2009.10.09 Duct Tape Photos From Remains Released

SDavidson11, I am so very sorry for what you were forced to endure! You bring a whole new perspective to this very topic. Thank you so much for sharing! So very good to know you were stronger than the evil perpetrated upon you. I am happy you are here to tell your story!
 
and to add to LambChop's comment, how and why did this purposed crazed individual get Caylee's body in the trunk of Casey's car and why did Casey ignore the smell for as long as she did? And where did Casey think Caylee was if not with the supposed Nanny she left her with.

Surely, if she had no idea how her car got that way,she would have taken it home to Dad and said Dad can you detail the car for me. But then of course she would have had to explain that Caylee was with the Nanny, who wasn't giving her back and the whole thing would have fallen apart (again).

the guy put the 4 year old in the girl's family's garage, he put her on her blanket that he had brought from her room. If he'd been allowed to complete his actions there I have no idea if he would have placed her in one of the car trunks. I don't know if Casey was the perp in Caylee's case or someone else. If someone else I don't know if it was a stranger or someone Casey knows. I don't know (yet) if Casey became involved as an accessory at some point or not, I don't know yet how much Casey knew. I don't know if the failure to report was because she was guilty, or thought she was covering for someone she knew, or if she thought someone she knew who would not harm Caylee had Caylee. I suspect Caylee's body was placed or transported in the Pontiac trunk but I'm waiting to see if this is proved. Casey didn't ignore the smell, she mentioned it to at least AH that I can recall. Anyway, that's just a response to your post since you asked but OK, back to the tape! :)
 
I will throw my personal experience out there to put things into perspective regarding the placement of duct tape on a live person. The duct tape was placed on me against my will by a man who escaped from prison and broke into my house. No need for I'm sorries as I have typed about this before and just want to put my perspective out here regarding this report. Measuring from 1/4 " from my bottom lip to cover the tip of my nose is 2 1/4 ". When my mouth was covered with the silver duct tape it was placed so that my mouth and the tip of my nose was covered and pulled tight into my hair. My hair is thick, long and naturally curly. Caylee's hair looked fine and rather thin. Once the tape was placed, I had to purse or pucker my lips to try to get some room to breathe. It was not easy. The tape can not be removed like a band aide where you can try to do the quick pull from side to side. What I had to do once I was cut loose was to pull the tape down around my chin and then stretched it to slide around my neck. My hair held the tape in place and it had to be cut out. It would be my assumption that because of Caylee's baby hair that the tape was able to adhere to her scalp and ear area. With the tape over my eyes, I could not see, but my forehead allowed the tape to rest on my cheekbones rather than stick to my eyes and eyelashes. Again, I could not remove it but rolled it up to my forehead and my hair had to be cut out to remove it. I think the tape could be the cause of death from my experience because I was 22 and had a hard time manipulating my lips to allow me to breathe. Poor Caylee didn't have a chance. Also, even if her hands were not bound I don't think she could remove the tape because 1. it hurts and 2. to find where to pull the tape off is quite difficult because you have to be strong enough to stretch the tape. Since Caylee is in a skeletonized state, I imagine the exact cause of death would be almost impossible to rule on involving soft tissue. The fact that an adult could survive having their face duct taped does not mean that an almost 3 year old child could survive the same. BJB is definitely on to something with the diagram of the tape placement IMO.

Thank you so much for posting this. Your perspective is extremely important for us to understand why Caylee would not have been able to remove the duct tape, even if we considered she was alive, awake and her hands were not bound. This is every bit as important as the schematics, photos, theories, etc... Getting to the truth truly is a team effort. :grouphug:

Thank you again for your input, Sdavidson. :blowkiss:
 
BJB,

Thank you for:
1) The countless hours you have spent on this
2) Complete attention to detail
3) Respectfulness
4) Copious notes
5) complete disclosure of findings vs. speculation
6) tenacity in seeking Justice for Caylee

there are many others here at WS who have helped in this same capacity and through the collective - I believe this "death mask" will be revealed in court. IOW the prosecutors read here and hired BJB to bring his findings in (and then support those findings with the forensic findings).
 
