Hypothetically, how could the crime be pinned on George?

[DaughterAlice]

Reading the posts, I've seen several of you theorize that the defense MIGHT find a way to pin the murder on GA. As SHOCKING as that might seem, they have shown in the past that there is no line they will not cross. (I'm not saying that's all bad either! If you were on trial for murder, wouldn't you want a team that will fight until the bitter end for you?) I think the point is that they show a certain lack of scrupples.

The second I read KC's jailhouse letters to her "muffin" about the sexual abuse, the thought crossed my mind that it might be leverage that could be used by the defense.

If we were to study the history and actions of GA what has he said & done that could support a murder theory? I'm quite sure he's innocent of this crime, but it took MUCH LESS for them to point a finger at RK. What has GA done that could make him look guilty?

 

[faefrost]

I suspect that that is the one turn of the defense that the prosecutors have been speculating on and preparing for since the earliest LE interviews. They probably expected GA to actually at some point attempt to "give himself up" and attempt to take the blame for it all early on. And I am sure that they have meticulously tracked him and dissected his every action to 100% rule him out. It would not surprise me that they had communicated this fact to him before the grand jury hearing, just to prevent him from falling on his sword to save his daughter.

Besides, as heartless and pessimistic as this may sound, juries are not stupid. They know that GA is an ex homicide officer. They know that if he had any hand in this than we certainly would not have found Caylee double bagged and tossed like trash a few blocks from the house, with items traceable back to said house. Quite honestly if George was involved, than Caylee would never have been found at all.

 

[ynotdivein]

Thanks for starting this thread, DA. The big question for me if/when the defense throws this particular theory at the wall is that we don't know exact TOD, and we do know GA was home in the mornings. He wouldn't have gone to work until after 2 on June 16. This IMO could open the door to a number of wild and disgusting allegations...

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Yes, it is a bad thing that there is no line the defense will not cross. It is disgusting, immoral, manipulative and cery harmful to society. It's not something attorneys should be allowed to do. I can't say I would want such a defense if I were wrongly accused. I wouldn't want my family members being falsely accused. Never.

The defense needs to be called out on these tactics. The pattern with the defense seems to be the path of least resistance. They have provided no defense, no alibi, nothing to show casey is innocent. They simply find whatever is easiest to excuse her. Zanny, Roy Kronk, Jesse Grund, etc. If GA is a suitable patsy I'm sure they will accuse him and use everything they possibly can to create a nonsense story implicating. I think they could do it, but I doubt a jury will buy it. I wonder what Cindy's reaction would be if they went this route...

 

[ynotdivein]

Yes, it is a bad thing that there is no line the defense will not cross. It is disgusting, immoral, manipulative and cery harmful to society. It's not something attorneys should be allowed to do. I can't say I would want such a defense if I were wrongly accused. I wouldn't want my family members being falsely accused. Never.

The defense needs to be called out on these tactics. The pattern with the defense seems to be the path of least resistance. They have provided no defense, no alibi, nothing to show casey is innocent. They simply find whatever is easiest to excuse her. Zanny, Roy Kronk, Jesse Grund, etc. If GA is a suitable patsy I'm sure they will accuse him and use everything they possibly can to create a nonsense story implicating. I think they could do it, but I doubt a jury will buy it. I wonder what Cindy's reaction would be if they went this route...

Cindy has already shown that she can throw George out easier than she could Casey. If this is the story that will save Casey and allow CA to maintain her martyr role (and remember, the abuse was "never reported" according to her), then this is the story she will stick with.

 

[LambChop]

If anyone other than KC was responsible for Caylee being missing there would have been no 911 call (much less three), no police coming to the house, no frantic statements from CA, no Grand Jury testimony from GA, no body to be found ever and the excuse for a missing Caylee would have been her real father showed up and threatened to sue for custody so KC let him have her. No one would question, no one would look into it because the A's have no one close enough to them to care. It would be accepted just as all previous lies have been accepted throughout their lives. Someone should have stopped KC a long time ago and no one did......not her family, not her relatives, not her friends. Forgive her her trespasses. I mean what else could she possibly do. And now we know..... jmo

 

[Eidetic]

Thanks for starting this thread, DA. The big question for me if/when the defense throws this particular theory at the wall is that we don't know exact TOD, and we do know GA was home in the mornings. He wouldn't have gone to work until after 2 on June 16. This IMO could open the door to a number of wild and disgusting allegations...

