MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #2

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This is good right?
I wonder what things they found that were "of interest"? Do you think it could be particles, maybe they are thinking are bone fragments? Or pieces of cloth - his coat?
PRAYING for answers soon...

I would think its VERY good! They wouldn't spend the $ to further test whatever they MAY have found were they not confident that the spending was a good investment! I hope they found something! Anything that might lead them to answers in this most horrific crime!!
 
Question:
Does anyone believe LE has more info. than the public has regarding DR or any other suspects?

I do believe LE has enough significant info on DR to name him a POI. I agree with the other posters about the public's right to know. If it in anyway impedes an investigation then I don't want to know. On the other hand, if the information they have should turn out to be unfounded, why should DR receive anymore negative publicity.

Very interesting point about the search warrants being sealed even to the family. I thought they were only sealed from the public at large. I'm encouraged they found enough to do a forensic investigation. Still concerned though that too much time has passed ...

O/T ... I listened to an interview with criminal profiler Pat Brown. She made the point of how often early in an investigation, important information can be missed simply due to the amount of info LE must sift through in addition to being in the field, doing interviews, etc. Her point was a criminal profiler could be useful in every investigation because they have the time to thoroughly look at all the available information and draw conclusions which can allow LE to focus their investigation in the right direction. Though it's unlike to become a reality, you can see how beneficial this could be for the smaller LE depts who don't have such serious cases that often, let alone not enough funding.
 
It seems the entire search is unclear from the objectives of the search to what was found. I'm an advocate of the public's right to know, and after 21 yrs I don't see how anything the public is told will affect the investigation. If DR is a POI, we know that, but why is he a POI to LE? When a search warrant is presented to the property owners, I believe it has to state the reason(s) for the search, so DR and his parents must know what LE is looking for. So why the big secret?

Not so. I believe I read an article (which I will link if I am able to relocate it) which stated that even the property owners were unaware of what was being searched FOR on and about their property. Sounds like they were presented a warrant, and the items to be searched for were SEALED from their view from what I read.

The intent of the seal is to prevent even THEM from knowing what police are looking for (and that way if police do NOT find anything, then the property owners, and POI are not really able to go back and move/hide/destroy whatever they're looking for -- since they themselves are unclear as to whats being sought!).

Its a good idea to help preserve whatever might be on the property -- because if investigators end up having to go back, and things are moved around, disturbed noticeably -- then they might be tipped off that they're on the right track, and may have further reason to be suspicious of those on the property!! IF something is there, and IF DR knows that it is/was... he'll be staining his undergarments by now I'm sure -- because there are good odds that IF something was there at some point (blood, bones, fabric etc)... that some tiny DNA might still be lurking about for LE to find!!

EDITED TO ADD:
Shergal -- I hadn't gotten to your post where you explained that it was sealed... you beat me to it!! :D
 
I do believe LE has enough significant info on DR to name him a POI. I agree with the other posters about the public's right to know. If it in anyway impedes an investigation then I don't want to know. On the other hand, if the information they have should turn out to be unfounded, why should DR receive anymore negative publicity.

Very interesting point about the search warrants being sealed even to the family. I thought they were only sealed from the public at large. I'm encouraged they found enough to do a forensic investigation. Still concerned though that too much time has passed ...

O/T ... I listened to an interview with criminal profiler Pat Brown. She made the point of how often early in an investigation, important information can be missed simply due to the amount of info LE must sift through in addition to being in the field, doing interviews, etc. Her point was a criminal profiler could be useful in every investigation because they have the time to thoroughly look at all the available information and draw conclusions which can allow LE to focus their investigation in the right direction. Though it's unlike to become a reality, you can see how beneficial this could be for the smaller LE depts who don't have such serious cases that often, let alone not enough funding.

I will glady bite my nails and wait w/ anticipation for any info. - if it means this case will be solved.
What is the proper....not sure what word i'm looking for...process, maybe - to name someone a POI? It surely couldn't be he's a POI b/c Jacob was abducted in his driveway, right? They have to have more....
 
I am so hoping that someone who knows something has spilled the beans or led LE to a certain direction.
 
I am so hoping that someone who knows something has spilled the beans or led LE to a certain direction.

