What Do We Know That We Really Know?

[AvalonBlue]

After Dateline Monday night...

After the "No News" News Presser Tuesday...

After the Audio Interview with Kaine & Desiree...

What do we know that we really know?:waitasec:

My head is aching after reading and listening and listening and reading -- and I realize I know so little right this minute about what I've been believing I knew that I don't even know how to make a list of all the things I don't know if I know anymore.:banghead:

I feel like I might need to start all over from the beginning -- and I just can't bear trying to face that all by myself. HELP?

Here's my biggest "For Instance" at the moment:

It seems that so much of what all of us have been basing so many of our "theories" on has been put out there by KH, DY, & to some degree TY. Today, I realized that much of what they have been saying came directly from Terri and that there may not be any other corroborating "evidence" from anyone else!:doh:

I hate to sound totally naive, however, I sure didn't know so much has been based just on what Terri is said to have said. :shocked2:

I do believe from just walking the planet lo' these many years that there are folks who tell a little bit here and a little bit there to different people and manage to confuse and confabulate and weave such a web that everyone concerned gets tangled up and the truth gets so lost it's hard to remember what letter "truth" starts with -- much less how to spell "fact."

So, how do we start "over" in a sense by establishing what it really is that (we think) we know that we know?:Banane15:

For starters, I think I still know:

1. Terri was the last known person to see Ky at 8:45 a.m. 6/4/10 at Skyline School.

2. There was obviously enough confusion about the alleged MD appointment for Ky that his absence, when noticed, seems to not have raised any red flags.

3. Ky did not get off the bus at the Horman residence that fateful afternoon.

Okay, anyone want to help re-construct?
(After the pain reliever takes effect and/or an adult beverage is consumed?)
:crosseyed: :drink: :tipsy:

 

[SmoothOperator]

we know that within days a flier with most surprisingly pictures focused on Terri and the white F250 was sent out for locals, mainly school kids and parents were asked to fill out


we know that Jim Kelley and 1 other neighbor both witnessed on June 4th a white similar truck to Kaines was spotted with a female driver not once but twice at extremely odd times of the day and night (and tho it was rumored to be a blond woman, this was never found confirmed nor even stated anywhere so as far as we know it is just a female) Also related to this two of our posters went tp this exact location and found it to be so very remote and out if the way that nearly impossible for someone to just "end up there"

we do know(tho many try to refute or question this fact but IMO it is fact due to...)In court document filed by Laura rackner whe says that she was informed by LE of the MFH plot along with sexual in nature texts resembling those to MC from the landscaper that Terri attempted to hire in MFH plot. and I even have a link...
"Law enforcement has informed Petitioner's attorney that Respondent's stated personal relationship concerns and sexual overtures to Mr. C*** resembles these made to the man Respondent previously attempted to hire to murder Petitioner." -end quote
http://images.bimedia.net/documents/horman-affair.pdf

we know that after kaine receiving knowledge of MFH from LE that he immediately moved himself and baby K from the residence on Sheltered Nook, followed by the above mentioned RO and divorce papers.

we know that immediately following Kaine and baby Ks moving that Terri started a sexual in nature comminication with MC that included graphic sexual activity.

we know that Terri did not contest the restraining order nor the custody of baby K with Kaine and absolutely no visitation for Terri with her daughter.

we know that Terri hired a very prominent defense lawyer(not a family law lawyer) but a defense lawyer,
we know that Terri did not contest the Ro revision that had her move out of the family home.

we know that she vacated last saturday by 3pm, did not take her custom plated mustang and moved south to Roseburg with her parents.

we know that Terri has not spoken publicly not ONCE, NOT to plead her innocence, not to contest ANY of the so very many accusations, NOR to ever once plead for Kyron's return..