+ Going back to work after recovering the impounded Pontiac his daughter (who was MIA with grand baby at this point) drove and acknowledging he recognized the smell as decomposition in a taped LE interview.

 

[Curious Me]

I see it coming - the bus is headed at GA. There's plenty that could be twisted around to make it look like Casey was just trying to keep Caylee away from GA. She could say she had to lie about having a job just to get away from the house. Didn't she say she didn't like being in the house alone with GA?

Duct tape and GA go hand in hand.

Hate to say it, but some of GA's own letters to Casey could be used against him.

I see that train a comin', it's coming down the line.

 

[sleutherontheside]

In the interest of fostering constructive discussion I will offer this opinion.

Much has been discussed about the role of "storytelling" in a capital trial. Some "stories" will be told in an attempt to give jurors alternative theories to consider...some will be told to humanize the defendant, some will be told to elicit empathy for the victim and some will be told to create reasonable doubt.

IMO.......the defense will not attempt to "pin" GA or any other individual person as the true "perp". First of all.......that isn't their job and second they couldn't prove it. To "prove" a specific person is the real "perp" there would have to be a full scale investigation and presentation of evidence.

The trial will focus on KC alone...she is the one charged. It will focus on whether a jury can be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that she is guilty of the charges.

Now......a "strategy" might be to tell "stories" that would facilitate a juror / jury considering that it is plausible to see how someone else would have a motive or opportunity to have been involved. The trial will not prove anyone did it....the defense will only attempt to prove that someone else could have. If a jury considers any other possibility...they can not find her guilty.

I think that what we are seeing in letters and expert "soundbites" is all part of a mitigation effort. If KC is found guilty......the mitigation portion will become CRUCIAL to keeping her from lethal injection and in trying to lessen her punishment. Mitigation is used to give jurors permission to punish with a sentence less than death.

The investigator assigned to the case via AL is looking for any small nugget of info that they can use to either create reasonable doubt OR to mitigate KC's actions.

I think it is a very fine line to discuss how the defense will pin it on someone else. They don't have to do that....it goes beyond the scope of their representation. They only have to offer alternative possibilities.......and as many as possible.

I hope that we can all discuss this topic without turning it into a how can we blame so and so. I don't think that that was the intent of the thread...but with passion comes impulsivity. I so enjoy good conversation....this is a great topic.....but really should cover more than just GA.

 

[affinity]

---This idea has never even really been hinted at officially (whereas Kronk and Jesse G were more than hinted at)--the thread seems to have no purpose except to think up and write up gossipy things. Don't see how this will help to discuss. You might as easily ask--Hypothetically, how can the crime be pinned on the man who loaned Casey the shovel? For it too is just grabbing something out of the sky--without anything "real".

For one thing, George was the only one at the memorial service who seemed to be unhappy and sad. It's really beyond the pale to even "go there".

 

[Horace Finklestein]

In the interest of fostering constructive discussion I will offer this opinion.

Much has been discussed about the role of "storytelling" in a capital trial. Some "stories" will be told in an attempt to give jurors alternative theories to consider...some will be told to humanize the defendant, some will be told to elicit empathy for the victim and some will be told to create reasonable doubt.

IMO.......the defense will not attempt to "pin" GA or any other individual person as the true "perp". First of all.......that isn't their job and second they couldn't prove it. To "prove" a specific person is the real "perp" there would have to be a full scale investigation and presentation of evidence.

The trial will focus on KC alone...she is the one charged. It will focus on whether a jury can be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that she is guilty of the charges.

Now......a "strategy" might be to tell "stories" that would facilitate a juror / jury considering that it is plausible to see how someone else would have a motive or opportunity to have been involved. The trial will not prove anyone did it....the defense will only attempt to prove that someone else could have. If a jury considers any other possibility...they can not find her guilty.