Thanks Beach and I apologize to BJB because I contributed to a sideways on this thread. It won't happen again and thanks for the fine work being done here.:blushing:
 
I am so sad to read about what you went through, S.

I agree about a child Caylee's age not being able to remove duct tape from her face even if her hands were free, I've always had that opinion. I can totally picture the way you describe getting the tape off because duct tape is very dangerous, tough tape, and so sticky. (I was very surprised when the state said in that one hearing that a child Caylee's age would be able to peel duct tape off her mouth if she were awake or not bound or whatever.) Regarding suffocation, she could also suffocate only with her mouth covered (stuffy nose or other causes).

My heart goes out to you for what you went through. Thank you very much for sharing your personal story with us. I always appreciate your posts.
 
Bond, thank you for all this incredible work. What was that thing they used to test in school along with math and reading? Spatial relationships? Yeah, I'm not too good at those. So I've been twisting my head around at my computer and flipping pictures and I have no idea if I have this right, BUT it seems to me that, based on the position of the Henkel logo in the first attached photo (the "inside" of the tape) and the assumption of a right-handed person applying the tape so the logo is toward their right-hand side, Q63 (the top one of the crossed tape pieces) was placed lower than Q64, not higher. But I agree that where it would diverge from the placement of Q64 would be to the right side of Caylee's face (the left side from our point of view looking at your drawing of the face), as you have shown.

So...I know that was the worst sentence ever, but the point is if you take the second page of the attached .pdf and hit "rotate clockwise" twice, that should be the placement of Q64, with Q63 crossed on top, from Casey's point of view looking at Caylee. :( Which might help if we are looking for impressions of the jaw area, etc.

OT: Have been attempting to have a "spatial relationship" w/ Kimster. But, you know what they say...those never work out :rolleyes: Badda bing, badda bang, badda boom...be here all week folks...seriously... :D

Lemme see, AZ. (pause...appreciate the rhyme)

I'm actually not too bad w/ spatial relationships. And methinks you caught me forgetting to compensate for 1 reversal.

Sooo....I closed the office door, made a little makeshift doll @ my desk, took a couple of pieces of scotch tape, held it up to the screen and walked myself through it. :whistle:

ETA: Arrrrgh. Still workin' on it.
 
OT: Have been attempting to have a "spatial relationship" w/ Kimster. But, you know what they say...those never work out :rolleyes: Badda bing, badda bang, badda boom...be here all week folks...seriously... :D

Lemme see, AZ. (pause...appreciate the rhyme)

I'm actually not too bad w/ spatial relationships. And methinks you caught me forgetting to compensate for 1 reversal.

Sooo....I closed the office door, made a little makeshift doll @ my desk, took a couple of pieces of scotch tape, held it up to the screen and walked myself through it. :whistle:

Actually looks like the divergent side would go up Caylee's left-side (our/Casey's right)

Sooo...now I hafta update things to reflect the new & improved (a.k.a. mo' betta) orientation :)

Based on my most recent email to you about the "loose" side of the duct tape roll having the logo toward the top of the tape, with the words instead of the logo "leading" as each piece is pulled off toward the right...I agree. :)

BTW, for those of you playing along at home, the reason I think the logos were lined up that way is that, otherwise, Q63 was pulled off the roll before Q64--but we know Q63 was found on top of Q64, so it was probably pulled off the roll second.
 