One article I read just this morning states that the reason for the search warrants is that about 2 years ago some young officers were assigned to the case, and took a fresh look at things -- apparently it was because of them that the case progressed to the warrants and search executed recently. With that said, it doesn't sound as though someone came forward, or that new information has been given to LE. The article went on to note that the new officers had a "hunch". Again, if I find the article, I'll link it, but the "hunch" and info about new officers is directly from there.
 
One article I read just this morning states that the reason for the search warrants is that about 2 years ago some young officers were assigned to the case, and took a fresh look at things -- apparently it was because of them that the case progressed to the warrants and search executed recently. With that said, it doesn't sound as though someone came forward, or that new information has been given to LE. The article went on to note that the new officers had a "hunch". Again, if I find the article, I'll link it, but the "hunch" and info about new officers is directly from there.

I read that, but it just seems way too weak for sealed warrants especially identifying what they are looking for.
 
One article I read just this morning states that the reason for the search warrants is that about 2 years ago some young officers were assigned to the case, and took a fresh look at things -- apparently it was because of them that the case progressed to the warrants and search executed recently. With that said, it doesn't sound as though someone came forward, or that new information has been given to LE. The article went on to note that the new officers had a "hunch". Again, if I find the article, I'll link it, but the "hunch" and info about new officers is directly from there.

I did not know that the reasons for a search warrant can be concealed from property owners.

I also didn't know that a hunch was a good reason for a search warrant. Doesn't something specific need to be named?
 
I wonder if DNA results from the Cold Spring abduction had any role in the investigation of the farm despite the statute of limitations (because it's obvious the two are related). Maybe LE needed time to find a legal way to connect the two and that was perhaps used as a reason to search the Rassier farm?
Also, I think the dogs probably found something. I don't think LE would be doing all of this without real evidence and I like to think the "items" found are indeed real evidence (hence all the secrecy).
 
Wonder why DR or his parents haven't said what LE took from their property in addition to the truckloads of dirt.

Does a search warrant need to be specific, or can items found along with a search warrant be used in a criminal case?

Would a separate warrant be needed for outside and inside the house? I'm assuming the warrant included the house. How would LE know after 21 yrs what was in the house?
 
Wonder why DR or his parents haven't said what LE took from their property in addition to the truckloads of dirt.

Does a search warrant need to be specific, or can items found along with a search warrant be used in a criminal case?

Would a separate warrant be needed for outside and inside the house? I'm assuming the warrant included the house. How would LE know after 21 yrs what was in the house?

no, LE can only take what is on the warrant.

That makes me wonder if there isn't some info from someone in the know.
 
Can you even imagine what Patty has been going through all of these years? Here is woman who has had to hold it together for the rest of the family while thinking about what has happened to her son all of these years. And with all of that garbage happening at that abbey nearby. I am sick of it, and I know a lot of you are as well. What is wrong with the majority of the people there? They are denial is all I can see.
 
Can you even imagine what Patty has been going through all of these years? Here is woman who has had to hold it together for the rest of the family while thinking about what has happened to her son all of these years. And with all of that garbage happening at that abbey nearby. I am sick of it, and I know a lot of you are as well. What is wrong with the majority of the people there? They are denial is all I can see.

When you mention denial, are you referring to DR or to the abbey? I'm with you when you mention the abbey. I've always felt the case could be solved by investigating more there. Cripes. The abbey knows they had pedophiles. The media has done stories on everything but the abbey and what monks were doing that night.
 
Here's the post from earlier on WS stating why the search warrants (4 of them) were sealed (and the sheriff says in the article it has to be more than a hunch.):

From one of my earlier posts...
I found this explanation of why the warrant was sealed on this website:

"In the Jacob Wetterling case the warrant is sealed, so even the property owners can't see the full justification for the search."

http://wcco.com/local/when.police.search.2.1792751.html
 
Here's the post from earlier on WS stating why the search warrants (4 of them) were sealed (and the sheriff says in the article it has to be more than a hunch.):

From one of my earlier posts...
I found this explanation of why the warrant was sealed on this website:

"In the Jacob Wetterling case the warrant is sealed, so even the property owners can't see the full justification for the search."

http://wcco.com/local/when.police.search.2.1792751.html

Thanks. I found it rather frightening that LE can use a search warrant on a person's property w/o telling them why they were searching the property. I suppose it legal, since it's being done, but it does seem like an invasion of privacy.