I think that what we are seeing in letters and expert "soundbites" is all part of a mitigation effort. If KC is found guilty......the mitigation portion will become CRUCIAL to keeping her from lethal injection and in trying to lessen her punishment. Mitigation is used to give jurors permission to punish with a sentence less than death.

The investigator assigned to the case via AL is looking for any small nugget of info that they can use to either create reasonable doubt OR to mitigate KC's actions.

I think it is a very fine line to discuss how the defense will pin it on someone else. They don't have to do that....it goes beyond the scope of their representation. They only have to offer alternative possibilities.......and as many as possible.

I hope that we can all discuss this topic without turning it into a how can we blame so and so. I don't think that that was the intent of the thread...but with passion comes impulsivity. I so enjoy good conversation....this is a great topic.....but really should cover more than just GA.

I don't see the difference between pinning it on someone and creating a story to make it look like they did it. They've done this with Roy Kronk - implying that he had a past of abusing women and using duct tape, the nonsense with demanding the texas equussearch records is obviously an attempt to find someone with a 'shady' past, etc., they have done more than present alternate possibilities. I don't think they see it as beyond the scope of their representation. They are desperate, unethical and uninterested in the truth and that's a dangerous combo for GA imo.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

---This idea has never even really been hinted at officially (whereas Kronk and Jesse G were more than hinted at)--the thread seems to have no purpose except to think up and write up gossipy things. Don't see how this will help to discuss. You might as easily ask--Hypothetically, how can the crime be pinned on the man who loaned Casey the shovel? For it too is just grabbing something out of the sky--without anything "real".

For one thing, George was the only one at the memorial service who seemed to be unhappy and sad. It's really beyond the pale to even "go there".

I don't think it's hard to predict this is something the defense may try to do. He was the last one to see caylee alive, etc. There's lots of room for them to fabricate stories and as you pointed out, they do like to go after anyone they can to portray them as a possible killer.

 

[sleutherontheside]

I don't see the difference between pinning it on someone and creating a story to make it look like they did it. They've done this with Roy Kronk - implying that he had a past of abusing women and using duct tape, the nonsense with demanding the texas equussearch records is obviously an attempt to find someone with a 'shady' past, etc., they have done more than present alternate possibilities. I don't think they see it as beyond the scope of their representation. They are desperate, unethical and uninterested in the truth and that's a dangerous combo for GA imo.

But see...we haven't gotten to the trial yet. Once they get in that courtroom they CAN'T blame someone else. They can only create a scenario / story that could suggest that someone else did it.

The job of the defense is to represent KC and to use the system to her advantage...NOT to investigate and solve the crime.

Now...do I agree with their tactics????? Not one bit. Are they unethical???? IMO much of their behavior could be considered "shady".

A point to consider.....while the defense has raised concerns about Kronk..... and others......have they ever said he did it or that another specific party did it???? NO they haven't...their bashing of Kronk and others is their "story".

 

[DaughterAlice]

---This idea has never even really been hinted at officially (whereas Kronk and Jesse G were more than hinted at)--the thread seems to have no purpose except to think up and write up gossipy things. Don't see how this will help to discuss. You might as easily ask--Hypothetically, how can the crime be pinned on the man who loaned Casey the shovel? For it too is just grabbing something out of the sky--without anything "real".

For one thing, George was the only one at the memorial service who seemed to be unhappy and sad. It's really beyond the pale to even "go there".

BBM

Sorry affinity. It's just soft fodder for conversation I guess. I'm not the "gossipy" type. I just wanted to explore what seemed like a popular opinion. You don't have to read or respond if you don't like it*.

*Respectfully spoken though . . . because I have always valued your opinion, and I probably always will.

 

[Just Jayla]

I don't know if it can be without KC's testimony-The state is going to make a very compelling argument against Casey, and she has not even hinted at cracking under the pressure of covering for her dad (or anyone, even herself) in the face of lethal injection.

KC would have lots of splainin to do in order to 1st: undo her lies, then 2nd: from a fresh, lie-less starting point, tell a story about GA that will stick. She was the only other person there with Caylee, so if GA killed Caylee, KC would be the link between the two.

