SM as a potential focus of the investigation

[2goldfish]

For anyone interested in kind of a long answer to this...

You can recover things deleted, even several times over from a computer, yes. But not if it doesn't have a hard drive. The information is stored on the hard drive, no hard drive, nothing to recover.

A camera is similar, my camera doesn't even store any images on the actual camera. Only on the memory card. (Many you can do both.) So if I take my memory card and throw it in the dumpster... put in a new one... (I have 6 anyway and they are $5, this isn't like an expensive hard drive) then absolutely not, they couldn't recover anything. Though, I am quite skeptical they could anyway.

Also, you set the time and date on a camera. My brother never set his. Mine is set correctly to the minute. I'm anal about it, he's not.

My computer will tell you what time my picture was "created" which is the time the picture was taken.

It will tell you what time it was "modified" on an edited version, when I last made an actual change that was saved.

It will tell you when it was last "accessed" on the computer as well. The last time it was opened or viewed.

All of these come with dates and times. Again, dependent on the date and time you have set on your computer.

Terri, may not even have the original image... she may have edited it or uploaded it and deleted the original. She may not have set the time or date on her camera.

There are different programs for different cameras that allow you to access even more information about an individual image. But I would not assume that they would be able to find out for sure...it depends on camera and computer settings, the type of camera, type of computer, what she did with the image...many different factors.

Hopefully that made sense... :waitasec:

for the record images and data can also be retrieved from the memory card of course if you remove it and dispose of it, and put a new one in before handing to LE and they check the card that you claim has had photos on it, and it obviously has not, that speaks for itself.


eta and your camera calls each photo a certain thing - if you have 6 cards with all different numbers and you give them one out of order, they're gonna also wonder why that is.

 

[Whisperer]

I've heard the word "focus" used now a couple of times regarding Terri. What exactly does that mean?

 

[angelmom]

I am not sure what side of the fence I'm on in regards to TH, so don't take it that way as I pose a question. This is merely to encourage discussion.

What has been released in the media to make you feel TH isn't involved, if anything?

I think there have been some great posts already that I agree with.

Just want to add:

1) Although in hindsight we know that Kyron left the school without being seen, I don't see how anyone could plan to get away with doing that. I don't think TH could be certain that no one would witness them leaving together and remember that. It makes me feel much more that this was an opportunistic crime and the responsible person just got lucky that it wasn't reported for so long. NO ONE could have predicted that. I think he thought he might have 45 min- 1 hour before they reconvened in the classroom and just got really "lucky."

2) Kyron's friend TP's story has a ring of truth to it. Not like a videotape of what happened, but the seed of truth in the center skewed by the perception of a child. It may not have been word for word exactly like he said, and there may have been some follow up he missed, but I do believe that the chaperone saw Kyron and then didn't when they reconvened in the classroom. I just can't imagine a kid coming up with that out of whole cloth.

3) I have seen NOTHING that makes me think she's guilty, and I've seen LOTS of stuff that seems perfectly innocent that others have tried to spin as evidence of guilt. The captions under the fb pics - totally normal in context. The cell phone pings - never confirmed, just a rumor on some unmoderated comment board. Not going to the talent show - never confirmed that Kyron had any significant part and the baby was probably sleeping. Going to the gym - maybe not my thing, but I've known several people who have done similar in life and death situations. This interview with her friend - I have done multiple, hours long tapings with CNN and others only to have them edit it down to 90 seconds and totally miss the point.

Also...

I can't judge that if LE has said you absolutely CANNOT help with the search b/c it could be misconstrued if you actually find something. Plus, not wanting to leave the baby after all of this.

I can't judge if LE has said it is in Kyron's best interest if you stay as far away from the media as possible and go about your normal activities. In that case, I would do as much as I could that they recommended, hoping against hope that I would follow the checklist and he would come home. As other posters have pointed out, NONE of the four parents have been accessible to the media, which makes me think it was a strong recommendation by LE, but only one is being judged for it.

I can't swear she didn't do it, and I've been wrong before, but I haven't seen a single thing to convince me.


ETA: I have included some rumors only for the sake of telling why they don't sway me, and clearly stating that they are rumors. I hope that's okay!

