholic, and that you don't have to be an alcoholic to get a DUI. When did she complete her schooling? I've read interviews from others that she did very well in college and had a high GPA. Also, other comments about her don't mesh with being a full-blown alcoholic. Perhaps she was, but I'd like to remind people that the one calling her an alcoholic is the same person who diagnosed himself using the Google.

Regardless, drinking while driving with her child (or even if she did so after they got stuck) was an incredibly stupid and irresponsible thing to do.

Does anyone know if autopsy can determine if she was drinking / drunk?

Alcoholism is basically a "self diagnosed" disease regarding treatment....however it is NOT hard to diagnose..IF drinking is causing problems...there it is

and this is surely beyond a "problem"....

the one calling her an alcoholic is likely correct..but probably has problems of his own IMHO, most people who voluntarily stick with an active alcoholic do, often people who grew up with alcoholics

yes, probably the autopsy will determine it for sure

I do see a LOT of (well meaning) misinformation spread here...frankly most people who get DUI's have a real problem with booze....

there is a saying "Park Bench to Park Avenue"....your idea that she didn't look like a "full blown alcoholic" would be a good joke in a 12 step room...they can look like anyone....like Sen Ted Kennedy's wife Joan....or a pill poppin first lady like Betty Ford.....and so on

When sober an alcholic can do all sorts of things...operate on your brain even...you just don't want to be the paitent the day they have a "slip"

It is truly misleading to even say things like "she did well in college"...etc

Alcoholism is a 3 fold disease....physical, mental , spiritual

as far as the physical goes, most of them do react differently to booze than other people..they have more of a craving, they don't have an "off" switch, once they get started they cant or won't stop,

they have various mental problems along with it..and people with varioius conditions like depression will "self medicate" with alcohol....and just the amount of messes and problems they cause makes gives them more mental problems

Spiritual...??? debatable but the messes, the problems they cause can leave them spiritually bankrupt, they feel very hopeless many times

The way they look, the way they act when sober has NOTHING to do with what they might do when they pick up the first drink...women in particular can "fake it" and can go to great lengths to cover their drinking, that may be why this poor woman went on this trip, maybe at some point the pressure got to her and she drove around in order to have an excuse to drink or a place to drink

what could have been done?? well ....not very much really. Years ago you could get them in a rehab but not now. Hard to baker act them even in Florida unless they have a diagnosed mental illness like bipolar etc

Maybe the fiancee wanted to marry her quickly so as to adopt her son???
without that, when sober she had every right to drive off with him...and anyone who says otherwise is just not cognizant of how things really work

There is a fairyland world here where strangers should "know" that a person is about to do something, where cops will answer any 911 call promptly and "do something", where family members are somehow able to make grown adults do things, where strangers should restrain an adult who looks like they might drink or might be acting funny....it just does NOT work that way in real life

 

[BOZGAL]

This news just makes me so sad. I was praying for a different outcome especially for the precious boy.

RIP Little Man

 

[Mendara]

The way they look, the way they act when sober has NOTHING to do with what they might do when they pick up the first drink...women in particular can "fake it" and can go to great lengths to cover their drinking, that may be why this poor woman went on this trip, maybe at some point the pressure got to her and she drove around in order to have an excuse to drink or a place to drink

There is a fairyland world here where strangers should "know" that a person is about to do something, where cops will answer any 911 call promptly and "do something", where family members are somehow able to make grown adults do things, where strangers should restrain an adult who looks like they might drink or might be acting funny....it just does NOT work that way in real life

I have to disagree with you here as I had an alcoholic father and an alcoholic aunt. To the first bolded point above - at one point Shantina was sober and she made a decision to take that drink even though she was driving and had her son with her. That is HER fault and the selfishness of this disease. She cared more for the drink that their safety - the first terrible thing people do is make excuses for alcoholics including family members.

If she recently relapsed with alcohol she should have never been driving a long distance alone with her child or taking such a trip. This was an opportunity for a family member to have the courage to step up and tell her NO.

Second bolded point above this MUST be the real world - we should not accept anything less. My father and aunt should have been restrained and not allowed access to us kids when they were drunk - family members SHOULD make decisions for drunks and keep children safe.

I recall many times my aunt being seperated from her car by strangers, her keys taken, my cousin taken and held until other family members could get there. Minding our own business doesn't work in cases like these. Alcoholics can try to talk you out of things and into things - they are dangerous to themselves and those around them, especially children.

She should have been stopped along the way and someone called and maybe that baby would be alive.