 

[LinasK]

I don't know if it can be without KC's testimony-The state is going to make a very compelling argument against Casey, and she has not even hinted at cracking under the pressure of covering for her dad (or anyone, even herself) in the face of lethal injection.

KC would have lots of splainin to do in order to 1st: undo her lies, then 2nd: from a fresh, lie-less starting point, tell a story about GA that will stick. She was the only other person there with Caylee, so if GA killed Caylee, KC would be the link between the two.

I see Casey doing that quicker than I do changing to an accident scenario...

 

[chefmom]

I don't know if it can be without KC's testimony-The state is going to make a very compelling argument against Casey, and she has not even hinted at cracking under the pressure of covering for her dad (or anyone, even herself) in the face of lethal injection.

KC would have lots of splainin to do in order to 1st: undo her lies, then 2nd: from a fresh, lie-less starting point, tell a story about GA that will stick. She was the only other person there with Caylee, so if GA killed Caylee, KC would be the link between the two.

BBM

This is what I believe, also. JB can't go into that court room and give a whole new story without KC taking the stand and telling the new story herself. And that just ain't gonna happen, IMO.

 

[Infojunkie]

George was never, ever mentioned as the last person seen with Caylee. It has always been KC, aside from that is the 31 days....he was acutally working during those days...the defense would be stupid to try to implicate him. He's got alibis out the wazoo for those 31 days.

 

[hroark2112]

While some may feel threads like this are useless, I disagree. The defense will spend as much time as they deem necessary until jury selection throwing all the mud against the wall that they can, hoping something will stick. While most would find it repulsive, it is the reality of this particular case. The defense really doesn't have much else to do but fling theories out there and hope to taint potential jurors.

There's no racist cop, no thump on the air conditioner, no glove found in the dark, no bloody Bronco that was touched by someone with an agenda. This case, quite frankly, sucks (IMO, of course) for a defense attorney. All they're really left with to hope to get an acquittal is the autopsy with no real cause of death, the "no eye-witness" issue, and the hope that they can make a jury think someone else did it. I'm glad I'm not on the defense team, because I'd be begging her to go for a plea to save her derriere!!

All that being said, GA is a tough one to blame. He's not a cold hearted *advertiser censored* like his daughter, he likely didn't have the opportunity to commit the crime, and quite honestly I don't see Casey spending her prime partying years in jail like this for something her father did. I don't think she's got it in her to be this strong, to take the blame for something someone else did. She'd throw him under the first bus she could find.

Finally, it doesn't fit in with Casey's version of things. In none of her stories does she say anything about leaving Caylee with her family immediately before she disappeared. If one of the family had done something, the 911 calls would have been VERY different.

 

[Infojunkie]

While some may feel threads like this are useless, I disagree. The defense will spend as much time as they deem necessary until jury selection throwing all the mud against the wall that they can, hoping something will stick. While most would find it repulsive, it is the reality of this particular case. The defense really doesn't have much else to do but fling theories out there and hope to taint potential jurors.

There's no racist cop, no thump on the air conditioner, no glove found in the dark, no bloody Bronco that was touched by someone with an agenda. This case, quite frankly, sucks (IMO, of course) for a defense attorney. All they're really left with to hope to get an acquittal is the autopsy with no real cause of death, the "no eye-witness" issue, and the hope that they can make a jury think someone else did it. I'm glad I'm not on the defense team, because I'd be begging her to go for a plea to save her derriere!!

All that being said, GA is a tough one to blame. He's not a cold hearted *advertiser censored* like his daughter, he likely didn't have the opportunity to commit the crime, and quite honestly I don't see Casey spending her prime partying years in jail like this for something her father did. I don't think she's got it in her to be this strong, to take the blame for something someone else did. She'd throw him under the first bus she could find.

Finally, it doesn't fit in with Casey's version of things. In none of her stories does she say anything about leaving Caylee with her family immediately before she disappeared. If one of the family had done something, the 911 calls would have been VERY different.

But she could and would lie to protect those she deemed *important. Cindy, George and Lee are laying in the road. We just need to wait and see which gear the bus is going to hit before they roll over them in the road.
Lying is what Casey does best.

ETA *Casey is important, no one else...so she will lie and lie and lie to protect herself.