Back to my original questions. Does anyone know if the house was searched? We've heard two new investigators had a hunch, which is the reason for the search warrants. How, after 21 yrs, would investigators know enough about what was inside buildings or the house to be specific enough to get a search warrant? Again, how many search warrants are actually denied? (My guess is not very many.)
 
I wonder if DR has a sound proff room in the parents house where he practices his trumpet?
 
I was thinking about DR and working this fall.

No way, unless he is cleared, will he be in a job that has student contact.

It is for his protection as well as the school's.

He is a prime candidate for students saying he did something inappropriate.

In the case of a teacher, you are removed from your job while the allegations are investigated.

The school cannot afford the liability and neither can DR.

He will be placed in some kind of non-teaching position or will be on leave with pay, unless he is named a suspect.

Then he probably will be on leave without pay.
 
I did not know that the reasons for a search warrant can be concealed from property owners.

I also didn't know that a hunch was a good reason for a search warrant. Doesn't something specific need to be named?

Yes they have to search for something specific, however, in order to obtain the warrant, they only have to note why they believe the items could be found in a given location. With that said, they could have developed a plausible theory as to what happened that night, and presented it to a judge as part of their affadavit in support of a warrant (this might be termed differently in the USA, but in Ontario, this is what a CAS worker needs to complete when applying for a warrant to apprehend or return a child to a place of safety). This outlines the reason the police are involved, the circumstances to date, and the reason why the CAS worker (in this case LE) believe items are likely to be found in a given location if searched.

I'm not a criminal lawyer or anything, so the above explanation is solely based on my experience as a child protection worker in Ontario, and the resulting experience in court and with judges, lawyers and justice of the peace.
 
Thanks. I found it rather frightening that LE can use a search warrant on a person's property w/o telling them why they were searching the property. I suppose it legal, since it's being done, but it does seem like an invasion of privacy.

Back to my original questions. Does anyone know if the house was searched? We've heard two new investigators had a hunch, which is the reason for the search warrants. How, after 21 yrs, would investigators know enough about what was inside buildings or the house to be specific enough to get a search warrant? Again, how many search warrants are actually denied? (My guess is not very many.)

I think its entirely likely that new officers had a "hunch"! Often times we look at information with fresh eyes, and absorb information that was missed the first time around! Consider your favorite novel -- the best you ever read... and what you got out of it the first time reading it... if you go back and think about it now, have your thoughts changed regarding any part of the story or the characters? Probably because you've added new life experience to your points of reference. Now consider your spouse, best friend or anyone else reading that same book years later -- what might they get out of it? What is their perspective on the book, the story, the characters? Could be different from your interpretation and they may have points to consider which you'd never thought of.

How many people viewing the same set of circumstances at the same time all come away with different interpretations of events? Happens all the time to CAS workers -- its highly subjective as is police work. Two officers looking at all the info might come up with a theory or two and focus on it for whatever reason... and they're guided by their theories... but now years later another officer with different views on matters begins to examine it, and like the readers of a book, comes away with a totally different view, or is able to add critical pieces based on his own experience to what might have happened that night -- makes sense to me!!

As for warrants -- they are OFTEN denied. I've had first hand experience in the courts trying to obtain them, and its a pain in the butt, hit and miss experience.
 
I was thinking about DR and working this fall.

No way, unless he is cleared, will he be in a job that has student contact.

It is for his protection as well as the school's.

He is a prime candidate for students saying he did something inappropriate.

In the case of a teacher, you are removed from your job while the allegations are investigated.

The school cannot afford the liability and neither can DR.

He will be placed in some kind of non-teaching position or will be on leave with pay, unless he is named a suspect.

Then he probably will be on leave without pay.

There's no way he could be put on leave w/o pay. There is a teacher's union there. I agree that he could be assigned a non-teaching job. What would a band non-teacher do - good question if I say so myself.
 
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