IMHO - however to blame anyone other than his parents for failing him is wrong. PARENTS are responsible for the safety of their children - she failed him when she took that drink knwoing it was a dangerous road to take and so did his dad for not being involved in his life enough to know he was in danger.

 

[Amster]

All I can say about the alcoholism topic is I lived through it with a parent. The worry, stress, embarrassment of it for a child is everlasting. You are hyper vigilant to the signs. You dread it, when coming home from school, the drinking buddys' car is in the driveway. You avoid having friends over. You lay awake at night, praying they make it home safe without killing themselves or someone else. It affects your whole life. Not to discount all the explanations of causes and reasons alcoholics act they way they do....as an adult, I understand all of that. But, a child doesn't. You see the person that you rely on out of control. It's a scary place to be...

 

[Penelope]

Society is very different today than even when I was a child (45-50 years ago). People do not necessarily live in close proximity to other family members, and we have all been programmed to put individual rights above all.

I imagine that years ago extended families would have dealt with such a situation as Mendara describes, where family members would act to protect nieces, nephews and grandchildren. Nowadays, with the fracturing of the family unit, it is less likely that people will take action in such situations.

 

[Prof]

We have 2 days of no rain, fairly clear skies and warmer temps in the forecast up in this area -- It is also the start of Spring Break and many will be heading to the beach areas this weekend

 

[LogicalMinds]

I am not downplaying her part in this...she was sober and she chose to pick up...but the disease is cunning, baffling and powerful

however....hindsight is great..who should have stopped her and how??

the "system" no longer even has any safeguards....NO rehabs...no dry out option...no way to commit someone to a mental hospital just for being drunk and apparently in most states you can't even get them help at all

moms walk up and buy bottles of wine or liquor or case of beer everyday with kids in tow...no law against it

no law against crying

who would dare to stop her?? I have dealt with these kinds of things, and I know people who have dealt with them...there is no way to "stop" them...I have posted bout my former neighbor and their violent, alcoholic bi polar son..and the way they could not get help

 

[justme96]

http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=108&sid=298515

RS interview with Ron and Don.

Wow again he is leaving things out again. He said she hasn't had a drink in two years until she found out about his health issues. On his facebook in Feb they took a trip not only was she drinking beer but they went wine tasting. He has pictures from a winery and a wine tasting bottles from that trip. I don't get it at all. If she really had a drinking problem wouldn't her loved ones avoid alchohol along with them?

 

[DaneBramage]

I am not downplaying her part in this...she was sober and she chose to pick up...but the disease is cunning, baffling and powerful

however....hindsight is great..who should have stopped her and how??

the "system" no longer even has any safeguards....NO rehabs...no dry out option...no way to commit someone to a mental hospital just for being drunk and apparently in most states you can't even get them help at all

moms walk up and buy bottles of wine or liquor or case of beer everyday with kids in tow...no law against it

no law against crying

who would dare to stop her?? I have dealt with these kinds of things, and I know people who have dealt with them...there is no way to "stop" them...I have posted bout my former neighbor and their violent, alcoholic bi polar son..and the way they could not get help

That is the insanity that we in AA talk of in Step Two. It is the sober alcoholic that takes that first drink setting the destructive machine in motion. Once the alcohol enters the system, the physiological response takes over and the alcoholic will not stop drinking until they run out of alcohol or something (or someone) intervenes.

It's like the old Chinese saying:

The man takes a drink
The drink takes a drink
The drink takes the man​

 

[BeanE]

There is a fairyland world here where strangers should "know" that a person is about to do something, where cops will answer any 911 call promptly and "do something", where family members are somehow able to make grown adults do things, where strangers should restrain an adult who looks like they might drink or might be acting funny....it just does NOT work that way in real life

Very well said, Logical. Thanks for posting that. Warning: I'm likely to plagiarize it

 

[LotsaLatte]

Sorry if this has already been posted - I didn't see it here.
Is this bad reporting or something I just never read before and missed??
quoted from KOIN.com - link below:

"Smiley was then traced to a grocery store in Boston Harbor before she visited a friend nearby."

http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/stat...nd-is-missing-boy/lsOYwCNxmE-AWgKbPDAikA.cspx

My edit:
I just read a total of 3 stories on this same "news" site and all 3 had mistakes. So, this very well could be bad reporting. Gheeez.

 

[WhoDidIt?]

Just on Fox news. Autopsy to be released within the hour. Any locals here? Hows the weather, are they still searching for mom?

I'm local...it's nice and sunny today. Supposed to be 60-65 degrees and sunny today and tomorrow. Hope they find mom soon and piece this all together. Im just so sad for Azriel, he went through a lot in his short little life! I hope he didn't suffer.