One of the main reasons I think KC put the tape on Caylee is her statement to RA in her letter: "I’ve had to forgive what happened to my Caylee, but I’m still angry. If it weren’t for God, screw where I’m sitting now. If it weren’t for him and for my unconditional love for my daughter, I would end whoever is responsible. It’s not my battle. . Think about it....it's not her battle. Her child, but not her battle. If she was not the killer than some other child IS in danger.....but it's not her battle. She claims to want to get close to RA's children but her OWN child....it's just not her battle. KC, at this point, is done with Caylee. And that is what we see in the rest of the letters. The taping of the whole face speaks of: I'm done with you kid, it's not my battle. KC shows more genuine (and I use that word loosely) affection to RA than her own daughter. Now that is sick...... jmo
 
I believe you said perps doing the taping. Who do you think would do that? Who would put four layers of duct tape on a child's face? Four layers is a bit of an overkill. Perps usually just kill the child and don't usually spend a lot of detailed time killing the child. This was four layers, each one ripped of one at a time. Sounds very personal, very personal. Someone very close to the child and meant to send a message. jmo

well I don't know if there were 4 layers on her face. Four some reason I didn't realize there was head hair on that many pieces or indications pieces had been in those positions on her face but I may need to reread or is there some document I'm missing, maybe so, I'll reread. One piece of duct tape on a little child's face is overkill already, IMO, so I agree with you there. I always thought it was possible Caylee had her mouth taped for the purpose of sexual assault by a perp, or to silence her crying or some other reason. Basically a violent person taped her mouth either in a rage or for sexual assault or maybe did actually tape her to suffocate her so she couldn't tell about a sexual molestation or something else, whatever the case, the taping either led to her death or other injuries led to her death, whether strangulation or wounds or whatever. But I'm not attached to one theory at this point. Sadly there are violent people who would place duct tape on a victim like that. I agree that the taping could even have been meant as a message (to Casey or someone in Casey's family, for example, or even as a message from Casey as you mention).

Man, I was just reminded of that disgusting duct taping video that we discussed here eons ago (especially disgusting because it was being sold as a ministry/parenting video, albeit joking, it did feature duct tape on kids' mouths etc. I despised it.) Didn't it actually have an actor named Z Hopkins? That's another old thread to link in I guess.
 
well I don't know if there were 4 layers on her face. Four some reason I didn't realize there was head hair on that many pieces or indications pieces had been in those positions on her face but I may need to reread or is there some document I'm missing, maybe so, I'll reread. One piece of duct tape on a little child's face is overkill already, IMO, so I agree with you there. I always thought it was possible Caylee had her mouth taped for the purpose of sexual assault by a perp, or to silence her crying or some other reason. Basically a violent person taped her mouth either in a rage or for sexual assault or maybe did actually tape her to suffocate her so she couldn't tell about a sexual molestation or something else, whatever the case, the taping either led to her death or other injuries led to her death, whether strangulation or wounds or whatever. But I'm not attached to one theory at this point. Sadly there are violent people who would place duct tape on a victim like that. I agree that the taping could even have been meant as a message (to Casey or someone in Casey's family, for example, or even as a message from Casey as you mention).
Man, I was just reminded of that disgusting duct taping video that we discussed here eons ago (especially disgusting because it was being sold as a ministry/parenting video, albeit joking, it did feature duct tape on kids' mouths etc. I despised it.) Didn't it actually have an actor named Z Hopkins? That's another old thread to link in I guess.

And how ironic that the day Caylee goes missing her mother walks into Blockbuster and rents two movies about this very subject.
 
Based on my most recent email to you about the "loose" side of the duct tape roll having the logo toward the top of the tape, with the words instead of the logo "leading" as each piece is pulled off toward the right...I agree. :)

BTW, for those of you playing along at home, the reason I think the logos were lined up that way is that, otherwise, Q63 was pulled off the roll before Q64--but we know Q63 was found on top of Q64, so it was probably pulled off the roll second.

Hang onto the logo-orientation for justabit. I re-oriented the divergent side to Caylee's left. Here you go.







I made it harder than it had to be :bang: LE flipped the Q63/64 over on its longest axis, effectively placing the "chin" at the bottom. You prolly sent me this pic originally, and I overlooked it...ran w/ the adhesive side image and started doin' spatial gymnastics...couldn't stick the landing though :bang:

Thanks!
 