 

[Calliope]

I disagree. Whether she is is guilty or innocent no one is ever going to look at her the same after all that has been said about her on this forum alone. Unmoderated forums have had even more to say. She will never be able to go back to life as she knew it regardless of the outcome. Her friend is correct.

I agree we all deal with stressful situations differently. My mom is like you and would completely forget about herself. I have always fallen apart after the stress is over. I know I need to take care of myself if I am going to be able to care for someone else reliably. I may be on autopilot but I probably take better care of myself during times of great stress.

bbm

Oh, I have no doubt whatsoever that even if she is totally cleared by LE, even if they were to get a confession and DNA proving it was another, there will always be those who believe she was involved.

 

[Calliope]

This report came from a classmate of Kyron's, TP. Since LE has now stated that SM was the last person seen with Kyron I am assuming that they aren't considering TP's account. He is just a child and probably wanted to help but may have been confused. I would say that LE's version is the most accurate.

Actually, it appears they said the last person to have seen Kyron, not the last person to be seen with Kyron.

Per BeanE:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5313106&postcount=62"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Kyron Horman Q&A ***No Discussion***[/ame]



-6:42 Terri is the last known person to have seen Kyron before he disappeared.

-2:20 We're hoping that because she was here at the time that Kyron disappeared and with him and I mean it's natural she'd be with him, she brought him to school

-1:40 She's associated with the case because she was, you know, the last person to see Kyron.


But notice he doesn't say when or where. What Gates said doesn't necessarily contradict TP's account. It could also mean there is a witness who saw Terri leave with Kyron or that they have other proof he did so. Therefore making her (Terri) the last known person to have seen Kyron.

 

[Calliope]

I imagine she could be afraid she'd get asked hard questions and the interviews slanted to make look bad, whether she's innocent or guilty.

I don't think it would matter what questions were asked, hard or fluff. Considering how most are dissecting her to the bone, from the time she was born to the press conferences (blinking too much? 'roid rage? seriously?), I don't blame her. I wouldn't either.

 

[Calliope]

We only have the "friend's" word that Terri sent her friend to speak for her.

Friend: This is an outrage! I'm going to set this straight!

T: Ok.

....

Friend: Is it ok if I talk to the media?

T: Just don't say anything about Kyron's disappearance or the investigation.



We have no idea what Terri thought the friend was going to say OR if the friend didn't get carried away and say more than she was supposed to, or embellish in an attempt to make her point.

 

[Calliope]

I think there have been some great posts already that I agree with.

Just want to add:

1) Although in hindsight we know that Kyron left the school without being seen, I don't see how anyone could plan to get away with doing that. I don't think TH could be certain that no one would witness them leaving together and remember that. It makes me feel much more that this was an opportunistic crime and the responsible person just got lucky that it wasn't reported for so long. NO ONE could have predicted that. I think he thought he might have 45 min- 1 hour before they reconvened in the classroom and just got really "lucky."

2) Kyron's friend TP's story has a ring of truth to it. Not like a videotape of what happened, but the seed of truth in the center skewed by the perception of a child. It may not have been word for word exactly like he said, and there may have been some follow up he missed, but I do believe that the chaperone saw Kyron and then didn't when they reconvened in the classroom. I just can't imagine a kid coming up with that out of whole cloth.

3) I have seen NOTHING that makes me think she's guilty, and I've seen LOTS of stuff that seems perfectly innocent that others have tried to spin as evidence of guilt. The captions under the fb pics - totally normal in context. The cell phone pings - never confirmed, just a rumor on some unmoderated comment board. Not going to the talent show - never confirmed that Kyron had any significant part and the baby was probably sleeping. Going to the gym - maybe not my thing, but I've known several people who have done similar in life and death situations. This interview with her friend - I have done multiple, hours long tapings with CNN and others only to have them edit it down to 90 seconds and totally miss the point.

Also...

I can't judge that if LE has said you absolutely CANNOT help with the search b/c it could be misconstrued if you actually find something. Plus, not wanting to leave the baby after all of this.

I can't judge if LE has said it is in Kyron's best interest if you stay as far away from the media as possible and go about your normal activities. In that case, I would do as much as I could that they recommended, hoping against hope that I would follow the checklist and he would come home. As other posters have pointed out, NONE of the four parents have been accessible to the media, which makes me think it was a strong recommendation by LE, but only one is being judged for it.