These are just a few off the top of my head that I could think of that we knew or had confirmation or links to back up. Feel free to add to or to disagree with any and I will provide proof in all possible that are in question

 

[AvalonBlue]

we know that within days a flier with most surprisingly pictures focused on Terri and the white F250 was sent out for locals, mainly school kids and parents were asked to fill out


we know that Jim Kelley and 1 other neighbor both witnessed on June 4th a white similar truck to Kaines was spotted with a female driver not once but twice at extremely odd times of the day and night (and tho it was rumored to be a blond woman, this was never found confirmed nor even stated anywhere so as far as we know it is just a female) Also related to this two of our posters went tp this exact location and found it to be so very remote and out if the way that nearly impossible for someone to just "end up there"

we do know(tho many try to refute or question this fact but IMO it is fact due to...)In court document filed by Laura rackner whe says that she was informed by LE of the MFH plot along with sexual in nature texts resembling those to MC from the landscaper that Terri attempted to hire in MFH plot. and I even have a link...
"Law enforcement has informed Petitioner's attorney that Respondent's stated personal relationship concerns and sexual overtures to Mr. C*** resembles these made to the man Respondent previously attempted to hire to murder Petitioner." -end quote
http://images.bimedia.net/documents/horman-affair.pdf

we know that after kaine receiving knowledge of MFH from LE that he immediately moved himself and baby K from the residence on Sheltered Nook, followed by the above mentioned RO and divorce papers.

we know that immediately following Kaine and baby Ks moving that Terri started a sexual in nature comminication with MC that included graphic sexual activity.

we know that Terri did not contest the restraining order nor the custody of baby K with Kaine and absolutely no visitation for Terri with her daughter.

we know that Terri hired a very prominent defense lawyer(not a family law lawyer) but a defense lawyer,
we know that Terri did not contest the Ro revision that had her move out of the family home.

we know that she vacated last saturday by 3pm, did not take her custom plated mustang and moved south to Roseburg with her parents.

we know that Terri has not spoken publicly not ONCE, NOT to plead her innocence, not to contest ANY of the so very many accusations, NOR to ever once plead for Kyron's return..


These are just a few off the top of my head that I could think of that we knew or had confirmation or links to back up. Feel free to add to or to disagree with any and I will provide proof in all possible that are in question

Thank you so much, SmoothOperator!:blowkiss:

I really appreciate you responding and giving such good facts.:sleuth:

I'm actually starting to feel a bit like myself again. (IMHO Sanity is NOT overrated.):beamup:

Please keep adding to your list as you're able and willing. I look forward to what you come up with next.

 

[CarmelEyesD]

We know that almost everything that pointed suspicion at Terri put out there by Kaine and Desiree was based on things said to them by Terri-even though they said she is such a liar.

 

[nurseratchett]

We know there was agrand jury convened on Monday, 7/26/2010 and a close friend of TH, DeDe spicher was subpoenaed.

 

[funknut]

Thanks to those who can put their emotions and theorizing aside and be respectable to the OP's request to state facts.

We know that almost everything that pointed suspicion at Terri put out there by Kaine and Desiree was based on things said to them by Terri-even though they said she is such a liar.

We know that law enforcement has been informing Kaine and Desiree of a great deal of possibilities. We know that Kaine and Desiree have expressed their belief that Terri is concealing information based on things Terri has said directly to them.

 

[nurseratchett]

We know it has been 54 days since Kyron has been seen, at least by Kaine, Desiree, or Tony. ETA- (well, I guess we don't know that, do we? IMO, they have not, but can't say I "know" that)

We know the reward has doubled to 50 K.

We know Kyron likes sushi, mac and cheese, and the song Fireflies, his favorite color is red, and he almost always smiles in pictures.

We know Terri Moulton participated, and placed 4th, in a body building competition in 2005.

We know LE and the FBI considers Kyron a "Missing and Endangered" child.

 

[Leila]

We know that on June 4th:

DY and TY were in Medford where they live, and over 4 hours from Portland.

KH was at work from approximately 7:30am to 2:00pm.

TH took Kyron to school using the white truck in order to transport Kyron's project for the science fair.

TH's whereabouts are known until 11:39am when she signs into the gym.

 

[AvalonBlue]

We know that almost everything that pointed suspicion at Terri put out there by Kaine and Desiree was based on things said to them by Terri-even though they said she is such a liar.

Yes, good point, CarmelEyesD, and that is what has me so confused at this point.

Have we been believing lies from a purported liar, has a purported liar been lied about, has a purported liar been actually lying and getting so many of us to try to make sense of a background, a timeline, etc. that contains so many red herrings that the best we can hope for at this point is to just make red herring stew?:trout:

Whether Terri is definitely involved, peripherally involved, or not involved at all, it seems pretty clear that things she has said herself have been repeated here and there and everywhere -- and don't paint a pretty picture -- no matter the outcome.