Hang onto the logo-orientation for justabit. I re-oriented the divergent side to Caylee's left. Here you go.





Thanks. Now, here's my next observation to mess up your theory.:angel: Q62 was found on the skull, the same as Q63 and Q64, but Q63 and Q64 were described as "stuck together" while Q62 was not. Also, Q62 looks flat, while the Q63-Q64 combo has a big, jaw-shaped bulge in it. If Q62 were placed over the top of Q63-64, wouldn't it (1) have been removed as part of the "overlapped" duct tape? and (2) have the same bulge in it?

Pictures:
 

Attachments

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  • Q62.pdf
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One of the main reasons I think KC put the tape on Caylee is her statement to RA in her letter: "I’ve had to forgive what happened to my Caylee, but I’m still angry. If it weren’t for God, screw where I’m sitting now. If it weren’t for him and for my unconditional love for my daughter, I would end whoever is responsible. It’s not my battle. . Think about it....it's not her battle. Her child, but not her battle. If she was not the killer than some other child IS in danger.....but it's not her battle. She claims to want to get close to RA's children but her OWN child....it's just not her battle. KC, at this point, is done with Caylee. And that is what we see in the rest of the letters. The taping of the whole face speaks of: I'm done with you kid, it's not my battle. KC shows more genuine (and I use that word loosely) affection to RA than her own daughter. Now that is sick...... jmo

I agree totally about the strange "blank" she has about Caylee. So, so strange, and so many strange things in the letters. I wrote a response but I just can't post it here as much as I would love to discuss it. I will look for the thread where I can post it :)
 
Thanks. Now, here's my next observation to mess up your theory.:angel: Q62 was found on the skull, the same as Q63 and Q64, but Q63 and Q64 were described as "stuck together" while Q62 was not. Also, Q62 looks flat, while the Q63-Q64 combo has a big, jaw-shaped bulge in it. If Q62 were placed over the top of Q63-64, wouldn't it (1) have been removed as part of the "overlapped" duct tape? and (2) have the same bulge in it?

Pictures:

Thanks, AZ. Not a problem. It doesn't have to mess things up, IMHO.

It could be as simple as, Q62 - being the last piece applied - was the one that went moreso into the hair, hence, it was attached that way vs. being adhered to Q63 IYKWIM. That would fit w/ Q62 being the longest piece too. I know I scaled it as 9.3" (vs. a slightly shorter measurement by LE).

Just one option. It coulda just been loosely affixed and have come apart w/ minor handling. I dunno for sure, obviously, but, I don't think its really a fly in the ointment.
 
Based on my most recent email to you about the "loose" side of the duct tape roll having the logo toward the top of the tape, with the words instead of the logo "leading" as each piece is pulled off toward the right...I agree. :)

BTW, for those of you playing along at home, the reason I think the logos were lined up that way is that, otherwise, Q63 was pulled off the roll before Q64--but we know Q63 was found on top of Q64, so it was probably pulled off the roll second.

I don't agree on the orientation dictating the sequence any differently. Still think it works fine. But glad to see if I can come up w/ a graphic to illustrate better (or convince myself I'm really wrong :bang: :) )
 
Thanks, AZ. Not a problem. It doesn't have to mess things up, IMHO.

It could be as simple as, Q62 - being the last piece applied - was the one that went moreso into the hair, hence, it was attached that way vs. being adhered to Q63 IYKWIM. That would fit w/ Q62 being the longest piece too. I know I scaled it as 9.3" (vs. a slightly shorter measurement by LE).

Just one option. It coulda just been loosely affixed and have come apart w/ minor handling. I dunno for sure, obviously, but, I don't think its really a fly in the ointment.

I have 9.75 inches as FBI's measurement for Q62, but my notes don't say where I got that from. :banghead:
 

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