South Hadley,MA Phoebe Prince 15 kills self over bullying #3

[concentric]

Phoebe had experienced ongoing abuse and had even gone so far as to describe it unbearable. But she did bear it. Something had to happen, something extraordinary, to cause her to go home and kill herself without any warning to anyone.

Are you thinking she was pregnant?

 

[Paladine]

Are you thinking she was pregnant?

Well, that would be easy to know. The autopsy should show that.

 

[Paladine]

This one is priceless...

One of the essays is all about cutting, also known as self-mutilation. It’s a response to a book by Steven Levenkron. But, in it Phoebe writes “…it’s not about suicide in most cases. It’s about trying to transfer the pain from emotional to physical pain which is a lot easier to deal with…” Phoebe never says she’s cut herself. But, she did say “it helped me comprehend what people close to me have gone through.”

A Local Moms opinion...I've never quoted a 'local mom' before....lol... But I like what she says...

We asked a local mom to read the essay and tell us what she thinks about it. She said "I would think this would be a red flag for a teacher."

In the other essay, Phoebe complains about Facebook and Twitter and asks the question “where have today’s values gone?” According to District Attorney Elizabeth Schiebel, Facebook was used to torment Phoebe.

We asked Tom Kokonowski, a Northampton attorney, if he thinks these essays could be used to help or hurt the accused bullies in court. He said "These, by themselves, to me are simply a 15-year-old expressing some sort of pain." But, he said they could be a springboard for further investigation. If coupled with stronger evidence, he said they could be useful for the defense."

How could this be used by the defense? Oh! She cuts so they are ALLOWED to stalk her? She cuts so they CAN have sex with a minor? She cuts so they can scream obscenities at her in class? Boy...people who cut better lock themselves away...

Does anyone else see how stupid that sounds? It's no defense, imo.

And...a LAUGH...SORT OF, if it wasn't so stunning...GUSSIE at his finest!! Who writes his stuff? Letterman?

We also brought these essays to South Hadley’s superintendent Gus Sayer. He said he didn’t know anything about them. When we asked him whether this should have been a red flag for Phoebe's teacher, he said "I don't know. I don't even know who her teachers are."

http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/a-closer-look-at-phoebe-prince's-essays

 

[shefner]

Are you thinking she was pregnant?

No....I'm thinking she might have been surprised by a visitor. Why did she quit texting with her friend? Did the last text allude to suicide? Wouldn't she be thinking, "What time will my sister be home? What will this do to my dad?" Even as upset as she was at that time, I think these are thoughts she would consider.
Of course, I'm sure alibis have been investigated and confirmed.

 

[jjenny]

No....I'm thinking she might have been surprised by a visitor. Why did she quit texting with her friend? Did the last text allude to suicide? Wouldn't she be thinking, "What time will my sister be home? What will this do to my dad?" Even as upset as she was at that time, I think these are thoughts she would consider.
Of course, I'm sure alibis have been investigated and confirmed.

Alibis for what? As far as I can tell, never, at any time, this was considered anything other than suicide.
No one is going to check alibis in case of a suicide.

 

[Lou Cyper]

A Local Moms opinion...I've never quoted a 'local mom' before....lol... But I like what she says...

Who needs psychologists when we have people in the street. Even more qualified if they've given birth. Mothers would be perfect to ask. :crazy:

The thing is, even if she was someone who was emotionally unstable, then it makes their crime more heinous IMO. They've targeted someone obviously vulnerable which would make it even more cowardly.

How more outraged are people when a mugging occurs and the victim is elderly or disabled?

 

[TrashersFan]

The court documents (I am looking at the one regarding Sharon Velasquez) state that the last outgoing text message on Phoebe's phone was 2:48pm. The call to 911 was 4:55pm.

That leaves 2 hours and 7 min during which she constructed her plan and killed herself.

In the comments of one of the MassLive articles, at least one person states that there had been specific comments to Phoebe from these bullies to "go hang yourself".

I think that Phoebe felt as if the only way to bring an end to the torment was to finally give them what they said that the wanted. If she had killed herself by any way other than hanging, I would be astounded in fact.

 

[shefner]

Alibis for what? As far as I can tell, never, at any time, this was considered anything other than suicide.
No one is going to check alibis in case of a suicide.