This is like a really bad murder mystery with lots of "clues" that may have led us down the proverbial garden path -- and now right smack dab in the middle of the book we have to decide how angry we are at perhaps being hoodwinked -- and if we even want to finish the book. :book:

If we do want to finish the book, it's the kind where we have to bookmark the page we've gotten to and then backtrack to find out how we found out what was leading us to our original conclusion that may not be based in accurate fact at all.:ashamed0005:

No wonder I haven't finished a good novel since this investigation began. The truth about this case may very well turn out to be stranger than fiction.

 

[Angel4u2Whisper2]

We know that missing and endangered child, Kyron is loved and missed tremendously by his parents, classmates, friends and community. We know K is allergic to bee stings, loves art and is a shy boy that doesn't venture far from adults. K wears glasses and his biggest fear is to not have them. Kyron is a beautiful child that is artistic and kind. K is missing from Skyland Elementary and the last person reported to have seen him is his step mother Terri on the morning of June 4 (aprox. 8:45)

raying: We know that he needs to come home soon! He is missed greatly and loved deeply.

 

[AvalonBlue]

WHAT DO WE KNOW THAT WE REALLY KNOW?

1. Terri was the last known person to see Ky at 8:45 a.m. 6/4/10 at Skyline School.

2. There was obviously enough confusion about the alleged MD appointment for Ky that his absence, when noticed, seems to not have raised any red flags.

3. Ky did not get off the bus at the Horman residence that fateful afternoon.

4. A flier was produced by MCSO and sent to Skyline School parents and students with pics of Terri and a white truck similar to the one she was said to be driving. (Others could download this flier and email or send it in to MCSO if it was felt the information could be useful to the investigation.)

5. On June 4th, both local Jim Kelley and one other neighbor both witnessed a white truck similar to the Hormans', spotted twice at extremely odd times of the day and night. The witnesses stated that there was a female driver in both instances. In addition, two WS posters went to the exact location where the truck had been spotted and found it to "be so very remote and out of the way" that it would be "nearly impossible for someone" to just "end up there."

6. We do know that Kaine's attorney, Laura Rackner (who says she was informed by LE of the MFH plot, along with "sexual in nature texts resembling those to MC and from the landscaper that Terri allegedly attempted to hire in the MFH plot) used this information in filing the RO and divorce papers against Terri Horman.

7. We do know that after Kaine receiving knowledge of the MFH from LE that he immediately moved himself and Baby K from the residence on Sheltered Nook, followed by the above mentioned RO and divorce papers.

8. We know that within a few days of Kaine and Baby K moving out of the family residence that Terri started a "sexual in nature" communication with MC that included graphic text and pics.

9. We do know that Terri did not contest the RO nor the custody of Baby K and that there is absolutely no visitation for Terri with her daughter.

10. We know Terri hired a very prominent defense lawyer (not a family law attorney.)

11. We know that Terri did not contest the RO revision that had her move out of the family home.

12. We do know that Terri vacated the family home last Saturday (7/17) by 3 p.m. or perhaps actually Friday evening (7/16).

13. We know that Terri did not take her custom plated Mustang when she moved south to Roseburg with her parents.

14. We know that Terri has not spoken publicly -- to plead her innocence, to contest any of the accusations against her, nor to ever once plead for Kyron's return.

15. We know there was a Grand Jury convened on Monday, 7/26/10, and a close friend of TH, DeDe Spicher was subpoenaed.

16. We know that LE has been informing Kaine and Desiree of a great deal of possibilities.

17. We know that Kaine and Desiree have expressed their belief that Terri is concealing information based on things Terri has said directly to them.

18. We know it has been reported that it has been 54 days since Ky has been seen, at least by Kaine, Desiree, or Tony -- per their report.

19. We know the reward has doubled to 50 K as of 3 p.m. on Tuesday, 7/27/10.

20. We know Kyron likes sushi, mac and cheese, and the song Fireflies, his favorite color is red, and he almost always smiles in pictures.