I can't swear she didn't do it, and I've been wrong before, but I haven't seen a single thing to convince me.


ETA: I have included some rumors only for the sake of telling why they don't sway me, and clearly stating that they are rumors. I hope that's okay!

Excellent post. I agree with it all, especially that which I bolded.

I'm not convinced she's involved, and certainly not by what so many seem to think points to her being guilty. I'm on that fence, I suppose.... and have been swaying a bit from side to side.

 

[lynmaree]

Was wondering is anyone else was perplexed by the best friend's statement? He was very clear and sure of himself when he said "a substitute" had said K was probably in the bathroom....the principal said there weren't ANY substitutes that day and he must be mistaken...wasnt TMH a sub in the school on more than one previous occassion? What if she WAS the sub the friend saw and he just hadnt met her before as Kyrons step mom but only knew her as a sub he had seen around the school on other occassions....kids have a lot of friends in school and cant always link parents to their children....as the child of a teacher who used to sub at the school I attended, I actually downplayed when the sub was my mom...Im sure LE already did so but did they show him TMH's picture and ask if she WAS the sub he saw??? A long shot I know but just a thought...

 

[cluciano63]

I am not convinced either, mostly because I cannot buy into the premeditated part that seems to have been involved. But there is a lot I do not understand as to how this has been handled by LE and family, and at one point, LE made it clear that they had not told the family to keep quiet. It seemed as though he was frustrated and confused that they had not come forward too.

 

[Nellie]

I think there have been some great posts already that I agree with.

Just want to add:

1) Although in hindsight we know that Kyron left the school without being seen, I don't see how anyone could plan to get away with doing that. I don't think TH could be certain that no one would witness them leaving together and remember that. It makes me feel much more that this was an opportunistic crime and the responsible person just got lucky that it wasn't reported for so long. NO ONE could have predicted that. I think he thought he might have 45 min- 1 hour before they reconvened in the classroom and just got really "lucky."

2) Kyron's friend TP's story has a ring of truth to it. Not like a videotape of what happened, but the seed of truth in the center skewed by the perception of a child. It may not have been word for word exactly like he said, and there may have been some follow up he missed, but I do believe that the chaperone saw Kyron and then didn't when they reconvened in the classroom. I just can't imagine a kid coming up with that out of whole cloth.

3) I have seen NOTHING that makes me think she's guilty, and I've seen LOTS of stuff that seems perfectly innocent that others have tried to spin as evidence of guilt. The captions under the fb pics - totally normal in context. The cell phone pings - never confirmed, just a rumor on some unmoderated comment board. Not going to the talent show - never confirmed that Kyron had any significant part and the baby was probably sleeping. Going to the gym - maybe not my thing, but I've known several people who have done similar in life and death situations. This interview with her friend - I have done multiple, hours long tapings with CNN and others only to have them edit it down to 90 seconds and totally miss the point.

Also...

I can't judge that if LE has said you absolutely CANNOT help with the search b/c it could be misconstrued if you actually find something. Plus, not wanting to leave the baby after all of this.

I can't judge if LE has said it is in Kyron's best interest if you stay as far away from the media as possible and go about your normal activities. In that case, I would do as much as I could that they recommended, hoping against hope that I would follow the checklist and he would come home. As other posters have pointed out, NONE of the four parents have been accessible to the media, which makes me think it was a strong recommendation by LE, but only one is being judged for it.

I can't swear she didn't do it, and I've been wrong before, but I haven't seen a single thing to convince me.


ETA: I have included some rumors only for the sake of telling why they don't sway me, and clearly stating that they are rumors. I hope that's okay!

Great post!!!

...also by looking at all the information regarding TH don't you think she may be beating herself up for not walking him all the way to his classroom? Feels responsible... Think about it. The poor girl is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't...

Hopefully as time goes by people will quit pointing fingers and start doing something positive. Not one of us is a perfect parent and to point fingers at someone else without any CONFIRMED REASON is wrong. That family deserves support to help find their missing child. With all the LE involved there is no way somebody could fool them - give the professionals some credit.

So today is Monday and a new week! Let's focus on where Kyron could be instead of what TH did wrong... Lets have some compassion here instead of slinging so much mud. We really don't know what happened...