Surely at some points the youths who were arrested were questioned about their activities on the day on Phoebe's suicide. "Where did you go after school? Did you see Phoebe again that day? Did you call or text her? Did you hit her with an empty can? Who else was in the car with you? Exactly what did you say to her? Where did you go after you last saw her?"
Just because no authority has mentioned publicly anything other than suicide does it mean that other options have not been considered. If they have not, then I would be disappointed.

 

[TrashersFan]

If it was anything besides a suicide then there would have to be fingerprints on the noose (scarf) that she used. There is no mention of any forced entry into the house either. These kids are clearly not the sharpest tacks in the drawer, so it does not fit for them to have had an elaborate murder plot.

The bullies were getting way too much entertainment out of their daily abuse of Phoebe. They probably looked forward to getting some more laughs out of shouting "*advertiser censored*" (how sophisticated and oooh how clever) at her.

I am betting that they were not brave enough to kill her with their bare hands, merely sadistic enough to torment and browbeat her multiple times each day until she took her own life.

 

[shefner]

The court documents (I am looking at the one regarding Sharon Velasquez) state that the last outgoing text message on Phoebe's phone was 2:48pm. The call to 911 was 4:55pm.

That leaves 2 hours and 7 min during which she constructed her plan and killed herself.

In the comments of one of the MassLive articles, at least one person states that there had been specific comments to Phoebe from these bullies to "go hang yourself".

I think that Phoebe felt as if the only way to bring an end to the torment was to finally give them what they said that the wanted. If she had killed herself by any way other than hanging, I would be astounded in fact.

Two hours and 7 minutes is a very long time for a person who is distraught to carry out her plan. I do not recall a reference to her ever saying, "Maybe I should just hang myself and give them what they want." Perhaps she did and I've forgotten. Most times, people who are suicidal issue some type of "cry for help," or warning. In this case, I think we see a girl who had plans for the future....she wanted to wear the pretty dress and red shoes to the dance, she had a date to that same dance, she had a visit to her father coming up and she was looking forward to it, she even had her phone on the charger when she died.
My own father was a minister and we moved quite a bit. I attended 5 high schools in 5 different towns. I can relate to the frustration of trying to adjust to new places and people.

 

[TrashersFan]

Two hours and 7 minutes is a very long time for a person who is distraught to carry out her plan. I do not recall a reference to her ever saying, "Maybe I should just hang myself and give them what they want." Perhaps she did and I've forgotten.

Here is the comment from someone who sounds as if he/she knew her:
http://connect.masslive.com/user/MBee20/index.html

"Phoebe was such a great girl and it was her first year not only in high school but in the states and this is how we welcomed her. This is poor girl was call horrible names and told by another student to actually go and hang herself and she had things thrown had her(soda cans and bottles with soda still in them). Also her 11 year old sister was the one who found her dead, so please pray for her sister because that has to be the worst thing in the world fro that little girl to go through.
To those bullies, who know exactly who they are and so do the rest of us, I dont know how you can live with yourselves knowing that you made this nice and intelligent young lady believe that killing herself was easier and less painful than living a daily life.
RIP Phoebe! You are gone but will never be forgotten!"

That was written on Jan 18. Interesting that the poster has that lone post over on MassLive.

 

[Harley1971]

I hope I am doing this right, first post and all. Apologies if it's not.

I am wondering if anyone has any information about the parents of the bullies. If the parents hold high positions in the community, that would make some sense as to why the school administrators were reluctant to hold the bullies accountable.

Love this site and have been reading it for a long time. I've become too interested in this sad case to stay in hiding any longer.

 

[Paladine]

I hope I am doing this right, first post and all. Apologies if it's not.

I am wondering if anyone has any information about the parents of the bullies. If the parents hold high positions in the community, that would make some sense as to why the school administrators were reluctant to hold the bullies accountable.

Love this site and have been reading it for a long time. I've become too interested in this sad case to stay in hiding any longer.

I'm SO happy you aren't hiding any longer! :blowkiss: It has felt lonely on this forum, at times...

We have explored families to a certain degree...but there is more to be done, there, imo. We have just begun. This is a small town with alot of intertwining families...any info anyone can provide would be helpful.

ALL from my reading....I leave this here for websleuthing purposes...

The Mulveyhills seem to be quite prominent, from my reading. The Mom, Cydney, ran a column on the parents corner website for the school, organizing the football game food, drinks, get togethers. The Dad is Scot, 1 T or 2 TT's not sure...
http://shadleyfootball.vnsports.com/news/

The Nareys, well, Ray is deceased and Susan is Kayla's Mother. He was purportedly a firefighter who passed in 2008.
(links on 1st thread)

Charon-Velequez, nothing yet.