 

[justme96]

For those not famliar with PNW:

1. If she was lost on a backroad she wouldn't have been able to turn around a van. It is possible she was looking for a clearing to turn around. There are two videos of her that shows she was having trouble with turning the van. I have a small car and on the backroads in this area would have to look for a place to turn around.

2. The tides here are swift at some places yet not others. it wouldn't be uncommon for articles to end up one place and Az to show up at another.

3. Waterfront property are mixed neighbor hoods. Some multi-million dollar houses are right next door to double wide trailers. Bill Gates has a summer home in Mason County.

4. Although the houses may be lit there aren't street lights in these areas. The moon was not bright that night.

5. Living in the woods you hear noises all the time. The wind blows a branch onto a shed and it sounds like a knock on a door. Animals can also make noises I have a deer problem at my house they come up to my flower boxes to eat and bump up against the house all the time. Yes they should have looked further into the knocking at 1 am but if it were me I would have done the same thing turned on the lights and moved on.

 

[tlcya]

Anyone have any knowledge about her relationsip with stepfather. Was it normal or unusual for her to be heading over there with Azriel? I guess I am trying to figure out like everyone else, why the drinking. Her out roaming around pretending to be lost, drunk, with son in the car just feels wrong to me. I wonder if the wine was purchased and the drinking began because she was stressed about the visit she was about to embark on. You know, like alcoholics will often seek to bolster their courage before tackling something distasteful or stressful.

Do we know, was she expected at stepfather's? Was the relationship between them strained? If so how? Sorry if some of this has been covered here but I just checked out this case, I have been so preoccupied with others.

 

[Jani]

That is the insanity that we in AA talk of in Step Two. It is the sober alcoholic that takes that first drink setting the destructive machine in motion. Once the alcohol enters the system, the physiological response takes over and the alcoholic will not stop drinking until they run out of alcohol or something (or someone) intervenes.

It's like the old Chinese saying:

The man takes a drink
The drink takes a drink
The drink takes the man​

I wonder what stopped Shantina's drinking that night? The wine bottle they found was half full.

 

[Mendara]

I wonder what stopped Shantina's drinking that night? The wine bottle they found was half full.

My heart breaks thinking of her son begging her to stop, maybe she fell asleep - my dad used to pass out - my uncle at times would pass out in the elevator of our building. I knew a lot of alcoholics as a kid and the anger it caused in me was disturbing.

 

[ghettovet]

I am saddened by the death of this little boy. This whole thing just does not seem right to me. What are the odds that both drowned accidentally? Must be pretty long odds right? Something here stinks. I believe either the mom is alive and murdered her son(less likely). But it could possibly be a murder suicide. Or the fiance is somehow responsible for this . This is the most likely scenario in my opinion although i am struggling with the fact that most murders involving the bfriend rarely result in the death of a child as well as a parent. I will be curious to hear the COD to this young boy. Any signs of struggle?

 

[Lipin One]

Sorry if this has already been posted - I didn't see it here.
Is this bad reporting or something I just never read before and missed??
quoted from KOIN.com - link below:

"Smiley was then traced to a grocery store in Boston Harbor before she visited a friend nearby."

http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/stat...nd-is-missing-boy/lsOYwCNxmE-AWgKbPDAikA.cspx

It's bad reporting.

The friend must be the Williams, unless they are the persons whose address she was looking for while roaming around town... if she were looking for someone, which doesn't seem to be the case.

I'm confused.

 

[slowbutsteady]

I wonder what stopped Shantina's drinking that night? The wine bottle they found was half full.

I've been around alcoholics and what I've observed is they get drunk really fast...i.e. they used to be able to have a few drinks before feeling it, but now it only takes one.

THEORY - IMO she gave her little boy something to put him to sleep or maybe even kill him, then she took something and she passed out. The tide came in and that was it. My prayers go out to the family.:angel:

 

[tlcya]

I hope mom didn't pass out after drinking half of the wine and ending up stuck on the beach area. If she did pass out that would explain why the jug of wine was only half finished. Can you imagine, waking up cold, wet, your son nowhere to be found, hung over, knowing you are in a heap of trouble? What if she did pass out and when she came to found her son missing or drowned in the nearby water. What would she do in that circumstance I wonder? Would she sound the alarm or slink off into hiding somewhere, mortified and ashamed, responsible for the death of her beloved son?

Just me ruminating over possibles here. Just throwing out possibilites. Its what I do ya know.