21. We know Terri Moulton participated, and placed 4th, in a body building competition in 2005.

22. We know LE and the FBI consider Kyron a "Missing and Endangered" child.

23. On June 4th, we know that DY and TY were in Medford, where they live, and over four hours from Portland.

24. We know that KH was at work at Intel from approximately 7:30 a.m. to 2:00 p.m.

25. We know TH took Kyron to Skyline School using the white truck with the stated purpose of transporting Kyron's science project back home after the science fair.

26. We know that missing and endangered child, Kyron, is loved and missed tremendously by his parents, classmates, friends and community.

27. We know Ky is allergic to bee stings, loves art, and is a shy boy that doesn't venture far from adults.

28. We know that Ky wears glasses and his biggest fear is to not have them.

29. We know that Ky is a beautiful child that is artistic and kind.

(Thank you to all who have posted so far. Please feel free to post any needed corrections, clarifications, links, questions, etc. -- and to add to and carry on this list.)

God bless Kyron and all who love him. We are legion -- and we are praying.
raying:raying:raying:

 

[Geralyn]

questions:
We know SI was searched early on. Do we have any LE statements as to why?
Do we know factually that at least 3 of TH's friends have had searches conducted on their (homes)?

 

[BeanE]

We know that things are being stated as fact in this thread without links to substantiate them.

We know that opinions are being stated in this thread as facts.

We know that incorrect information is being stated as facts in this thread.

We know that we should clean up our own posts, and not cause the hard working mods even more work.

 

[Calliope]

Here's my biggest "For Instance" at the moment:

It seems that so much of what all of us have been basing so many of our "theories" on has been put out there by KH, DY, & to some degree TY. Today, I realized that much of what they have been saying came directly from Terri and that there may not be any other corroborating "evidence" from anyone else!:doh:

I hate to sound totally naive, however, I sure didn't know so much has been based just on what Terri is said to have said. :shocked2:

s/bbm

And they tell us she's a habitual liar and they don't believe what she says...

So what are WE to believe???

 

[Calliope]

Thanks to those who can put their emotions and theorizing aside and be respectable to the OP's request to state facts.



We know that law enforcement has been informing Kaine and Desiree of a great deal of possibilities. We know that Kaine and Desiree have expressed their belief that Terri is concealing information based on things Terri has said directly to them.

bbm

IIRC, in the interview they stated just the opposite. That their info isn't coming from LE, but Terri. The liar.

 

[chasing.halos]

questions:
We know SI was searched early on. Do we have any LE statements as to why?
Do we know factually that at least 3 of TH's friends have had searches conducted on their (homes)?

Nope, we do not have any idea why Sauvie's was searched.

Thanks for the thread. Quite frankly I am getting tired of all this other "drama." I really do not give a rats how much weight TH lost when she was competing or that KH maybe cheated on DY... and so on and so on and so on.
I just want to know where our lil Kyron is and what LE wants us to know so that we can help find him.
Sorry if I got a little O/T- mostly I wanted to thank you for this thread because it brings us back to the important stuff IMO.

-cranky chasing.halos

 

[Wondergirl]

I feel like I might need to start all over from the beginning -- and I just can't bear trying to face that all by myself. HELP?

AvalonBlue: I feel this exact way, and I am with ya and willing to help "start at the beginning".......

Is there a verified Timeline and Facts Thread here???

 

[Wondergirl]

we know that Jim Kelley and 1 other neighbor both witnessed on June 4th a white similar truck to Kaines was spotted with a female driver not once but twice at extremely odd times of the day and night (and tho it was rumored to be a blond woman, this was never found confirmed nor even stated anywhere so as far as we know it is just a female) Also related to this two of our posters went tp this exact location and found it to be so very remote and out if the way that nearly impossible for someone to just "end up there"

BBM: Does anyone have a map of this location???

 

[Peliman]

AvalonBlue: I feel this exact way, and I am with ya and willing to help "start at the beginning".......

Is there a verified Timeline and Facts Thread here???

I'm not sure but I did come across a timeline page done by the OregonLive.com news site. Actually I was looking at it this morning.

This is a timeline of events. The Oregonian's reporters and editors will adjust this account over time to add and adjust information.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_chronology_of_eve.html

 

[Wondergirl]

We know that LE believes there is "criminal behaviour" involved in Kyron's disappearance, and that they think that no other child/public is at risk.

We know that LE is prepared for a long investigation.