Renauds, Dad died in 2007, Mom is Kristen, Austin reportedly lives on his own, and no family showed up at his OUI arraignment.

Longe's...nothing

Mullins...this came to me from a family member, but for the purposes here, because I don't have links, please take it as 'rumor' for websleuthing purposes

Mom, Jennifer Mullins (aka Jenn) and Dad, Mead McCoy, not together for a long time.

I have more on them but don't feel I should post it without links...

 

[Paladine]

Here is the comment from someone who sounds as if he/she knew her:
http://connect.masslive.com/user/MBee20/index.html

"Phoebe was such a great girl and it was her first year not only in high school but in the states and this is how we welcomed her. This is poor girl was call horrible names and told by another student to actually go and hang herself and she had things thrown had her(soda cans and bottles with soda still in them). Also her 11 year old sister was the one who found her dead, so please pray for her sister because that has to be the worst thing in the world fro that little girl to go through.
To those bullies, who know exactly who they are and so do the rest of us, I dont know how you can live with yourselves knowing that you made this nice and intelligent young lady believe that killing herself was easier and less painful than living a daily life.
RIP Phoebe! You are gone but will never be forgotten!"

That was written on Jan 18. Interesting that the poster has that lone post over on MassLive.

Food for thought: I have heard many rumors from many sources that she was told to hang herself. But I have never heard one rumor from 1 source that Phoebe SAID she wanted to hang herself.

 

[Laurence]

It has felt lonely on this forum, at times...

We're in another news dead zone right now. The next court date is May 5th, so there will at least be those news reports to on it talk about. But for the moment there's not much besides reading the sniping over on the Mass Live forums.

 

[Paladine]

Boy...No wonder they were SO happy at the cotillion. Phoebe wasn't there. Imagine...if Phoebe had shown up? All dolled up...in her pretty new dress...getting all the boys attention. Bet they didn't want THAT to happen. Hence..the BIG smiles.

IMO

 

[Paladine]

We're in another news dead zone right now. The next court date is May 5th, so there will at least be those news reports to on it talk about. But for the moment there's not much besides reading the sniping over on the Mass Live forums.

Hey, Lawrence! :blowkiss:

Yeah...it's slow...but if we blink we might miss something important...

 

[Paladine]

The court documents (I am looking at the one regarding Sharon Velasquez) state that the last outgoing text message on Phoebe's phone was 2:48pm. The call to 911 was 4:55pm.

That leaves 2 hours and 7 min during which she constructed her plan and killed herself.

In the comments of one of the MassLive articles, at least one person states that there had been specific comments to Phoebe from these bullies to "go hang yourself".

I think that Phoebe felt as if the only way to bring an end to the torment was to finally give them what they said that the wanted. If she had killed herself by any way other than hanging, I would be astounded in fact.

But if you check time of death it's listed as between 2:48 to 4:30, it's in the DA's statement...so, did she really have that much time?

 

[Harley1971]

Thanks Paladine :blowkiss:

I wish there was more new news about this. I search every day for updates somewhere, anywhere...such a sad story, she had so much potential and was failed by so many people. Tragic.

 

[Paladine]

IMO Boy, I want to hit something, and I'm a non-violent bystander. Imagine how Phoebe's Family feels? This author is jumping on the bandwagon of publicity...

They BETTER show the END sentence in her book report where she SAYS the book helped her to "comprehend what people close to me" have gone through. But I bet they won't, I bet they'll proclaim Phoebe was a cutter. I am sickened.

Watch out cutters, and anyone else who has problems...it's open season! You are no longer protected under the law...according to this bullcrap...you can be harassed, stalked and raped!

And we’ve been following the tragic story of Phoebe Prince, a 15-year-old girl who hanged herself in January after enduring what prosecutors described as months of bullying. The teens who have been accused of bullying Prince are charged with civil rights violations. But defense attorneys are expected to use new evidence from Prince’s journal to argue that the teenage girl may have had psychological issues before the bullying. Apparently, she noted “cutting,” in her journal and referenced to the book, “Cutting,” by Dr. Steven Levenkron about understand and overcoming self-mutilation.

Tonight Anderson talks to Dr. Levenkron about why cutting and self-mutilation has become a growing trend among adolescents, teens and – especially – girls. Lisa Bloom also weighs in on how this new evidence may affect the case.

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/04/23/morning-buzz-assisted-suicide-goes-to-court/