 

[SuziQ]

IMO, focusing on where the investigation appears to be going is not mudslinging nor is is mere fingerpointing. Finding where Kyron could be hinges on finding out where the perp placed him. And right now it appears that TH is the focus. Focus on her and you might be able to find Kyron years before someone happens to stumble across him.

 

[tlcya]

http://www.kgw.com/news/Close-friend-of-Horman-condemns-Internet-rumors-96764789.html
You know, her friend might be serving TMH better if she talked about how devastated she is over the loss of Kyron and not how upset she is at the speculation over her involvement.

I tend to disagree. Her friend would be serving TMH best by not jumping into the online fray as it were and adding to the speculation. I realize the temptation to take up for your friend is strong but by engaging or even acknowledging the unflattering online speculation her friend is only in essence adding fuel to the fire.

If I were in TMH's position and taking the brunt of all this suspicion and speculation I can only imagine that I would retreat further and further from all contact. I can only hope my friends and family would hold their tongues and not speak publicy about anything.

To engage in the debate against the negative commentors is only furthering the debate and once this kind of ugly accusation is out there on the web, it has already taken on a life of its own. She will forever be associated with this suspicion. A heavy heavy price to pay if she's done nothing wrong.

I was a staunch supporter of TMH from the get-go because all the nasty comments about gym visits and blinking to much in harsh glare of presser lights made me feel nasty and ashamed of my fellow man.

Now, I honestly don't know what to think. But I am trying very hard to continue to give her the benefit of the doubt as I would hope someone would do so for me. Should LE name her as a suspect, by all means, I will be the first to sleuth, profile, etc. But til then, I am really trying to stay neutral.

 

[annalyzer]

I hope there is some news today....

 

[Wings Of Light]

The cell phone pings - never confirmed, just a rumor on some unmoderated comment board.

Cell phone pings... not a rumor. Not only is it reported in the article below, but countless others I've read too. Williamette Weekly were the first to publish it...

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/06...yron-horman-focuses-on-step-mom-cell-records/

Her story, and the trail of cell phone pings... did not match up.

Have any theories why she lied to law enforcement about where she was that day?

 

[Lava]

I have waited a few days for news, and still nothing new. I haven't seen one thing that has made me believe SM was involved, so if the police really are looking at her they must have something good or they are grasping at straws? I just hope they aren't focusing on her to save face.

 

[tk71texas]

Cell phone pings... not a rumor. Not only is it reported in the article below, but countless others I've read too. Williamette Weekly were the first to publish it...
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/06...yron-horman-focuses-on-step-mom-cell-records/

Her story, and the trail of cell phone pings... did not match up.

Have any theories why she lied to law enforcement about where she was that day?

bbm.....I don't think the ww has been confirmed as a credible news source by ws....it's just a blog

 

[Aedrys]

I am still on the fence. A lot of you have made very good points on both sides of the issue. I just wish LE would put a little more out there to clear her instead of letting her look guilty. If she is not the focus of their investigation, they should say that and not let the rumor mill keep festering. I also wish they would come out and say that they really did think that Kyron had just wandered off at first because to me, that would explain TH's lack of concern at the beginning - if he just wandered off, then it's just a matter of him being found and I can see her doing things like going to the gym while she waits for him to be found. However, if this was a kidnapping/murder scenario from the start, then her actions definitely look suspicious and self centered. I'm having such a hard time judging whether she did this or not because we just don't know enough infomation about this investigation. I don't want all of the minute details, just enough to really clear this woman if she is really innocent. Why would LE just let an innocent person keep looking more and more guilty? If she wants to be mad at someone, she should be mad at LE for letting the rumor mill continue to churn.

 

[SurfieTX]

Not sure if this is significant, but I looked on my FB page and posts that are made from phones are signified by a statement, "via mobile web." Wondering if any photos/posts on SM's FB are made via mobile web - particularly the one from the science fair.

 

[Wings Of Light]

bbm.....I don't think the ww has been confirmed as a credible news source by ws....it's just a blog

I've seen a ton of other so called credible sources link directly to williamette weekly. They were the first to report this, and then all the others followed a day later (this was also first article to talk about stepmom being involved, and then the questionnaire came out and confirmed that). Granted, they said their source was LE not involved in the case, but coming from 5 independent LE sources, it's unlikely it's not true.